***Upgradation of T-72 tanks begins in Jaisalmer***

[Omega007]

My question is that the russian tin cans cost 3.3 milion dollar per tank and the advanced Arjuns cost 3.6 million per tank.So why we can't buy more Arjuns?
Ok,currently PA tanks can be countered by T 90s.But where is the guarentee that they will not buy the Type 99 tanks from china.Now don't say that T 90s can outperform Type 99.That is not possible.
REGARDS....

 

[DarK-LorD]

Some guys who are calling T-90 a tin can needs to get their info right.T-90 with LEDS-150 is better than anything our rivals possess barring the TYPE-99.Arjun is better than Al Khalid but it has some reliability issues due to DRDO.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

The following is a comparison between the T-90S/ Bhishma MBT and the Pakistani Al Khalid. The T-90M, which the Indian Army will be receiving by the year's end is an improved version of the T-90 series with welded turret, V-92S2 engine and ESSA thermal viewer as opposed to the T-90S, which was a simplified export version with cast turret, R-173 radio, 1V528 computer and V-84-1 engine.

Crew

AL-Khalid = 3
T-90S = 3

Combat Weight

Al-Khalid = 48,000 kg
T-90S = 46,500 kg
Engine

Al-Khalid = 1200 horsepower
T-90S = 840 horsepower

Maximum Speed

Al-Khalid = 72 km/hr
T-90S = 65 km/hr

Maximum Range

Al-Khalid = 450 kms
T-90S = 500

Vertical Obstacle

Al-Khalid = 0.85 m
T-90S = 0.85

Fording

Al-Khalid = without preparation 1.4 metres
T-90S = without preparation 1.2 metres

Trench

Al-Khalid = 2.7 m
T-90S = 2.8 m


Armament

Al-Khalid

(main): 1 x 125 mm gun 125mm Smooth Bore, Chrome Plated, Auto fret aged
Circular Carousel Type: (Cassette Type) 22 Rounds / Minute 6-8

FCS/GCS : Type: Image Stabilized (3rd generation director type stabilization), Optics: LASER protected (coaxial): 1 x 7.62 mm MG
(anti-aircraft): 1 x 12.7 mm MG
Smoke grenade dischargers: 2 x 6, can also lay smoke screen by injecting diesel into the exhaust outlets at the rear

GUNNER SIGHT : Type Integrated, Bi-axis Stabilized Day/Night, Tl, LRF
Magnification Dual, 3x & 1 Ox
Field of View 20° & 6°

COMMANDER SIGHT:
Type Panoramic,
Bi-Axis stabilized,

LRF, 2nd Generation IIT
Hunter-Killer Capability
Magnification 7.5x
Field of View 7 . 5
LRF : Type ND YAG
Range200 ~ 5000m
AUTO TRACKER: Tracking Error < 0.1 mils Interfaced with Gunner Day Sight & Tl


T-90S [T-90S information courtesy of Bharat Rakshak]

1 x 125mm 2A46M smoothbore gun with 43 rounds.
...............1 x 12.7mm NSVT anti-aircraft gun with 300 rounds. [1]
...............1 x 7.62mm PKT co-axial machine gun with 2000 rounds.
...............1 x 5.45mm AKS-74 rifle, carried on storage rack, with 300 rounds.[2]

[1] The 12.7mm NSVT, mounted on the commander's contra-rotating copula which can be aimed and fired under complete armour protection, uses the PZU-7 machine gun sight and the 1ETs29 (with vertical stabilization) machine gun FCS (Fire Control System).

[2] The locally-produced 5.56mm INSAS Assault Rifle will likely be used instead.


