US accepts Pakistan as a responsible nuclear state.

[FreekiN]

HURRAY!

 

[TechLahore]

Oh come on. This is your worst phase. There was nothing worse than this. Pakistans economic growth rate was for 50 years much faster than India, but then some ill conceived policies put paid to that growth. And policies are not just economic, but political and strategic too.

Please educate yourself before spouting ill-grounded propaganda.

The last two years put a dent in Pakistan's economic growth rate, and that is already back on the way up. The most recent IMF commentary indicates that Pakistan is headed back to growth in the 8% range in the near future. Minus these past two years, we've average over 7% growth since 2000. If "ill-conceived" policies result in 7% growth, then I say keep them going!

The recent WoT operations in SWA/Swat cost us about 5% of GDP and despite this we grew at 2+%. In real terms, subtracting the cost of the war, our economic growth was 7+% even in the recent past. Now that the operations against foreign funded militants have subsided and border areas have been cleared out, the cost of this action will diminish. By applying basic math and looking at the most recent economic data (Inflation down to 10%, Large Scale Manufacturing growing, sharp growth rate increase expected for 2010, trade imbalance diminished, forex reserves growing) you can easily see that things are actually looking pretty good for Pakistan's economy.

But that would require you to be honest, rational and unbiased.

 

[TechLahore]

US being the sole super power has to be got on board to get a deal. Until you don't sign with them, you can't go to the NSG for a waiver on regulations. Otherwise you have to sign the NPT. Which means give up nuke weapons and roll back weapons program and open all reactors to international inspectors.

Once india sealed the deal with the US, it then cut deals with the french and russians. It will now get fuel from the members of NSG. Even then australia has decided not to give uranium to india. So there you go.

1. The US is not the sole superpower. You might be the only one that doesn't consider China a superpower - both militarily and economically - but that doesn't mean the rest of the world doesn't.

2. NSG or no NSG, China has been constantly supplying Pakistan with nuclear reactors. There are two more under construction now and several earlier projects are already in operation. According to FAS, the Khushab facility has a mostly military purpose but yet Pakistan was able to get that going AND have the recognition extended to it that is the subject of this thread. I only see Nuclear cooperation with China increasing in future, and so far there is nothing we've required from the Chinese that they have not been willing to give.

3. Even in the absence of this latest recognition of ground realities, in an era when there was a lot of external pressure on Pakistan to halt its nuclear development (pre-1998), the French had agreed to supply a reactor. That deal was derailed because of a change in Government in Pakistan, however it indicates that the French are always ready and willing to supply nuclear technology in exchange for $$s. Even though most of the West was up in arms, who helped Iraq with their reactor?

Now, I don't believe Pakistan should go to the French since the commercial terms available from China really can't be matched elsewhere. But that said, my point is to demonstrate that there are multiple sources of advanced nuclear technology available to Pakistan. The reason we keep making noises about getting a "deal" from the US is due to a matter of principle, not a burning need.

 

[Yusuf]

First of all where is the propaganda in my post?

Russia has been building a reactor in India. but then thats not the point. We need a whole lot of fuel. So we had to cut the nuke deal with the US and put up with the 123 agreement and the Hyde act. But we need the energy so we had to find a middle ground.
Once India is able to master completely the thorium based reactors, then we will not need any of the western fuel. India has a shortage of uranium but a lot of thorium. Russia so far built the reactor but gave no fuel. We managed on our own. Tarapur reactor is running below capacity for want of fuel.

China has built the Chashma reactor, but the fuel for it is coming from Kahuta. And there is a limit to how much you can enrich there and also what about uranium? whats the reserves Pakistan has? A nuke deal will give Pakistan access to nuke fuel. In spite of the nuke deal India has got, Autralia has refused uranium to India and asked to sign NPT before it does. So thats how difficult it is to get nuke fuel.

 

[Justin Joseph]

Alrite they are not happy with us. They dont trust us. They wont give us the Nuclear deal. If thats what you think fine with me.
But I think everything have its time. According to peoples thinking we were suppose to be divided in 6 parts by now. But we are here in one part. we still have our nukes. And who knows we get the nuclear deal as well.

We've recovered from worse situation. This is nothing. We can deal with circumstances far worse than this.
Regards.

Forget what people think of pakistan, if soneone think pakisatn will break into 6 why care?

Many were assuming India will break into many but we are still one and remain we have also faced worst of crisis, that too without continues aid and support of biggest and powerful nation.

You should stick to the topic, and its not confirmed by Washington or any big news media so why Pakistan's biggest newspaper flashes a fake news?

 

[Justin Joseph]

1. The US has never talked about a Crusade; George Bush, in his usually illiterate manner, used that word and got a lot of crap for it. I doubt he understands the historical context of the Crusades.

