Upgrading Pakistan’s Special Operations Forces in a cost effective way.

[FuturePAF]

A modern Communications network linking ISR units and adequate vehicles are two one upgrades our units need.

Special forces should be thought of as one option the nation has to counter a threat. Linking operators with ISR resources and each other across the entire battle space will allow them to have better situational awareness in real time. Coordinating an attack to rapidly maximize impact on the enemy and keep our troops safe should be prioritized.

Secondly, our troops need the right vehicles; (such as ATVs to quickly traverse rough terrain, or a couple of little bird helicopters to insert 8 commandos near an enemy’s position and catch them before they have a chance to counter our troops)

I can’t help but think of the attacks in Baluchistan, against our forces, and how best to counter them. QRF troops in helicopters are a must. Backed up with light attack helicopters, assisting troops on the ground rapidly has to be a priority. It will let our troops and the Enemy know that special forces will be there in minutes.

Rebuilding the Cobra helicopters or procuring new WZ-19 and giving them to the commandos should really be considered. Procuring transport helicopters via excess defense articles clause from the US should also be considered, along with thousands of MRAPs. Our troops in general should not be patrolling in Toyotas, when the threat of mines is real. The UAE bought over 4500 MRAPs recently for only $556 million. If we could get a similar number for a similar price we could fully equip all our special forces and the entire frontier corps with MRAPs. In times of war, they could be shifted to what ever front they are needed and quickly deploy commandos or anti-tank crews before enemy forces can move their armor deep into our territory.

 

[Metal 0-1]

How about getting sufficient money by getting Pakistanis to pay their taxes?

Sounds good...

Also cut the pays...

 

[GriffinsRule]

Sounds good...

Also cut the pays...

But they all just got a 20% pay raise lol

 

[Metal 0-1]

such as ATVs to quickly traverse rough terrain, or a couple of little bird helicopters to insert 8 commandos near an enemy’s position and catch them before they have a chance to counter our troops

How about we insert ATVs and Commandos at same time from Heavy lift helicopters. We can also do this thing in water.

Probably the best insertion you'll ever see.

Extraction is the same way as insertion. At 1:18

HALO insertion with boats. Bonus Scene at 1:58

For the vehicles there is need for ATVs. Best option will be using our Land Rover Defenders like British Special Forces do with their Land Rovers for long range patrols. We can also use our Toyota.

British Special Forces Land Rovers

US Special Forces using Toyota Hilux in Afghaistan

 

[PurpleButcher]

How about we insert ATVs and Commandos at same time from Heavy lift helicopters. We can also do this thing in water.
View attachment 633546

Iran with Chinook ... Interesting

 

[FuturePAF]

How about we insert ATVs and Commandos at same time from Heavy lift helicopters. We can also do this thing in water.
View attachment 633546

Probably the best insertion you'll ever see.

Extraction is the same way as insertion. At 1:18

HALO insertion with boats. Bonus Scene at 1:58

For the vehicles there is need for ATVs. Best option will be using our Land Rover Defenders like British Special Forces do with their Land Rovers for long range patrols. We can also use our Toyota.

British Special Forces Land Rovers

US Special Forces using Toyota Hilux in Afghaistan

We can use the Sea kings for boat insertions and use the Mi-17 to carry commando jeeps as well as ATVs. But we also need little bird type helicopters to insert a small number of commandos in crucial places or when chasing small bands of miscreants. Follow up insertion of more troops via a medium but agile transport like the Black hawk or UH-1Y or Z-20 would be ideal. Covering this force would need to be a modern light attack helicopter like the WZ-19 which would protect an Landing Zone and support troops with covering fire as they assault a target. The WZ-19 with it high mounted EO/IR or MMW radar above the rotors could act as a scout and allow the troops to have real time situational awareness before they hit the target. Drones flying high overhead would also be needed to provide a wider picture of the battle space.

if the US had attack helicopters, it may have been able to protect the transport helicopters when they were landing during the battle of Mogadishu

And here is the actual insertion from the command helicopters viewpoint

our commandos could also capture enemy troops alive, for further interrogation, and small commando helicopters protected by attack helicopters could allow that.

