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Unmanned PAF aircraft strategies

Xestan

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Unmanned PAF aircraft strategies

X-47A_rollout.jpg


In the next decade all Air Forces are focusing on the Stealth Technology available in the 5th Gen aircraft. The IAF burnt by colossal failures with reference to indigenous aircraft and engine manufacturing was left with a huge gap. It has tried to fill the void which was left by the inability of the IAF to produce the LCA. That void is being filled by three level of purchases, the MCRC, the purchase of Russian PAKFA (called FGFA in Bharat) and possible direct purchase of aircraft from the US.

Within the next quarter century, the IAF is projected to have many 5th generation fighter aircraft. The Chinese Ari Force is Light Years ahead and faces no threat from Delhi. The PAF has taken note of the IAF numbers and is taking appropriate measures to deal with the situation.

The IAF in 2025 will have the PAKFA in service, provided the Russians can produce the aircraft and provided that they are not another generation of Flying Coffins.

The IAF Countermeasures are as follows:

1. Begin the slow progress of mastering the technology so that it can be inculcated into existing Aircraft.

2. Jointly design and build Aircraft with China with approach 5th generation and beyond.

3. Purchase US aircraft with a bit older technology, and then upgrade those aircraft at lesser cost.

4. Work with Indonesia, and Turkey in developing local military technologies to counter the threats.

5. Use less expensive ways to deal with the incoming threat.

6. Bank on Missiles to counter the threat.

7. Bring incremental improvement to the JF-17 Thunder in Blcoks of fifty. This will keep the JF-17 thunder infused the latest technology for the next fifty years.

8. Start production of the FC-20s based on the J-10B and work with the Chinese on the production of the J-11s.

9. Enhance the UAV technology to the next level and design and produce Unmanned Combat Air Vehicles (UCAVs),

10. One expensive option is to build X-47 Pegasus class, to counter India’s military aviation threat to Pakistan.

11. Work with the Chinese to jontly build the WS-13 engine so that it can be used on the UCAV’s.

12. Continue development of the Babur Cruise missile and use to to build UCAV’s.

13. This mixture of response will not only be a potent defense against the IAF, but it will be eliminate the attempt of the IAF to intimidate Pakistan.

The first UCAV’s were autonomous cruise missiles, something that the U.S. and Germany have been fielding since the 1940′s. In Europe, several UCAV’s are known as robotic warplanes ( the Neuron, the Barrakuda and the Corax) are under development. These UACV concepts had their origins in the US, and Europe wants to remain competitive with the American Aviation industry. All the programs have stealth features playing in the same league as the American J-UCAS (Joint Unmanned Combat Aerial System). The US program includes the Boeing X45C and the Northrop Grumman X47B Pegasus . These European projects are the first foreign competitors for the American UCAV’.

These major UCAV’ systems are in play:

1. The six nation $480 million European effort has a produced a flying prototype.
2. The joint German-Spanish, Swiss, Barrakuda conducted its first taxi tests on the 26 January 2006
3. The British Corax UACV. The UK perceives the Joint Strike Fighter as the last manned platform for its Air Force, which will eventually replaced by an UCAV. The Corax, which undertook its maiden flight already in 2004.
4. China is making UCAV by adopting the old F-7 designs. China is using the J-6 and J-7 into target drones. Pakistan which already has the old F-7s can to this cheaply.

The UCAVs have the following advantage:

>Greater maneuverability – in modern day fighter aircraft human tolerance is the limiting factor for the number of g forces the plane can pool during rapid manoeuvres, with UACV this bottleneck is eliminated so they can be very manoeuvrable indeed.

>Less weight – this can affect many things like endurance time, acceleration, payload and so on. One or two pilots and all the stuff you put in the cockpit can weight quite a bit.

>Better aerodynamics – you don’t need the cockpit canopy.
Situational awareness – as Clerik said you can create very good virtual cockpit on ground that is superior to anything you can fit in an aircraft. SA is most important for air superiority missions, I think, and as air-to-air battles are pushed to BWR there is no benefit of having your Mark I eyeball on the actual aircraft.
No crew fatigue – on the ground pilots can control their UACVs in greater comfort and rotate during mission.

>Pilots are out of harms way – UACVs will save pilots lives. Pilot is very expensive to train and hard to replace quickly.

>Long Range Beyond Visual Range Air-to-Air Combat

>Short Range within Visual Range Combat:

>Low Costs:

>Quantity versus Quality:

>Kamikaze possibilities

The Disadvantages of UCAVs

>Tackling the Problem of Jamming:

>Human Element

>Lag – radio communications can travel only so quickly but reaction time is critical for air engagements.
Single point of failure – if the enemy takes out the command centre, all the UCAV’ are neutralized too.

