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Update on CPEC and departure of Chinese Ambassador from Islamabad

Pakistan army belongs in the barracks!!! It has no business with Pakistan's growth!!!
It is in the barracks unless you ask them for help to get you in the office ala 2018 elections and doing all the ground-work with the allies.
So let's not play the innocent lamb after having gone along with the establishment to get PTI in the office.
Why did IK's democratic principles not standup then?

Leaving the above aside, you know the reality, which is kind of sad for me personally? I actually liked IK better than the other two parties. But the stance taken by his party, his leaders, his followers and increasingly by him to go after the military has completely turned me off. I am not convinced by even 1% that his approach is helpful to Pakistan. It is actually destabilizing and is entirely selfish.

His politics are leading to an unprecedented hate amongst Pakistanis for each other. In a country already hurt by ethnic strife, sectarianism, this is a death-blow at the hands of one who claims to be an uber-patriot.

Honestly, NS/AAZ, as corrupt and selfish as they are, have never gone down this scorched-earth policy as IK and his band of merry men and women have been on.

This is where IK/PTI have been a complete let down and turn off. Not that they need me on their side as they have a very vocal, loud base, but I hope they take a pause to the Dodo-like walk off the cliff to extinction as a nation state.
 
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Our military is the one who is going to fight the Indians to defend and protect Pakistan. Not PTI fans. IK and his fans should avoid dragging our armed forces into this political mud slinging tamasha.
 
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Agree.
China has no party politics, as we all knew. Pakistan-China relationship are strategic, mature, long term, mutual beneficial and there are huge common interest.

Regardless which government is ruling, China will be there.
I am pretty sure the current government, especially PM Shehbaz Sharif are very familiar with Pakistan-China affair. He was CM of Punjab, CPEC in Punjab goes well.
Good call out. I just hope in the course of our petty domestic politics, all Pakistanis remain clear on the GoP's (any sitting government) all weather relations with China.

Our military is the one who is going to fight the Indians to defend and protect Pakistan. Not PTI fans. IK and his fans should avoid dragging our armed forces into this political mud slinging tamasha.
It's not just external threats, the army is there, has been there and will be there for any or all threats.

They were here for Pakistan before IK and PTI, and they will be there long after insha'Allah!
 
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Good call out. I just hope in the course of our petty domestic politics, all Pakistanis remain clear on the GoP's (any sitting government) all weather relations with China.


It's not just external threats, the army is there, has been there and will be there for any or all threats.

They were here for Pakistan before IK and PTI, and they will be there long after insha'Allah!
Army is the backbone of the nation. There will be no CPEC at all without Army approval and assistance.

In my humble opinion, China has much more confidence on Army than specific government, after all, the Army was/is/will be there, while government changes frequently.
 
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Unfortunately, This forum is hotbed of all those "Loosers" who believes in personality cult of Imran Khan bigger than the interests of Pakistan.
@WebMaster with her pack adding and abating all these loosers on PDF and encourage them to promote i m the dim over Pakistan.
@WebMaster & Pack you people should immediately cease to use word Pakistan in the name of this forum and makes it "Imran Khan Defence forum", since you believes and acts a Pakistan which can go to hell without Imran Khan.



Phir vohi randi rona.....

I agree on personality cult should not exist at all, but at the end all the political parties in pakistan exist around dynastic politics. But the reality is foreign countries and even IMF who give pakistan loan is not buying the gov change in pakistan.

Even your Interior minister is saying is that:

IMF ‘twisting us round its little finger’: Rana Sanaullah​

 
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Despite the urge to simplify and keep on targeting the current CoAS, Pakistan has to maintain ties with both China and the US. This is not a zero sum game which is what IK had cornered Pakistan into with his ill-advised statements and inaction on some of the diplomatic fronts.

Pakistan has the following dependencies (not a comprehensive list but a starting point) on the US/West currently incase its lost on some people:

a) Budget deficit - IMF/WB support to ensure we can pay our import bill [China, Gulf will not support bi-lateral facilities unless the IMF has approved a plan for Pakistan to get its economy back on track, otherwise all these countries are worried that they are putting their money into a bottomless pit with no guarantees that they will see their loans getting serviced (paid back) by Pakistan.]
b) Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) dependencies - FATF progression to whitelist to ensure we can get open, uninterrupted FDI which is essential for the overall growth of the economy. Without this, we cannot grow the net-size of the economy.
c) EU GSP+ status
d) Alignment on Afghanistan
- Getting the West's support to help Afghanistan economically otherwise we have another massive economic basket case, along with our own to deal with.
e) Security alignment - Most of our major weapon systems are of US/Western origin and continued maintenance, upgrades and new acquisitions are tied with our ties to these countries. Case in point is that of Turkey having walked away from the US and then back to the US camp facing the reality that neither Russia, nor their own indigenous capabilities can fill the gap in the absence of US/Western weapons. Our situation is further complicated with the massive injection of western military technology finding its way into the Indian military.
f) Maintaining a semblance of ties with the US to ensure that they can be at least a broker (even if not a fair one) on the India/Kashmir situation. In the absence of the US, talks between Pak-India are not going to happen.