 

[Enigma SIG]

Upgrading Pakistan’s Special Operations Forces in a cost effective way.

Pakistani Special Forces are one of the world best SOF in the world. Thanks to its past joint training with UK SAS and SBS and US Special Forces. They adopted their western counterparts training regime and added their own touch simply making it better.

Special Operations not only depend upon specially trained operators but also some special gadgets. We see our SOF community is still lagging behind in this regard. Yes budget is main problem. In this article I’ll focus on equipping them in a cost effective way and still providing them with quality gear.

We don’t have to equip them all at same time things will take time. Start by giving gear to Tier 1 units like Zarrar, No.3 Powindah’s Cdo. Batt. and Musa Coy. Naval and Air Force components are our small spear heads so we can equip them all.

*All the equipment will be low in price but good in quality and reliability. (Some equipment is pricey but not too much)

Starting off,

1. Helmets.

We know FAST helmets are being used now in Pakistan as well. But still we need to do something about old PASGT helmets used by Army SSG. They deserve better. We can start off by providing them all with FAST high cut helmets. These helmets also need reasonable upgrades.

View attachment 633417


These above Helmet setups are being used by Professionals around the world.

MICH helmet also allows couple of neat setups.

View attachment 633418

For this purpose:

1: 3M Comtac III peltor Two way (Protection + Communication) headset. Mount to helmet if not using helmet wear them with headbands. (600$)

2: IR Strobes for IFF or Distress or Marking positions. (You can through older MS2000 strobes towards enemy because of they are strong) (100$)

3: Counter Weights OR Battery boxes (For Powering NVGs) to balance out weight of NVG so that neck strain is reduced.

4: Use a white flashlight if you want.


2. NVGs/ NODs

For a long time our armed forces using single tube PVS-14s. No its time to move on to Dual tube night visions which provide wide field of view than looking through single tube. PVS-15 is expensive like 12,000$. As I promised cost effective Just buy more PVS-14s (Cost 3,000$ Aprrox Per unit) and bridge them into two. That’ll be around 7000$.

View attachment 633419

3. Optics (For Guns)


We do have optics like Aimpoints and EO-Techs but those are for short range battles. After 200 yard you literally can’t ID bullet impact. What if we want to shoot at like 500/600yard? Aimpoints don’t work. Trijicon ACOGs are expensive. So we want a affordable optic that is Bushnell Optics, Drop Zone Reticle Riflescope with Target Turrets, Matte Black, 1-4x/24mm (150$).
View attachment 633420

It’s not a massive scope so don’t worry.

4. Gun Upgrades (Reasonable)
Don’t you think our M-4s are bit old looking don’t have modern accessories which do look cool but they are very helpful.

• First and foremost, Rail extension (Available around 70-100$).

View attachment 633421
View attachment 633422

Yeah they sound crazy so why extended rail system.
Firstly, there’s the way it’s mounted - the KAC M4 RAS uses the original delta ring and front handguard ring, meaning a shift in the rail system (from gripping, rests, barricades) is translated to the barrel, affecting accuracy. Systems like the DD RIS II use a barrel ring or other method at the receiver end which means the handguard does not contact the barrel further down, “free floating” the handguard and resulting in little to no accuracy shift.

Secondly, you have more rail space closer to the muzzle. This allows you to mount accessories not only in such a way that you’re afforded a better grip on the weapon, but also for weapon lights to be mounted so that they cause less shadow (barrel/muzzle blocking light beam and limiting FOV) as well as glare (light bouncing off the barrel/muzzle affecting vision and giving away position).


And most importantly C-Grip OR C-Clamp.

• Better Fore-grips: There are in plenty at affordable prices.

• Suppressors: They come in handy in clearing out buildings/ Hostage Rescue/ Night time operations.(400$).

5. Battle Dress Uniforms:

Yes we are using combat shirts. But still not using padded combat shirts and pants.

View attachment 633423
Combat Shirt and Pants without pads used by Pakistani SSG Commando.


View attachment 633424

With Elbow and shoulder pads. Fire Retardant material. ​

Give this job to POF clothing factory.