2. Saudi Arabia is also a "declared Islamic Republic" as is the UAE. Any doubts on whether the US is friendly towards them? It is not Islam or Christianity, but real politik that influences relationships between states.

3. The analogy of India/Russia is not Pakistan/America, but Pakistan/China. Which of these two relationships do you think is stronger? Please be honest... at least to yourself.

sir,

1. The Saudi Arabia is the biggest producer of Oil in this planet earth. And also UAE a major producer and with a vital port. So USA is dependent on them and they are minting mashine for USA as they have parked their huge money with USA. But what about Pakistan, what u can offer USA in return Oil or Money?

2.There is nothing called "real politik" in this world, each and every relationship is based on need, money and Convenience.


Till now pakistan got US support for countering India which they think was under Russian influence.

But now USA need India more than India need USA as a we have a huge consumer market, counter to china, to sell USA's weapons, to stop India from being with Russia, etc. etc.

so please also apply ur advise of being honest to ur self.

thanks

 

[ameer219]

1. The Saudi Arabia is the biggest producer of Oil in this planet earth. And also UAE a major producer and with a vital port. So USA is dependent on them and they are minting mashine for USA as they have parked their huge money with USA. But what about Pakistan, what u can offer USA in return Oil or Money?

Sir, its not just about Money and Oil. Its about influence.

USA knows it needs Pakistan to cooperate with it on WoT. In return, it could help rebuild Pakistan in other ways. For example, it remove trade sanctions against Pakistan. But Pakistan has already learnt their lesson that USA is not trustworthy especially after Afghan war.

If Saudi Arabia and UAE is not enough. What about Turkey. Usa have good relationship with Turkey, and Turkey is currently operating a large fleet of F-16. Why would USA be friendly to them. Thus this factor comes into play, INFLUENCE.

 

[TechLahore]

sir,

1. The Saudi Arabia is the biggest producer of Oil in this planet earth. And also UAE a major producer and with a vital port. So USA is dependent on them and they are minting mashine for USA as they have parked their huge money with USA. But what about Pakistan, what u can offer USA in return Oil or Money?

If you believe oil is the only item of interest to the US, then you are simplistic in your view. Pakistan lies at the heart of one of the most important energy corridors in the world... among other things.

But without providing you with a list of reasons for Pakistan's strategic importance, let me just say that you are better served taking your case up with the USG. Here is there stance on the importance of Pakistan to their calculus:

(President Barack Obama's senior military adviser)has made strengthening 'U.S. military relationship with Pakistan a top priority'

Pakistan ? United States relations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2.There is nothing called "real politik" in this world, each and every relationship is based on need, money and Convenience.

Perhaps you are not familiar with this term. Please read the following:

Realpolitik - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

3. Till now pakistan got US support for countering India which they think was under Russian influence.

But now USA need India more than India need USA as a we have a huge consumer market, counter to china, to sell USA's weapons, to stop India from being with Russia, etc. etc.

The US never counted on Indian involvement in an actual shooting war as part of its cold war calculus. You would have seen drastically different force dispositions during that period if this were the case.

There are numerous reasons for the alliance between the US and Pakistan. A big factor, frankly, was the fact that most US leaders hated the guts of Indian politicians/leaders. Here are some examples:

John Foster Dulles (Eisenhower's Sec of State) calls Nehru immoral:

St. Petersburg Times - Google News Archive Search

"Kennedy found Nehru "brooding," "stoical," and "arrogant," and termed the Indian prime minister's visit as the "worst state visit I ever had.""

The News International - No. 1 English Newspaper from Pakistan - Saturday, March 06, 2010

Nixon wondered if he was "too easy on that goddamn woman when she was here".
...
Nixon agreed at one point with Kissinger that he should have probably "brutalised" her and followed up by threatening: "But let me tell you she is going to pay. She is going to pay."

'This woman suckered us', said Nixon of Indira Gandhi | Siasat

"We slobbered over this old witch [Indira]" - "The Indians are bastards anyway" - President Nixon

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Nixon's dislike of 'witch' Indira

Kissinger: Indians are "devious" and "bastards". Indira Gandhi is a "bi t ch"

Nixon-Kissinger invectives against Indira Gandhi,India and the World, News Analysis, India News Online

So now you can see that there was personal animosity between almost all the American governments from Eisenhower, through Kennedy, Nixon etc. and the Indian leadership.

Pakistan has always been able to hold more than its own on the diplomatic front viz India. The relative importance of the relationship with the US may change as China emerges as the dominant global player - but then again - we enjoy an even stronger and ever-green relationship with them.

 

[Parashuram1]

If this indeed means that Pakistan has cleared the safety test, then congratulations to Pakistani members. In today's chaotic world, it is very important to keep one's nuclear assets safe.

But I don't understand why the United States needs to specifically recognize you as a declared nuclear power. Because whether they accept or not, Pakistan has nuclear weapons and that is not imagination.