Those who espouse following the C-47 route for the PAF are living in a fools paradise. The US will not share that technology with Pakistan and it will be too expensive for the PAF. The best route for the PAF will be to work with the Chinese and the Europeans to develop these unmanned systems.

Terminal X: Unmanned PAF aircraft strategies
 
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Quite rightly said brother. Unmanned aircrafts offer us: lower cost per unit, smaller size (smaller RCS), radically new design and tactics. And also i believe in this field, almost all countries are entering into this phase together, so we are essentially on par with countries like US, Russia, China, and Europe in a way.

We need cutting edge research in the field of robotics, done by our research institutes and universities, plus joint ventures on UAVs/UCAVs with turkey and china running side by side. I must say that, pakistan, being a country able to design and produce cruise missiles is very much capable of entering into the realm of robotic warfare. Pakistanis should also start thinking about their cruise missiles as a non-disposable/reusable robotic aircraft.

Cruise missile technology can be used as a testbed to experiment with robotic and unmanned technologies. Our cruise missiles can be used for reconnaissance in enemy areas, like mapping active radar sites using passive radar, to help conduct SEAD missions against them. Or to act as forward target designating mini-aircraft, to help guided rocket artillery or missiles. Cruise missiles can also be used to drop supplies to spec-ops forces behind enemy lines.

The use of UCAVs also eliminates the need to use runways. Smart air defence UCAVs, a type of cruise missile, can be added as an extra component to large area air defence batteries like S-300, HQ-9 and launched from tubes. In a typical scenario, this type of missile can be launched along with other missiles at approaching targets 120km away, and act as terminal phase radar for other missiles, or perhaps rather carry 2 short range A2A missiles itself (with both missiles being fired at the same target, increasing kill probability). And then return back to the battery if it survives.

The use of unmanned aircrafts removes the restriction of G-limits, allowing for more agility, and can be launched from different platforms. A very interesting prospect can be the integration of small UCAVs, the size of cruise missiles, on large military cargo aircrafts like Il-78. An Il-78 can act as an airborne UAV carrier, flying alongside an AWACs, and launching cruise missile shaped UCAVs at a place 250km away. The UCAVs can engage air or ground targets designated by the AWACs (with some UCAVs also being controlled by pilots sitting in the AWACs). This can add a lot of flexibility to air operations. The UCAVs may return to the 'mothership' Il-78 after their mission.

The same concept can be used to give some form of air defence capability to the submarines, where they can launch cruise missile shaped UCAVs which engage their targets (anti-sub helis or naval patrol aircrafts like P3 Orion) and then dive into the sea and 'dock' back to the submarine. Although many technological advancements may be required before all this is possible, but the point is that unmanned planes open up many new possibilities in the way aircrafts are used today. And this can help pakistan augment its airforce with cheaper unmanned aircrafts and also achieve numerical superiority in the defensive role.
 
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I am not sure about IAF counters but we could really use UMAs for the War on Terror.
 
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I am not impressed by this article. Here are the reasons.

1. "The IAF Countermeasures are as follows:" creates ambiguity. One can not clearly tell whether these are countermeasures FOR IAF, or BY IAF. The context makes it clear what is meant, but the phrase jars reader's mind nonetheless. Such ambiguity and lack of clarity in expression hints at the lack of clarity in thinking as well as one reads on.

2. I would have liked to see an indication of how we might be able to afford the said scenario that has been shown. We obviously do not have resources to continue inducting JF-17, induct FC-20, develop and induct a Chinese 5th Gen combat plane, and develop UCAVs on top of it all.

3. It is important to question the assumption that Pakistan must counter all that IAF does. As long as they know that they will not get a walk over, we can handle the rest via diplomacy backed by nuclear deterrent.

4. If we can first develop Armed UAVs, we can then think about UCAVs. First things first.
 
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The IAF Countermeasures are as follows:
IAF Countermeasures??? :woot: That should have been PAF countermeasures. Or Countermeasures against the IAF.

That blogger who wrote this masterpiece should at least get his English right! :cheesy:

And this article about UCAVs has been written by the Americans about six years ago, on which he has superimposed his views on what the PAF should acquire.

This sensationalist blogger has also said that the Chinese are 'light years' ahead of Russian technology!! Really? And then he has also mentioned that the IAF in 2025 will have the PAKFA in service, provided the Russians can produce the aircraft and provided that they are not another generation of Flying Coffins.