6. Combat Boots:

There are plenty of tactical boots available on market at cheaper prices.(200$)

View attachment 633425View attachment 633426​

7. Misc. Equipment:

• GPS (Not for everyone just for team leader)

• Wrist Map Pouches

• SOFLAMS, Laser Designators to pinpoint CAS from rotary or fixed wing aircrafts.

• IR Strobes for IFF by your squad mates and Air Support above your heads. Visible Chem lights and IR Chem Lights for marking positions. Or they can be used to show your location to incoming friendly helicopters. Tie one end with cord and swing around in a circle.

View attachment 633427View attachment 633428View attachment 633429​

View attachment 633431
A Marine Swinging IR Chem. light in Circle to give his position to friendly helicopter.

So pretty much it.

That's a Total of 10,000$ Generously per person.



Note: This article is based on personal views. Some of you are not going to agree with this.
Open for Criticism, Suggestions or Discussion.

• https://www.pewpewtactical.com/affordable-optics-that-wont-break-on-you/
• https://www.envirosafetyproducts.com/hearing-protection-electronic-headsets/peltor-ear-protection-peltor-headsets-earmuffs/peltor-tactical-->headsets-peltor-comtac/peltor-comtac-iii-and-swat-tac-iii-headsets.html
• https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/parts-and-accessories/parts-by-gun-----model/ar-15/handguards-and-rail-systems/drop-in-handguards/
• https://www.range365.com/how-to-buy-suppressor/

Price could go down by 1/2 if locally manufactured.

 

[Esgalduin]

Upgrading Pakistan’s Special Operations Forces in a cost effective way.




1. Helmets.

We know FAST helmets are being used now in Pakistan as well. But still we need to do something about old PASGT helmets used by Army SSG. They deserve better. We can start off by providing them all with FAST high cut helmets. These helmets also need reasonable upgrades.

Just one small correction: we don't use FAST helmets. Those are made by Ops Core. According to my cousin currently serving in the SSG, they use MICH 2001 helmets with rail systems.

 

[Metal 0-1]

We can use the Sea kings for boat insertions and use the Mi-17 to carry commando jeeps as well as ATVs. But we also need little bird type helicopters to insert a small number of commandos in crucial places or when chasing small bands of miscreants. Follow up insertion of more troops via a medium but agile transport like the Black hawk or UH-1Y or Z-20 would be ideal. Covering this force would need to be a modern light attack helicopter like the WZ-19 which would protect an Landing Zone and support troops with covering fire as they assault a target. The WZ-19 with it high mounted EO/IR or MMW radar above the rotors could act as a scout and allow the troops to have real time situational awareness before they hit the target. Drones flying high overhead would also be needed to provide a wider picture of the battle space.

if the US had attack helicopters, it may have been able to protect the transport helicopters when they were landing during the battle of Mogadishu

And here is the actual insertion from the command helicopters viewpoint

our commandos could also capture enemy troops alive, for further interrogation, and small commando helicopters protected by attack helicopters could allow that.

--> Sea Kings are old. They don't offer access doors like modern heavy lift helicopters do. They are not suitable for boat insertion. SEALs can do fast rope from it but its not meant for boat insertions.


--> MI-17s with rear access panels are good. They may not be able to carry them because its a medium lift helicopter.

--> For this purpose Pakistan need Heavy lift helicopters. Like CH-53E Super Stallion OR CH-47 Chinook.

Z-20 Helicopter will be best option for Pakistan. We already have UH-1s with FLIR pods. Packing them with rockets will do the job of softening of targets. These both helicopters are fast enough to give a chase. Funny enough heavy lift CH-53 can also chase vehicles.

JUST For Refrence.

Skils used by GSG-9

Just one small correction: we don't use FAST helmets. Those are made by Ops Core. According to my cousin currently serving in the SSG, they use MICH 2001 helmets with rail systems.

Thanks for correction. Eff me they do use MICH 2001.
Still the offer neat setups.

 

[FuturePAF]

--> Sea Kings are old. They don't offer access doors like modern heavy lift helicopters do. They are not suitable for boat insertion. SEALs can do fast rope from it but its not meant for boat insertions.


--> MI-17s with rear access panels are good. They may not be able to carry them because its a medium lift helicopter.

