Urdu was enforced on us, says Rabbani

[xairhossi]

They are around.

What's more interesting is that Punjabis are shifting to Urdu at a rapid rate, younger educated generation specifically. And the later sentence you stated is more common amongst those Punjabis, that I can agree.

Maids (from many different parts of Punjab) these days prefer to speak this latest cannibalised Urdu than Punjabi. Interesting trend nonetheless.

What is cannabalised Urdu?

 

[Luffy 500]

Only, only in in the Muslim world would one find politicians - who tend to be mostly ethnic nationalist and secular - uttering politically divisive rhetoric. This is one of those things these secular nationalist have learned from their colonial masters. And the most sad aspect here is that these nationalists fight over language - which is something that evolves with time and simply do NOT disappear until or unless that lingual group is subject to genocide and ethnic cleansing eg - the native americans and the spanish inquisition in South America.

Regional languages do NOT become obsolete Just by putting a lingual-franca in nationally dominant position though this is definitely NOT conducive to national unity. What's needed is cultural & lingual pluralism and tolerance and even if that's not prevalent, a deprived lingual minority should wait & be patient rather than calling for disunity. That's the islamic way. Things change for the better with time if there's patience. The Bengalis cried and made a big (based on some legitimate grounds) fuss over language in 1952 but even if they did NOT do that, I doubt whether a rich language like Bengali could ever have been marginalized. Over time it would have gained prominence in the federation or at the very least would have gained similar standing as Tamil & Bengali has in India. Now the upcoming generation of BD kids, thanks to cable TV, can speak fluent hindi. 20 years from now Hindi words would be part & parcel of the bengali vernacular - nothing inherently wrong with that. But the question is what was the point of creating all that fuss over urdu then? There is hardly any difference between conversational Urdu & hindi. Languages evolve with time and so would PAK regional languages with or without the lingua franca Urdu.


Take example of some western & eastern countries:
- Switzerland has 4 official languages - German, French, Italian and Romansh.
- In india Tamils can hardly speak in Hindi and even popular children shows are dubbed in Indian regional languages but that is NOT preventing tamilians or other regional groups to positively contribute to the Indian state.
- One should check out Canada and some of their election debates. Their politicians switch back & forth in french & english as if its child's play.

 

[Verve]

and who are you? I mean which ethnic group you belong..

so Sindhi, Baluch, Pashtun and Mohajir in Karachi speak salees urdu, i was expecting more serious reply from you.. 2nd i am 3rd gen Karachiite not the one who come recently here. dont teach me about urdu speakers, i have spend all my life among them..

3rd those gutkha khor biharis or UPian mechanic and KMC's bhangi from urdu speaking community are no different then those saraiki maids..

I was just highlighting a trend that's in Punjab since last 10-15 years.

And not teaching you anything. Your truth can be different from my truth and that's fine. What I see is a trend of many, especially in Punjab who are from Punjabi speaking families/elders, taking up Urdu as their preferred language. I was raised speaking Punjabi but my youngest brother speaks only Urdu. He fully understands Punjabi but won't speak and we do not encourage him either. He understands and that's all that matters.

I know a few families in Karachi and their Urdu is just fine. English mix more than the Bollywood stuff. One is 'muhajir' (i don't like using that classification) father and Sindhi mother mix, and children who are my age group both speak Urdu and Sindhi very well.

As for my ethnicity, grandparents from both sides born in Srinagar and next 3 generations born in Punjab.

 

[Reichsmarschall]

Istesna,jamhoriyat,qomi waqar,bad unwano,amriyat e.t.c


He is a a suporter of Altaf Hussain what else do youvexpect he was the only Pakistani on pdf strictly opposed to Indian content ban and had most butthurt over Khi ops

these traitors should be permanently banned

 

[Max]

I was just highlighting a trend that's in Punjab since last 10-15 years.

are we talking about Punjabis who are being told to look themselves inferior? their culture is being banned and they are being told that Punjabi is foul language? we were talking about similarity between sister ganga languages i suppose.

There is reason why we have cultural day for all ethnic groups except Punjabi.

 

[Verve]

Only, only in in the Muslim world would one find politicians - who tend to be mostly ethnic nationalist and secular - uttering politically divisive rhetoric. This is one of those things these secular nationalist have learned from their colonial masters. And the most sad aspect here is that these nationalists fight over language - which is something that evolves with time and simply do NOT disappear until or unless that lingual group is subject to genocide and ethnic cleansing eg - the native americans and the spanish inquisition in South America.