Smoke Grenade Launchers: Mounted either side of the turret is a bank of six electrically operated 81mm smoke grenade launchers which are in a new low-angle configuration compared to those fitted to earlier Russian MBTs. The quick forming aerosol screening system comprises the four laser radiation sensors (two coarse and two fine receiving heads), the Type 902A Aerosol Forming Grenade Launch System dispensing 81mm 3D17 aerosol grenades and associated controls. The aerosol screening system detects laser illumination, determines its direction and type (laser range-finder or designator), generates warning signals, both audio and visual, and lays in automatic or semi-automatic modes, quick forming aerosol screens within three seconds at a distance of 50 to 80 metres from the tank. In addition, the tank can also lay its own smoke screen by injecting diesel fuel into the exhaust outlet located on the left side of the hull.

The 2A46M smoothbore gun is stabilised (Zhasmin 2E42-4 system) in two axes and is fitted with a thermal sleeve. The gun tube can be replaced without a need for dismantling inside the turret. The gun can fire various ammunition including APFSDS-T (Armour Piercing Fin Stabilised Discarding Sabot - Tracer), HEAT (High Explosive Anti-Tank), HE-FRAG (High Explosive Fragmentation) as well as shrapnel projectiles with time fuzes. In addition it can also fire a special HE-FRAG projectile that can be detonated over the target using the tank's fire-control system. Maximum rate of fire is at 7 rounds per minute. The gun can also fire the 9M119 Refleks-M (NATO: AT-11 Sniper-B) anti-tank guided missile system. The range of the missile is 75 to 5000 metres and takes 14.2 seconds to reach maximum range. The system is intended to engage tanks fitted with ERA (Explosive Reactive Armour) as well as low-flying air targets such as helicopters, at a range of up to 5 km. Hit probability is over 80%. The missile system fires either the 9M119 (3UBK14 weapon system) or the 9M119M (3UBK20 weapon system) missiles which have semi-automatic laser beam riding guidance and a hollow charge warhead. Missile weight is 23.4 kg. The gun's automatic loader will feed both ordnance and missiles.

Self-Protection

The hull and turret are protected by both conventional armour-plating and the latest generation Kontakt-5 ERA which provides protection against APFSDS (Armour Piercing Fin Stabilised Discarding Sabot) and HEAT (High Explosive Anti-Tank) type projectiles. In addition to being fitted to the hull and turret, ERA panels are also fitted either side of the hull front to provide lateral protection to each side of the driver's compartment. The tank also has NBC (nuclear, biological and chemical) protection equipment. The TShU1-7 Shtora-1 countermeasures system is not fitted.

Fire Control & Observation

The T-90S has the 1A45T IFCS (Integrated Fire
Control System) which is automatic, but has a
manual override for the commander. The IFCS
comprises the gunner's day/night fire-control
system, gunner's IR sight or thermal imaging
sight, and commander's day/night sight-
observation system. The fire control system
comprises day sight-rangefinder with missile
guidance channel, armament stabilizer and
ballistic computer. The system is used by the
commander for gun and machine gun fire
control.
Propulsion
The T-90S will be powered by a 1,000 hp V-92S2
four-stroke V-12 diesel engine. This new engine,
fitted with a turbo-supercharger, offers
impressive specific power and specific fuel
consumption characteristics. The tank can carry
up to 1600 litres of fuel in the main, armour
plated fuel tanks and fuel drums. The tank is
provided with a snorkel for deep fording (up to 5
metres of water) with equipment which can be
deployed in 20 minutes. The mechanical
transmission includes primary reduction gear,
two planetary final gearboxes and two planetary
final drives. The running gear features torsion bar
suspension with hydraulic shock absorbers at 1, 2
and 6 road wheel stations and tracks with
rubber-metallic pin hinges.
Miscellaneous Information
A new track has been developed and tested for
the T-90S that not only has a longer life but also
has replaceable rubber pads that can be quickly
removed. Standard equipment includes NBC
protection, fire detection & suppression system,
nose-mounted dozer blade and a deep fording
kit. The tank is fitted with an air conditioning
system for operations in high ambient
temperatures

AKs combat rage is 500 km not 450.
as per wiki n various sources
Weight is 45 tons.
Trench of AK is 3 m.
Al Khalid Main Battle Tank | Military-Today.com

etc etc. Among other mistakes in the article u posted.

On specs AK kills t-90.