So, the FGFA/T-50 PAK FA will be another generation of flying coffins? What an idiot! :cuckoo:
 
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Unmanned PAF aircraft strategies

X-47A_rollout.jpg


In the next decade all Air Forces are focusing on the Stealth Technology available in the 5th Gen aircraft. The IAF burnt by colossal failures with reference to indigenous aircraft and engine manufacturing was left with a huge gap. It has tried to fill the void which was left by the inability of the IAF to produce the LCA. That void is being filled by three level of purchases, the MCRC, the purchase of Russian PAKFA (called FGFA in Bharat) and possible direct purchase of aircraft from the US.

Within the next quarter century, the IAF is projected to have many 5th generation fighter aircraft. The Chinese Ari Force is Light Years ahead and faces no threat from Delhi. The PAF has taken note of the IAF numbers and is taking appropriate measures to deal with the situation.

The IAF in 2025 will have the PAKFA in service, provided the Russians can produce the aircraft and provided that they are not another generation of Flying Coffins.

The IAF Countermeasures are as follows:

1. Begin the slow progress of mastering the technology so that it can be inculcated into existing Aircraft.

2. Jointly design and build Aircraft with China with approach 5th generation and beyond.

3. Purchase US aircraft with a bit older technology, and then upgrade those aircraft at lesser cost.

4. Work with Indonesia, and Turkey in developing local military technologies to counter the threats.

5. Use less expensive ways to deal with the incoming threat.

6. Bank on Missiles to counter the threat.

7. Bring incremental improvement to the JF-17 Thunder in Blcoks of fifty. This will keep the JF-17 thunder infused the latest technology for the next fifty years.

8. Start production of the FC-20s based on the J-10B and work with the Chinese on the production of the J-11s.

9. Enhance the UAV technology to the next level and design and produce Unmanned Combat Air Vehicles (UCAVs),

10. One expensive option is to build X-47 Pegasus class, to counter India’s military aviation threat to Pakistan.

11. Work with the Chinese to jontly build the WS-13 engine so that it can be used on the UCAV’s.

12. Continue development of the Babur Cruise missile and use to to build UCAV’s.

13. This mixture of response will not only be a potent defense against the IAF, but it will be eliminate the attempt of the IAF to intimidate Pakistan.

The first UCAV’s were autonomous cruise missiles, something that the U.S. and Germany have been fielding since the 1940′s. In Europe, several UCAV’s are known as robotic warplanes ( the Neuron, the Barrakuda and the Corax) are under development. These UACV concepts had their origins in the US, and Europe wants to remain competitive with the American Aviation industry. All the programs have stealth features playing in the same league as the American J-UCAS (Joint Unmanned Combat Aerial System). The US program includes the Boeing X45C and the Northrop Grumman X47B Pegasus . These European projects are the first foreign competitors for the American UCAV’.

These major UCAV’ systems are in play:

1. The six nation $480 million European effort has a produced a flying prototype.
2. The joint German-Spanish, Swiss, Barrakuda conducted its first taxi tests on the 26 January 2006
3. The British Corax UACV. The UK perceives the Joint Strike Fighter as the last manned platform for its Air Force, which will eventually replaced by an UCAV. The Corax, which undertook its maiden flight already in 2004.
4. China is making UCAV by adopting the old F-7 designs. China is using the J-6 and J-7 into target drones. Pakistan which already has the old F-7s can to this cheaply.

The UCAVs have the following advantage:

>Greater maneuverability – in modern day fighter aircraft human tolerance is the limiting factor for the number of g forces the plane can pool during rapid manoeuvres, with UACV this bottleneck is eliminated so they can be very manoeuvrable indeed.

>Less weight – this can affect many things like endurance time, acceleration, payload and so on. One or two pilots and all the stuff you put in the cockpit can weight quite a bit.

>Better aerodynamics – you don’t need the cockpit canopy.
Situational awareness – as Clerik said you can create very good virtual cockpit on ground that is superior to anything you can fit in an aircraft. SA is most important for air superiority missions, I think, and as air-to-air battles are pushed to BWR there is no benefit of having your Mark I eyeball on the actual aircraft.
No crew fatigue – on the ground pilots can control their UACVs in greater comfort and rotate during mission.

>Pilots are out of harms way – UACVs will save pilots lives. Pilot is very expensive to train and hard to replace quickly.

>Long Range Beyond Visual Range Air-to-Air Combat

>Short Range within Visual Range Combat:

>Low Costs:

>Quantity versus Quality:

>Kamikaze possibilities

The Disadvantages of UCAVs

>Tackling the Problem of Jamming:

>Human Element

>Lag – radio communications can travel only so quickly but reaction time is critical for air engagements.
Single point of failure – if the enemy takes out the command centre, all the UCAV’ are neutralized too.