They are well within their right to evaluate but nothing earth-shattering in this regard is happening. If anything, Pak-China will see even more focused alignment in the coming years given what else is happening around the region and specifically in the pacific.

Please elaborate on what you mean by "It's proven to be an unstable and unreliable partner" with facts!

I have seen the same being repeated a few times by you on this forum with nothing factual in support.

a: IMF is not giving you money as of now, even after doing everything state can.
b: FATF won't make any difference in FDI, it depends on ease of doing business and investor perception.
c: The only thing Pakistan should have taken advantage would have been textile, after current hike in energy prices, pak industries won't be competitive enough.
d: Not much has been done on ground, just the talk, meanwhile Pak mil is negotiating with TTP, and India is in talks with Taliban, basically Afg would become hostile in future.
e: Pak has failed in neither aligning itself with china nor it would be able to go western camp for weapons. There is and would be trust deficit between **** generals and chinese CP, as it is evident when coas went to china recently, no high person met him. India is cashing in both russia and west by being an independent country.
f: The biggest failure for pakistani decision makers in the past and will remain so in future for pak foreign or economic policy is to be reliant on others to resolve its issues, whereas completely failing to address or even identify issues internally.

Pak-China relations would depend on the economic and political situation of pakistan, as china is no more soft when it comes to US, so if Pak tried to double play itself (in the name of balancing), it will only get caught in more trouble.

China knows very well where does most **** generals and COAS invest money and live after retirement. Why was Asim Bajwa removed from CPEC? IMO China pak relations will become transactional and that too if Pak is able economically support itself.
 
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If Iran was plan A, then CPEC would not have been prioritized.

Keep in mind that the moment JCPOA gets approved, implemented, Iran will open up to the West. China is aware of that. Yes, China will make some inroads too but the West will ensure that Iran is not ceded to Chinese influence. Just like the West can deal with Saudi/Wahabi set up, they can align the same with Iranian mullahs after placating the Israeli concerns vis-a-vis Iranian nuclear program.

Pakistan was, is and will remain China's surest way to get to the warm waters of the Arabian Sea/Persian Gulf.
You have to think beyond CPEC China-Pakistan transit route, think of it as Africa-Middle East-Asia trade integration and cooperation hub.
 
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If Iran was plan A, then CPEC would not have been prioritized.

Keep in mind that the moment JCPOA gets approved, implemented, Iran will open up to the West. China is aware of that. Yes, China will make some inroads too but the West will ensure that Iran is not ceded to Chinese influence. Just like the West can deal with Saudi/Wahabi set up, they can align the same with Iranian mullahs after placating the Israeli concerns vis-a-vis Iranian nuclear program.

Pakistan was, is and will remain China's surest way to get to the warm waters of the Arabian Sea/Persian Gulf.

Iran will keep a balanced relationship with both west openly (if jcpoa goes through) and china/russia/India. It can keep that because it has natural gas. It still has backdoor channels since EU still buys major chuck of its natural gas. US has still not able to deal with "iranian mullahs" like **** generals. Now after russian situation and uae acceptance of israel, it will be even more hard for US to tackle iran on its own terms.

Keep deluding yourself as pak is china's "surest" way of getting access to warm waters, don't forget that all the infrastructure china has put in CPEC is not a free lunch. You need to repay $40 billion in the coming years, and if you don't it becomes china's property. Pak can't even open an LC of Oil without advance payment these days.
 
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It is in the barracks unless you ask them for help to get you in the office ala 2018 elections and doing all the ground-work with the allies.
So let's not play the innocent lamb after having gone along with the establishment to get PTI in the office.
Why did IK's democratic principles not standup then?
Almost all your posts here have this rhetoric however you never substantiate your claim with even one single shred of evidence that IK was brought into power by ISI. The downing of RTS was not to help Imran but rather to weaken him. No matter how vested, corrupt, short-sighted, or incompetent a few top generals might be but they were never this naive to comprehend that a strong IK will be easier to handle.

While on other hand I can quote a dozen examples of why it suits the establishment to have weak political leadership, 70 years is a long enough time to conclude that political instability suits neutrals. Political stability, economic sustenance, steady development, and a faster growth rate will render them politically irrelevant pushing them to borders only. Therefore after every few years, intervention is made and the entire course of the nation is changed which always happens to benefit the establishment the most.
 
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