My question is that the russian tin cans cost 3.3 milion dollar per tank and the advanced Arjuns cost 3.6 million per tank.So why we can't buy more Arjuns?
Ok,currently PA tanks can be countered by T 90s.But where is the guarentee that they will not buy the Type 99 tanks from china.Now don't say that T 90s can outperform Type 99.That is not possible.
REGARDS....

T-90 was brought by india to counter PAs T-80UD not AK........AK is more advanced thn ur t-90

 

[Zabaniyah]

@Indian members, note that the T-90 model you operate is the downgraded version of the one used by the Russians (they never give out their best).

The MBT-2000 (AKA Al-Khaled) used by Pakistan however, is NOT.

You can honestly say that the Arjun is your premium tank.

P.S: Forget about comparisons between the T-72 vs. AK

 

[Jon Snow]

t 90s is the downgraded version but t 90m is the advanced version

 

[Omega007]

Some guys who are calling T-90 a tin can needs to get their info right.T-90 with LEDS-150 is better than anything our rivals possess barring the TYPE-99.Arjun is better than Al Khalid but it has some reliability issues due to DRDO.

Cut this crap man.The T 90M is a good tank,but all we have is some downgraded T 90S which in their current form can't match the Al khalid.And regarding problems in Arjuns that is history.All the issues have been rectified.Can you prove the otherway?I don't think so.So shut the hell up.Mr zabanya correctly told that T 90S can't match the Al khalids,so all we have are Arjuns.
REGARDS....

 

[bhejafry]

“@Indian members, note that the T-90 model you operate is the downgraded version of the one used by the Russians (they never give out their best)”

The T-90M is a much improved version, and the older T-90S would be just 310 units. We will have 1330 T-90M so the more useful question is – can the T-90M macth AK? So let us compare and examine the statement above

Thermal sights: upgraded in Indian version, uses French Catherine, same as Pakistani
Engines: upgraded to 1000hp in T-90M, inferior to AK’s 1200hp
APS: instead of soft APS Shtora, uses hard-kill LEDS-150 , superior to soft APS on AK
FCS: Russian, comparable or better than AK
ERA: Uses Russian ERA same as domestic version, which is heavier and better than ERA used on AK
Armour: T-90 uses Russian composite armour same as domestic version or Kanchaan, both superior to Chinese/pak composite used on AK
Gun: Russian, better than Chinese gun on AK
Autoloader: Russian, same as on T-80, superior to Chinese T-72 version on AK which is a major weakness for AK

So Engine, FCS, Gun, ERA, Armour are all as good as the domestic version and not downgraded
APS and thermal sights are BETTER than the domestic version

Engine inferior to AK
Gun, APS, FCS, ERA, Armour, Autoloader better on T-90M versus AK

Pretty clear that T-90M is an upgraded version of domestic version and more than a match for AK

P.S. “Forget about comparisons between the T-72 vs. AK”
Who is comparing them? T-72 is the 2nd line tank, equivalent to T-59 for Pakistan. Try comparing T-59/Al Zarrar against upgraded T-72!

 

[Jon Snow]

nice comparison but as far as i know leds 150 is both hard and soft kill....... A big factor in favor of t 90 is also that its battle tested(and proven- being hit by 7 rpg's and still being in action is a considerable feat)

 

[GORKHALI]

Wrong!T90BS is the 310 orginal type ordered by india ,which Featured 1000HP engine ,the subsequent order around 1330units are based on T90M features like 1250HP engine with thales ,elbit and drdo upgradtion like DRDO contributed towards Kanchan armour and Night vision features as earlier kit supplied by elbit failed to withstand Indian summer...