I believe that unless there is a nuclear deal or a permanent membership offer in the pipeline, American recognition serves little purpose. I would be glad if Pakistani members can assist me on finding news about any such upcoming deals.

 

[Nomad]

WASHINGTON: The Obama administration has implicitly accepted Pakistan’s status as a declared nuclear weapons state, countering conspiracy theories that the United States is secretly plotting to seize the country’s nuclear assets, says a US media report.

If I am not mistaken there is an "implicit acceptance" of Pakistan's status as a "declared nuclear weapons state". When you detonate atomic weapons, aren't you declaring yourself to be a nuclear weapon state?

I see nothing that US accepts Pakistan as a "responsible nuclear state" as this thread suggests.

 

[SMIQBAL]

I would like to ask you guys...............

From the very begining since 1965 and than in 1973 the Pakistan nuclear programme was based on its own fundings. No other state or any international monetary unit had shared a single penny.
These were concerted efforts of our armed forces and our rulers who were keen to have unclear assets as a detterence and now Pakistan is having vital nuclear assets. This is deterrance for any other state who may start any adventure against Pakistan, it shall be a mis-adventure.
Pakistan nuclear assets with latest missisle tech are enough and there is no immediate need of its expansion. If there be any requirement Pakistan is much capable to meet financial requirements.
SMIQBAL.

 

[SMIQBAL]

Maleeha Lodhi, Pakistan’s former ambassador to US, said that America’s ‘explicit recognition’ could be useful “only if stops such propaganda otherwise Pakistan is already a nuclear weapons state, with or without America’s recognition”.

She suggested that instead of stopping at the recognition, the Obama administration should negotiate a nuclear deal with Pakistan, as it did with India.

This is the mouthpiece as well as common thinking of Pakistanis.

Pakistan is a nuclear state. It is an admitted fact and one can take judicial notice of it mean sun rises in the east.Earlier propaganda leashed out in western and US press that Pakistan nukes are not safe had died its natural death. Paksitan is a responsible state what we can assure to world that we shall not use our nukes first but we shall not hesitate to reply in a like manner. This fact is getting recognition from US and this is highly welcomed. Highly appreicated. This recognition is for India and Israel to worry. A balance of power in south asia.
SMIQBAL.

 

[alirulesall123]

Please educate yourself before spouting ill-grounded propaganda.

The last two years put a dent in Pakistan's economic growth rate, and that is already back on the way up. The most recent IMF commentary indicates that Pakistan is headed back to growth in the 8% range in the near future. Minus these past two years, we've average over 7% growth since 2000. If "ill-conceived" policies result in 7% growth, then I say keep them going!

The recent WoT operations in SWA/Swat cost us about 5% of GDP and despite this we grew at 2+%. In real terms, subtracting the cost of the war, our economic growth was 7+% even in the recent past. Now that the operations against foreign funded militants have subsided and border areas have been cleared out, the cost of this action will diminish. By applying basic math and looking at the most recent economic data (Inflation down to 10%, Large Scale Manufacturing growing, sharp growth rate increase expected for 2010, trade imbalance diminished, forex reserves growing) you can easily see that things are actually looking pretty good for Pakistan's economy.

But that would require you to be honest, rational and unbiased.

Care to give me any data to back up your claims? Perhaps some data on Pakistan's "increased" large scale manufacturing?

 

[Yusuf]

I would like to ask you guys...............

From the very begining since 1965 and than in 1973 the Pakistan nuclear programme was based on its own fundings. No other state or any international monetary unit had shared a single penny.
These were concerted efforts of our armed forces and our rulers who were keen to have unclear assets as a detterence and now Pakistan is having vital nuclear assets. This is deterrance for any other state who may start any adventure against Pakistan, it shall be a mis-adventure.
Pakistan nuclear assets with latest missisle tech are enough and there is no immediate need of its expansion. If there be any requirement Pakistan is much capable to meet financial requirements.
SMIQBAL.

There is a difference between military and civilian. If you have all the resources in the world to go about your business of nuke plants, then why are you running to the US for a deal?

India too has its own weapons program but needs the nuke deal. It needs the latest tech for power generation and the fuel for it. And that is not the same as acquiring nuclear weapon. Even a 5-10KT nuke is a deterrent and even NK managed that. Controlling it and converting it to power is a whole new ball game and the west has the best tech in that. You cannot run a substandard nuke power plant as your own civilians will be at risk.

So stop the bravado about you being able to manage everything.

 

[Yusuf]

If I am not mistaken there is an "implicit acceptance" of Pakistan's status as a "declared nuclear weapons state". When you detonate atomic weapons, aren't you declaring yourself to be a nuclear weapon state?

I see nothing that US accepts Pakistan as a "responsible nuclear state" as this thread suggests.

Actually the thread started with the title "declared" nuke power. It was changed to "responsible" by those responsible.