Regional languages do NOT become obsolete Just by putting a lingual-franca in nationally dominant position though this is definitely NOT conducive to national unity. What's needed is cultural & lingual pluralism and tolerance and even if that's not prevalent, a deprived lingual minority should wait & be patient rather than calling for disunity. That's the islamic way. Things change for the better with time if there's patience. The Bengalis cried and made a big (based on some legitimate grounds) fuss over language in 1952 but even if they did NOT do that, I doubt whether a rich language like Bengali could ever have been marginalized. Over time it would have gained prominence in the federation or at the very least would have gained similar standing as Tamil & Bengali has in India. Now the upcoming generation of BD kids, thanks to cable TV, can speak fluent hindi. 20 years from now Hindi words would be part & parcel of the bengali vernacular - nothing inherently wrong with that. But the question is what was the point of creating all that fuss over urdu then? There is hardly any difference between conversational Urdu & hindi. Languages evolve with time and so would PAK regional languages with or without the lingua franca Urdu.


Take example of some western & eastern countries:
- Switzerland has 4 official languages - German, French, Italian and Romansh.
- In india Tamils can hardly speak in Hindi and even popular children shows are dubbed in Indian regional languages but that is NOT preventing tamilians or other regional groups to positively contribute to the Indian state.
- One should check out Canada and some of their election debates. Their politicians switch back & forth in french & english as if its child's play.

Dominant languages take over eventually and Urdu is the dominant language in Pakistan. English is picking up in the minority that's educating in British education system but Urdu is the one really gaining momentum.

are we talking about Punjabis who are being told to look themselves inferior? their culture is being banned and they are being told that Punjab is foul language? we were talking about similarity between sister ganga languages i suppose.

Not at all. People are shifting to Urdu without such pressure and primarily due to financial considerations. Poor will opt for a language that increases their chances of employment, and we have a large poor population. Urdu facilitates poor to relocate and secure employment in areas where dialect of their mother tongue is not spoken.

As for similarities, do we have enough data to compare the original languages that were confined to gangaland only without any influence of Turks, Persians and Arabs? Sister language yes but two people having a conversation in proper Urdu and proper Sanskrit understand each other fully, without knowing anything of the other's language?

 

[xairhossi]

are we talking about Punjabis who are being told to look themselves inferior? their culture is being banned and they are being told that Punjabi is foul language? we were talking about similarity between sister ganga languages i suppose.

There is reason why we have cultural day for all ethnic groups except Punjabi.

Exactly. Honestly, I have no idea why people are calling Senator Raza Rabbani a traitor for saying this.
This is what he said:
"He added that former senator Nisar Memon was labeled a traitor when he called for Sindhi language education.

The Pakistan People’s Party (PPP) leader stated that Mir Hasil Khan Bizenjo was not allowed to learn Balochi.

The Senate chief stated that Pashto and Punjabi was not allowed to flourish."

I have no idea how people here are accusing his statement to be anti-army anti-Pakistan or whatever. What next? People are supposed to be prove their patriotism by jumping in the Ganga River?

As for similarities, do we have enough data to compare the original languages that were confined to gangaland only without any influence of Turks, Persians and Arabs? Sister language yes but two people having a conversation in proper Urdu and proper Sanskrit understand each other fully, without knowing anything of the other's language?

Arabs and Persians had no contribution to the developement of Hindustani/Urdu formed in the Cow Belt. Only their language did which was carried by various Central Asian Turkic rulers while Turkic (not Turkish) words are very rare in Urdu.

No one speaks Sanskrit in India, like no one speaks Latin, its an ancient language. The language of Uttar Pradesh and Bihar like Hindustani/Hindi, Khariboli etc. have little Farsi or Arabic loanwords and are pretty much like the casual Urdu spoken in Pakistan.

 

[Verve]

Exactly. Honestly, I have no idea why people are calling Senator Raza Rabbani a traitor for saying this.
This is what he said:
"He added that former senator Nisar Memon was labeled a traitor when he called for Sindhi language education.

The Pakistan People’s Party (PPP) leader stated that Mir Hasil Khan Bizenjo was not allowed to learn Balochi.

The Senate chief stated that Pashto and Punjabi was not allowed to flourish."

I have no idea how people here are accusing his statement to be anti-army anti-Pakistan or whatever.

China is bigger in every way yet the enforced schooling language is Mandarin. Has that been an issue for them?