Regards
pandora

 

[Omega007]

“@Indian members, note that the T-90 model you operate is the downgraded version of the one used by the Russians (they never give out their best)”

The T-90M is a much improved version, and the older T-90S would be just 310 units. We will have 1330 T-90M so the more useful question is – can the T-90M macth AK? So let us compare and examine the statement above

Thermal sights: upgraded in Indian version, uses French Catherine, same as Pakistani
Engines: upgraded to 1000hp in T-90M, inferior to AK’s 1200hp
APS: instead of soft APS Shtora, uses hard-kill LEDS-150 , superior to soft APS on AK
FCS: Russian, comparable or better than AK
ERA: Uses Russian ERA same as domestic version, which is heavier and better than ERA used on AK
Armour: T-90 uses Russian composite armour same as domestic version or Kanchaan, both superior to Chinese/pak composite used on AK
Gun: Russian, better than Chinese gun on AK
Autoloader: Russian, same as on T-80, superior to Chinese T-72 version on AK which is a major weakness for AK

So Engine, FCS, Gun, ERA, Armour are all as good as the domestic version and not downgraded
APS and thermal sights are BETTER than the domestic version

Engine inferior to AK
Gun, APS, FCS, ERA, Armour, Autoloader better on T-90M versus AK

Pretty clear that T-90M is an upgraded version of domestic version and more than a match for AK

P.S. “Forget about comparisons between the T-72 vs. AK”
Who is comparing them? T-72 is the 2nd line tank, equivalent to T-59 for Pakistan. Try comparing T-59/Al Zarrar against upgraded T-72!

So it's again proved that the T 90M has a marginal edge over Al khalid and Al khalid I.But Arjuns with its vastly superior armor and gun have a slege hammer that can gring anything PA has to pieces.
REGARDS....

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Thermal sights: upgraded in Indian version, uses French Catherine, same as Pakistani

AK uses sagem n thales.

Engines: upgraded to 1000hp in T-90M, inferior to AK’s 1200hp

True... not to forget trench,fording,weight to power ratio etc......

APS: instead of soft APS Shtora, uses hard-kill LEDS-150 , superior to soft APS on AK

Uses VARTA-1 and HIT Rahbar how is tht inferior?

FCS: Russian, comparable or better than AK

AK uses ukranian-french and HIT.

ERA: Uses Russian ERA same as domestic version, which is heavier and better than ERA used on AK

AK uses lighter,stronger ERA by GIDS ... Which has a whole department for armour r&d.

Armour: T-90 uses Russian composite armour same as domestic version or Kanchaan, both superior to Chinese/pak composite used on AK

HIT made armour one of the best....... probably better thn T-80UD.

Gun: Russian, better than Chinese gun on AK

Earlier AKs used French gun not chinese....new ones r using indegenous HIT made which they claim is better thn the ones we got frm france.

Autoloader: Russian, same as on T-80, superior to Chinese T-72 version on AK which is a major weakness for AK

Chinese never used t-72 ... AK has the an improved n upgraded autoloader better thn our T-80UD which itself is almost similar to T-84....not to forget a european Hunter killer,laser jammers,laser warning systems, firing 2 types of missiles,DU capable..... BMS~!

So Engine, FCS, Gun, ERA, Armour are all as good as the domestic version and not downgraded

Our r indegenous n european top of the line.

APS and thermal sights are BETTER than the domestic version

Thales,sagem n catherines used on AK... superior thn t-90 bhisma.
Engine inferior to AK

Gun, APS, FCS, ERA, Armour, Autoloader better on T-90M versus AK

Pretty clear that T-90M is an upgraded version of domestic version and more than a match for AK

I just tarnished ur arguement.

P.S. “Forget about comparisons between the T-72 vs. AK”
Who is comparing them? T-72 is the 2nd line tank, equivalent to T-59 for Pakistan. Try comparing T-59/Al Zarrar against upgraded T-72!

It has been compared already and it shows AZ superior........ coz AZ is not just an upgrade its a whole new tank...... turret,gun,hunter killer,thales,sagem,catherine,NBC,night visions etc.

So it's again proved that the T 90M has a marginal edge over Al khalid and Al khalid I.But Arjuns with its vastly superior armor and gun have a slege hammer that can gring anything PA has to pieces.
REGARDS....

If wishes were horses.......................

No wonder only 124 arjuns r in service n indian army is buying more t-90s.