--> For this purpose Pakistan need Heavy lift helicopters. Like CH-53E Super Stallion OR CH-47 Chinook.

Z-20 Helicopter will be best option for Pakistan. We already have UH-1s with FLIR pods. Packing them with rockets will do the job of softening of targets. These both helicopters are fast enough to give a chase. Funny enough heavy lift CH-53 can also chase vehicles.

JUST For Refrence.

Skils used by GSG-9

Thanks for correction. Eff me they do use MICH 2001.
Still the offer neat setups.

The new Ch-53K costs the US $138 million, export price will be even higher. Perhaps buying some used ex-US marine Ch-46 (sea knight) via excess defense articles maybe a more affordable alternative.

similar to how this Ch-47 Chinook is used to pickup and presumably deploy boats. if we have the money going for the Chinook would be a great option as well. It will probably come down to price.

 

[Metal 0-1]

The new Ch-53K costs the US $138 million, export price will be even higher. Perhaps buying some used ex-US marine Ch-46 (sea knight) via excess defense articles maybe a more affordable alternative.

similar to how this Ch-47 Chinook is used to pickup and presumably deploy boats. if we have the money going for the Chinook would be a great option as well. It will probably come down to price.

CH-46 is very old.. They don't even produce them anymore.

CH-53E Costs only 24 million dollars while a Chinook costs about 38 million dollars

 

[Gentelman]

Yes I am, In this way we have sufficient amount of $$.

I presume you never did a job anywhere that's why you have no idea how things work....

 

[FuturePAF]

CH-46 is very old.. They don't even produce them anymore.

CH-53E Costs only 24 million dollars while a Chinook costs about 38 million dollars

If we can get the CH-53E for that price, the. I agree, it is definitely worth it. Are there still Ch-53e Pakistan can buy? I thought they were just making the Ch-53k now.

maybe you mean buying ex-us marine ch-53e

https://www.defensenews.com/digital...-million-per-helicopter-here-s-the-breakdown/

I would love to see the Pakistani marine commandos land, in mass, this way, riding out in fully “kitted out” commando jeeps

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Toyota crew is more likely to be Russian Spetsnaz in Syria.

How about we insert ATVs and Commandos at same time from Heavy lift helicopters. We can also do this thing in water.
View attachment 633546

Probably the best insertion you'll ever see.

Extraction is the same way as insertion. At 1:18

HALO insertion with boats. Bonus Scene at 1:58

For the vehicles there is need for ATVs. Best option will be using our Land Rover Defenders like British Special Forces do with their Land Rovers for long range patrols. We can also use our Toyota.

British Special Forces Land Rovers

US Special Forces using Toyota Hilux in Afghaistan

BTW this thread moved past the stated goal of providing basic gadgets to big ticket items @Metal 0-1

CH-46 is very old.. They don't even produce them anymore.

CH-53E Costs only 24 million dollars while a Chinook costs about 38 million dollars

US Navy is having tons of problems with CH53. It is maintenance heavy. From last year to now I've heard about at least 2 crashes. US naval wives want these birds retired. Becàuse one squadron commander who went down repeatedly showed concern to his wife that the fleet is too old and unsafe.

CH-46 is very old.. They don't even produce them anymore.

CH-53E Costs only 24 million dollars while a Chinook costs about 38 million dollars

You folks should be discussing ospreys. Ospreys would suit army, navy and airforce. And end up reducing numbers of C295 and C130 required by tri services.

 

[Metal 0-1]

BTW this thread moved past the stated goal of providing basic gadgets to big ticket items @Metal 0-1

US Navy is having tons of problems with CH53. It is maintenance heavy. From last year to now I've heard about at least 2 crashes. US naval wives want these birds retired. Becàuse one squadron commander who went down repeatedly showed concern to his wife that the fleet is too old and unsafe.

Don't worry my next thread will be on vehicles.

Find me better options for heavy lifts except Chinook.

You folks should be discussing ospreys. Ospreys would suit army, navy and airforce. And end up reducing numbers of C295 and C130 required by tri services

Osprey maintenance is pain in the a**. So much moving parts plus expensive. Ground crew is not qualified for these complex machines