So when a prominent politician starts talking nonsense like this, he should not be encouraged. Sindh is part of Pakistan, not some country, and should follow the core education in national language. At district level, schools should decide which additional languages they want to offer.

 

[Max]

As for similarities, do we have enough data to compare the original languages that were confined to gangaland only without any influence of Turks, Persians and Arabs?

it was called Khari boli of gangaland, Turkic or farsi are not our ancestors, we are Sindhi, Punjabi, Pashtun, Baluch or urdu speaking.

Sister language yes but two people having a conversation in proper Urdu and proper Sanskrit understand each other fully, without knowing anything of the other's language?

You mean Hindi and urdu?

 

[xairhossi]

China is bigger in every way yet the enforced schooling language is Mandarin. Has that been an issue for them?

So when a prominent politician starts talking nonsense like this, he should not be encouraged. Sindh is part of Pakistan, not some country, and should follow the core education in national language. At district level, schools should decide which additional languages they want to offer.

Thats all fine until you realize ~90% of China is ethnically Han Chinese who speak the same language and have existed as a united politicial autonomy for thousands of years.

Imposition of Urdu is also a major cause for the low literacy rate and state of education in the country. Now people have to be tri-lingual (native tongue, Urdu and English). It's obvious that children learn much better in their mother tongue. And in many parts of interior Sindh, people dont know much Urdu at all.

 

[Verve]

What's the point anyways? If any of you have personal issues with Urdu, don't speak and don't teach your next generation either. Or leave Pakistan!

It is our national language and one of the uniting forces. How it happened is irrelevant now and replacing it with English or another language would be very damaging to the nation. Hence Rabbani is a snake to stir this up.

 

[xairhossi]

What's the point anyways?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism

If any of you have personal issues with Urdu, don't speak and don't teach your next generation either. Or leave Pakistan!

Quite a logical and convincing argument you have there.

 

[Verve]

Thats all fine until you realize ~90% of China is ethnically Han Chinese who speak the same language and have existed as a united politicial autonomy for thousands of years.

Imposition of Urdu is also a major cause for the low literacy rate and state of education in the country. Now people have to be tri-lingual (native tongue, Urdu and English). It's obvious that children learn much better in their mother tongue. And in many parts of interior Sindh, people dont know much Urdu at all.

Children can easy learn 3-4 languages in the 14 years of formal education (by age of 18). Right education system is the main prerequisite.

Let's suppose if we go by schooling in local languages, then why stop at provincial only? Why not go down to District level? Or is this a provincial issue only!?

Quite a logical and convincing argument you have there.

It is logical. If you have major issues and feel victimised in an area/city/country and you can't have it how you want it or can't find employment, migrate. Simple as that.

Since 18th amendment, what have these so called in power yet persecuted politicians who have had Urdu imposed on them done anything to preserve their languages alongside Urdu?

They will raise such nonsensical issues yet refuse to educate the masses because being vaderas they do not want their slaves to get any education whatsoever.

You mean Hindi and urdu?

Please translate what she is speaking and not the basic lesson she's teaching ... such close sisters aren't they!

 

[Max]

Please translate what she is teaching ... In the sister language of Urdu.

Why are you bringing special cases? why dont you bring common bollywood language which bharati usually speak. i dont want to quote any gangalander but if you want to know you should quote them and ask how many bharati speak like this lady in their experience,

@LA se Karachi How many people speak salees urdu in Karachi in your experience?

literature is different.. no doubt about it.. as i already mention one borrow from sanskrit other borrow from persian.

anyways i am out, as this debate is nothing but waste of time and space.

 

[Verve]

Why are you bringing special cases? why dont you bring common bollywood language which bharati usually speak. i dont want to quote any gangalander but if you want to know you should quote them and ask how many bharati speak like this lady in their experience,

@LA se Karachi How many people speak salees urdu in Karachi in your experience?

literature is different.. no doubt about it.. as i already mention one borrow from sanskrit other borrow from persian.

anyways i am out, as this debate is nothing but waste of time and space.

How many English in UK speak proper English? If you've been here, a person from London (cockney accent) will have a hard time understanding one from New Castle (goerdie accent) as pronouncing ion etc all is very different. It' nonsensical argument that you are putting forward about commonly used language and the actual language.

One could always say that spoken Hindi has been diluted with Urdu over last 100 years, and same for Punjabi.

Urdu is being diluted with English language somewhat by those through English education system, but not with Hindi.

Dominant language takes over, as I've said before.