 

[Omega007]

AK uses sagem n thales.


True... not to forget trench,fording,weight to power ratio etc......


Uses VARTA-1 and HIT Rahbar how is tht inferior?


AK uses ukranian-french and HIT.


AK uses lighter,stronger ERA by GIDS ... Which has a whole department for armour r&d.


HIT made armour one of the best....... probably better thn T-80UD.



Earlier AKs used French gun not chinese....new ones r using indegenous HIT made which they claim is better thn the ones we got frm france.


Chinese never used t-72 ... AK has the an improved n upgraded autoloader better thn our T-80UD which itself is almost similar to T-84....not to forget a european Hunter killer,laser jammers,laser warning systems, firing 2 types of missiles,DU capable..... BMS~!



Our r indegenous n european top of the line.


Thales,sagem n catherines used on AK... superior thn t-90 bhisma.
Engine inferior to AK


I just tarnished ur arguement.



It has been compared already and it shows AZ superior........ coz AZ is not just an upgrade its a whole new tank...... turret,gun,hunter killer,thales,sagem,catherine,NBC,night visions etc.



If wishes were horses.......................

No wonder only 124 arjuns r in service n indian army is buying more t-90s.

Yeah,currently IA has only 124 mk1s,but last year right after the comparative trials 124 additional mk1s were ordered.Recently,124 sbp version of mk2 have been ordered.So ultimately IA will use 248 mk1s which by number is very close to your 300 Al khalids.By the way Al khalids are no match against Arjun reasons have already been posted.

 

[Omega007]

Hey old man,how your armor tech suddenly became best.Such a thin armor can never withstand a single hit from a longrod FSAPDS T round.
By the way,even back in 1985 the 1st prototype version of Kanchan armor was able to withstand multiple point blanck hits from a T 72 FSAPDS T rounds.Incidentaly Al khalids use 125 mm gun of same version.
REGARDS....

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Yeah,currently IA has only 124 mk1s,but last year right after the comparative trials 124 additional mk1s were ordered.Recently,124 sbp version of mk2 have been ordered.So ultimately IA will use 248 mk1s which by number is very close to your 300 Al khalids.By the way Al khalids are no match against Arjun reasons have already been posted.

Dude u need a reality check....... there r 600 aks in service and all r being upgraded to AK-I status and they can whoop arjuns ..... while AK-II a 1500 hp producing monster is under development.

tech suddenly became best.Such a thin armor can never withstand a single hit from a longrod FSAPDS T round.
By the way,even back in 1985 the 1st prototype version of Kanchan armor was able to withstand multiple point blanck hits from a T 72 FSAPDS T rounds.Incidentaly Al khalids use 125 mm gun of same version.
REGARDS....

Kid can u show a single Pakistani authentic source on the armour of AK? its easy to rant after readin bs frm brat rakshw.

PS-im 21.

 

[Omega007]

Dude u need a reality check....... there r 600 aks in service and all r being upgraded to AK-I status and they can whoop arjuns ..... while AK-II a 1500 hp producing monster is under development.


Kid can u show a single Pakistani authentic source on the armour of AK? its easy to rant after readin bs frm brat rakshw.

PS-im 21.

Oh come on!When last month I asked Taimi Khan he told PA had 300 Al khalids and 150 Al khalid I.He also stated that PA was inducting them in smaller batches due to budgetary issues.And now in one month it suddenly jumps to over 600!Man,it's you who needs a reality check.
By the way,Arjun's frontal armor was 7 inches thick,with 120 mm of alloy made of high hardened steel,Mn and tungsten with smaller amount of glass reinforced plastic and 30 mm thich ceramic alumina tiles in 1985.
You guys are crazy alright.Because when wiki says Type 99 armor can withstand 7 hits from t72 then it is the most authentic.But when same wiki says samething about the kanchan armor it becomes bs.
By the way,we don't need the same number of arjuns for your alkhalids because when a heavy weight colides with a flyweight,flyweight looses 99% of times.
REGARDS....