Those who espouse following the C-47 route for the PAF are living in a fools paradise. The US will not share that technology with Pakistan and it will be too expensive for the PAF. The best route for the PAF will be to work with the Chinese and the Europeans to develop these unmanned systems.

Terminal X: Unmanned PAF aircraft strategies

Really the new warfare calls for UAVs to action first and PAF should plan out something like this.
 
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About the UAV, robotics, and drone technology, you can get a very good idea about the coming age by watching videos and and reading stuff about latest advances in robotics and AI. Watching 'alien planet' presents a very good picture of machines to machine interaction. Intelligence, Threat assessment, gathering data, planning, and execution of joint operations by robots led by AI constructs is the future. Humans will be more or less redundant. Also the interaction between drones and robots is already illustrated by the 'terminator: salvation' movie. Its a 'swarm robotics' concept, which has already seen a lot of development.

I love to imagine the time when our future drone fleet scrambles in to the air in the middle of the night in response to an approaching air threat, with the PAF pilots still unaware, who are then alerted and follow the robotic fleet into the air. Talk about an automated airforce! ;)
 
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About the UAV, robotics, and drone technology, you can get a very good idea about the coming age by watching videos and and reading stuff about latest advances in robotics and AI. Watching 'alien planet' presents a very good picture of machines to machine interaction. Intelligence, Threat assessment, gathering data, planning, and execution of joint operations by robots led by AI constructs is the future. Humans will be more or less redundant. Also the interaction between drones and robots is already illustrated by the 'terminator: salvation' movie. Its a 'swarm robotics' concept, which has already seen a lot of development.

I love to imagine the time when our future drone fleet scrambles in to the air in the middle of the night in response to an approaching air threat, with the PAF pilots still unaware, who are then alerted and follow the robotic fleet into the air. Talk about an automated airforce! ;)
My friend dont worry! work is on, wait for the good news.
 
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About the UAV, robotics, and drone technology, you can get a very good idea about the coming age by watching videos and and reading stuff about latest advances in robotics and AI. Watching 'alien planet' presents a very good picture of machines to machine interaction. Intelligence, Threat assessment, gathering data, planning, and execution of joint operations by robots led by AI constructs is the future. Humans will be more or less redundant. Also the interaction between drones and robots is already illustrated by the 'terminator: salvation' movie. Its a 'swarm robotics' concept, which has already seen a lot of development.

I love to imagine the time when our future drone fleet scrambles in to the air in the middle of the night in response to an approaching air threat, with the PAF pilots still unaware, who are then alerted and follow the robotic fleet into the air. Talk about an automated airforce! ;)
Man one thing is for sure and that is AI sucks, because the best of the best AI machines have got the IQ of a 5 year old child even poor then that......:undecided:
 
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Man one thing is for sure and that is AI sucks, because the best of the best AI machines have got the IQ of a 5 year old child even poor then that......:undecided:

Hellooooooooo buddy!!! :cheers: Quite alike are we. You are the second similar person i encounter at PDF. Joined in 2006, still 7 posts.

I joined in 2007, and till last week, i had 3 posts only. Truly a silent member :) I've become active very recently. Only used to read stuff before that. No posting.

About the AI, the concept is still in its infancy especially 'machine learning'. But if you follow developments in computer science and robotics, you'll probably agree that this is the fastest growing area in S&T.
 
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Hellooooooooo buddy!!! :cheers: Quite alike are we. You are the second similar person i encounter at PDF. Joined in 2006, still 7 posts.
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Who was the first one bro?
“There are times when silence has the loudest voice”:coffee:
I joined in 2007, and till last week, i had 3 posts only. Truly a silent member :) I've become active very recently. Only used to read stuff before that. No posting.
Dear i guess we have the same set of minds, i am also like that i only post when its extremely needed otherwise not.
About the AI, the concept is still in its infancy especially 'machine learning'. But if you follow developments in computer science and robotics, you'll probably agree that this is the fastest growing area in S&T
Man i agree its the area where a lot of R&D is going on but still i believe machines are dumb enough, why?
Because you can design a robot that'll fabricate a complex electronic circuit board and it'll do the same with out any errors a zillion times but that same machine can't think on its own about what it is doing or why it is doing this job its a pre programmed tool that'll do what its set of instruction will tell it do.
A machine like the terminator(The movie) or I robots is a si fi bullsh.it thats light years away from reality, today's best of the best robots can only sing, dance and walk a few stair steps until their battery will die or the wires will not allow it to go beyond their lengths...lol

Any way nice to meat you man
 
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