Updates on F-INSAS program

[he-man]

The INSAS's design is actually quite good. You have a relatively shorter barrel and yet good enough accuracy. But if you don't have the reflex sights and optronics made available to the jawaan then he's hardly going to produce sub-MOA results on the range leave alone the field. ADD to that the QC/QR madness courtesy the OFB.

Not surprised though since this is the same OFB which changed the T-90 barrel production process without consulting the OEM and then BOOM! Thank god the Arjun's barrels were pre-inspected and not produced by the usual suspects ergo despite early teething problems (bound to occur) things settled down after some tweaking.

Whatever rifle is engineered or acquired if the OFB gets the manufacturing job then odds are 5 to 1 that the product will be substandard. I'll give a cookie to anyone who can guess the reason behind these issues.

Many of the F-INSAS's components have been available in country. You've got companies like MKU which provide armoring solutions to the German navy's frigates and CM silos- they produce some quality maal in personal protection and yet till date they have only been allowed to provide some of their lower tier products to the CAPFs. Know of any other Indian company (SME) that has taken up the job of manufacturing NVD Image Intensifier devices at their facility in Kanpur itself or has a AS 9100 certification for aircraft armoring & solutions AND is a registered NATO supplier?

@Kunwar Anurag Rathore Ever shot a 5.56x45mm round? It'll kill the target just fine, has a nasty proclivity to tumble in the target's body cavity too after a center mass shot.

we all know how contracts are given in india.

remember beml tatra episode,,,,,thats uber shamelessness

keep quite else they will ban u

no one can ban he-man

yes they got @sardar1987

but he returned in the form of @he-man to support truth in these testing times

 

[Dillinger]

we all know how contracts are given in india.

remember beml tatra episode,,,,,thats uber shamelessness

That was a different issue altogether, part corruption part legitimate dearth of proper heavy duty four wheel independent suspension back then in TATA's product.

This is a different issue altogether.

Even TATA's offering for the F-INSAS is very decent, as good as the IdZ/v2 (I had the privilege of trying out some components of the latter )- although they'll get through one way or the other.

 

[Lostsoldier]

The INSAS's design is actually quite good. You have a relatively shorter barrel and yet good enough accuracy. But if you don't have the reflex sights and optronics made available to the jawaan then he's hardly going to produce sub-MOA results on the range leave alone the field. ADD to that the QC/QR madness courtesy the OFB.

Not surprised though since this is the same OFB which changed the T-90 barrel production process without consulting the OEM and then BOOM! Thank god the Arjun's barrels were pre-inspected and not produced by the usual suspects ergo despite early teething problems (bound to occur) things settled down after some tweaking.

Whatever rifle is engineered or acquired if the OFB gets the manufacturing job then odds are 5 to 1 that the product will be substandard. I'll give a cookie to anyone who can guess the reason behind these issues.

Many of the F-INSAS's components have been available in country. You've got companies like MKU which provide armoring solutions to the German navy's frigates and CM silos- they produce some quality maal in personal protection and yet till date they have only been allowed to provide some of their lower tier products to the CAPFs. Know of any other Indian company (SME) that has taken up the job of manufacturing NVD Image Intensifier devices at their facility in Kanpur itself or has a AS 9100 certification for aircraft armoring & solutions AND is a registered NATO supplier?

@Kunwar Anurag Rathore Ever shot a 5.56x45mm round? It'll kill the target just fine, has a nasty proclivity to tumble in the target's body cavity too after a center mass shot.

I actually dont have doubt about efficiency and reliability of INSAS. Usualy small variations in small eficiancies dont count in battle field, as not guns, but soldiers fire the bullet when needed. So what important is timely service, and quick rectifications, and molding of guns to suit own soldiers is best India can do, instead of importing expensive guns.

Even Arjun has proved better than T 90, in all aspects, the same Arjun which was ealier failure and called as Arjunk in sarcasm. Most importantly it is Indian made.


But again, I have small doubt, how lethal is one shot of INSAS gun used by army ? Is INSAS design still follows rule of injuring the enemy and not killing him ?

 

[Dillinger]

I actually dont have doubt about efficiency and reliability of INSAS. Usualy small variations in small eficiancies dont count in battle field, as not guns, but soldiers fire the bullet when needed. So what important is timely service, and quick rectifications, and molding of guns to suit own soldiers is best India can do, instead of importing expensive guns.

Even Arjun has proved better than T 90, in all aspects, the same Arjun which was ealier failure and called as Arjunk in sarcasm. Most importantly it is Indian made.


But again, I have small doubt, how lethal is one shot of INSAS gun used by army ? Is INSAS design still follows rule of injuring the enemy and not killing him ?

That "injure not kill" thing is standard OFB level babu's khiyali pulao when caught with the question that the Insas's caliber is "smaller" than the AK-47s. It'll kill just fine- if some aberrant enemy decides to eat a few shots and still doesn't go down then you had better just hit him with the rifle's butt- cave in his skull for good measure. Everything's kosher. OFB's production standards though are not.

 

[Lostsoldier]

guys i support insas in only one term tht is it is indegeneous
there is only one reason for me to support INSAS and other indigenous weapons. Let me show it to you by the means of an example. Lets assume that the total size of Indian economy is Rs 1000 and the cost of an American gun is Rs 100. Therefore, the moment we buy one American gun, the size of our economy will reduce to Rs 900. And as a nation we will become poorer by Rs 100.

Now lets assume that the cost of producing INSAS is also Rs 100. In this case, the Indian government will pay 100 rupees to DRDO, which in turn will use the money in setting up factories in some parts of India. And also in employing more scientists, technicians & labours who could work on the INSAS project. This would create more employment in the country. More employment means more people paying income tax to the government . Thus a part of the money spent by the government would come back to them. Furthermore, for setting up factories they will need to buy bricks, cement, woods etc which will be purchased from some contractors. Even the contractors will buy it from some source and even he will have to employ many people to ensure that the materials reach DRDO on time. This would again increase employment, which would lead to a further increase in the revenue of the government. The government would also earn through sales tax, wealth tax, road tax etc paid by the contractor.

In other words, if we invest in INSAS then the 100 rupees spent by the government would remain in the country itself. It will just move from one hand to the other (from government to DRDO, from DRDO to scientists, labours & contractors and from the scientists, labours and contractors to the government).

 

[he-man]

That was a different issue altogether, part corruption part legitimate dearth of proper heavy duty four wheel independent suspension back then in TATA's product.

This is a different issue altogether.

Even TATA's offering for the F-INSAS is very decent, as good as the IdZ/v2 (I had the privilege of trying out some components of the latter )- although they'll get through one way or the other.

tata must get this contract..................otherwise nothing will ever change for good

 

[Lostsoldier]

That "injure not kill" thing is standard OFB level babu's khiyali pulao when caught with the question that the Insas's caliber is "smaller" than the AK-47s. It'll kill just fine- if some aberrant enemy decides to eat a few shots and still doesn't go down then you had better just hit him with the rifle's butt- cave in his skull for good measure. Everything's kosher. OFB's production standards though are not.

in real war enemy will not come to your face and ask u fead me bullet
trytounderstand m
saying it is good gun
yeah u u have a headshot its obvious it will kill heheh
but it is relatively inferior to other standard riffles used by diffrent respective countries

 

[Dillinger]

in real war enemy will not come to your face and ask u fead me bullet
trytounderstand m
saying it is good gun
yeah u u have a headshot its obvious it will kill heheh
but it is relatively inferior to other standard riffles used by diffrent respective countries

Barrel, caliber, muzzle velocity and hits on target- that's all that matters.

The one thing it does do as well as other rifles is that when the bullet hits the target it kills the target- barring exceptions.

On the other hand if you're not going to provide a RAS and reflex/holographic sights then you're going to have issues hitting beyond 300 meters or so.

Plus production standards, note that most western guns use cold forged barrels- hell some of them even use match grade barrels.

Otherwise if you eat a 5.56x45mm, you WILL end up dead.

 

[Dillinger]

@he-man

Pick one-

 

[he-man]

@he-man

Pick one-

u failed to provide a blinded randomized sample to me

so naturally my bias has kicked in,,,,u get what i mean i think

 

[Sergi]

no one can ban he-man

yes they got @sardar1987

but he returned in the form of @he-man to support truth in these testing times

you just give the mods open invitation to ban you .... Again

Good bye.

 

[Dillinger]

u failed to provide a blinded randomized sample to me

so naturally my bias has kicked in,,,,u get what i mean i think

Just pick one.

 

[he-man]

Barrel, caliber, muzzle velocity and hits on target- that's all that matters.

The one thing it does do as well as other rifles is that when the bullet hits the target it kills the target- barring exceptions.

On the other hand if you're not going to provide a RAS and reflex/holographic sights then you're going to have issues hitting beyond 300 meters or so.

Plus production standards, note that most western guns use cold forged barrels- hell some of them even use match grade barrels.

Otherwise if you eat a 5.56x45mm, you WILL end up dead.

production standards at okb will always remain at the best average,,,u can try but ultimately u will fail

you just give the mods open invitation to ban you .... Again

Good bye.

sorry dude
@WebMaster has given me permission already

i am sorry for ur sadness now

Just pick one.

pls provide a clear pic of lower company,,,,non tata one

the gadgets are not visible

 

[Dillinger]

production standards at okb will always remain at the best average,,,u can try but ultimately u will fail



sorry dude
@WebMaster has given me permission already

i am sorry for ur sadness now

Well for that you had best contact the MOD, ask them shift their babus out of cream posts at the OFB. De-unionize the place, install 8-hour 3 shift practices which prevail in many other companies on the shop floor. Bring in actual management so that it translates to actual quality on the shop-floor. Dis-invest and retain only majority shares..the list of remedies goes on and on.

 

[sms]

man to be truthful insas has problems
Its nozzle gets heated very much
its spring i mean riffle spring gets stuck

So does every rifle... these days INSAS is not the same rifle we had in late 90s

its to long to be used in anti terrorist operations inside houses

Look at other rifles available see table below.....this is a rifle is not that long it can be 750 mm with folding butt.
Also note that people select different weapon for different theater, carbines are made for close combats. That what people uses

and moreover it was made to wound u not to kill you

Thats wrong perception. If AK 47 with 7.67mm round and 700+m/s muzzle velocity the INSAS with 5.56mm with 900+ m/s muzzle velocity is very deadly. One shot in right place at 300+ mtr is a sure kill.