Unlike China, India has growth with values: PM Manmohan

[baconlover]

India's primary concern is not GDP, or survey's compiled by some alien body but the views, opinions, concerns, sentiments of its populace.

Only during election (aka get-votes-from-sheeples) time...based on my perception of how much you "appreciate" your politicians, in general.

....Of course, we could take the easy route out and stop giving any right to our citizens....

India can't, you know you guys are stuck with it - you ruling elites will never allow that - it takes a revolution, and a BIG one in your case.

India's primary concern is not GDP, or survey's....

Screw GDP, screw infrastructure.......FOOD! Health!

But we have chosen a proper, fair, open route to all-round development. Thats the difference, mate.

The difference you refuse to or can not see is that democracy does not work in the case of your country.
It works for a wealthy, well-off (this, IMO, is most critical), homogeneous, well-educated, highly advanced society.
India democracy == Sheeplecracy.

Time (30 years ?) will prove either you or me wrong.

 

[deckingraj]

The difference you refuse to or can not see is that democracy does not work in the case of your country.
It works for a wealthy, well-off (this, IMO, is most critical), homogeneous, well-educated, highly advanced society.
India democracy == Sheeplecracy.

Now as you are succesful in flaming the thread would you mind sharing why democracy won't work in india?? Why do you need a system if you already have "wealthy, well-off (this, IMO, is most critical), homogeneous, well-educated, highly advanced society."...or you first achieve that and then shift to democracy just for the sake of it???

 

[baconlover]

> deckingraj: would you mind sharing why democracy won't work in india??

I'm sorry you see it as flaming, I didn't intended it to.
(actually "Bhaarat" started with the "strong words" --- you didn't read his post (#102), did you ?)
US is a bit of "sheeplecracy" too, heck we just might get Palin/Beck in 2012!

You know the US, you know your own India better than me --- if you don't know the "why ?" then I'm not incline to type it out here.(actually I already pointed out).

Basically, my point is: for TRUE (repeat TRUE) democracy to really work, it has requirements. It's no "magic pill".

So now, you ---> Think!

 

[Red Dwarf]

Basically, my point is: for TRUE (repeat TRUE) democracy to really work, it has requirements. It's no "magic pill"

What are the requirements ?.

 

[Khajur]

First of all india isnt a homogeneous country .Its neither a homogeneous rich country like Swizerland nor a very poor country like sub Saharan Africa.

India is a unique country of more than 1 Billion ppl consisting of both rich and poor like very few country in the world.

On the one hand it has multiple Billionaires who numbers more than most developed countries in the worid.

India to have most billionaires by 2017: Forbes’ poll

Its worldlclass military power,science and tech hub and IT super power.Its has middle class of more 300million strong , roughly equal to US the population who standards of living is camparable to citizens of any developed country.

On the otherhand ,we have 40% of polulation who live on less than a 2$ a day and as i inditicated this poor section of india also witness a very high birth making then spend all of their earning on insufficent food items to feed thier families and missing on education ,health and other necessities of life.Thus taking big toll on the avg social indicator of india whose number slip near sub Saharan Africa.

 

[baconlover]

What are the requirements ?.

A wealthy, well-off (this, IMO, is most critical), homogeneous, well-educated, highly advanced society.

BTW, in post#102 "Bhaarat" said:

That is why we are a democracy. Of course, we could take the easy route out and stop giving any right to our citizens, make them work like state owned slaves in industries, produce cheap goods sell them at cheap rates

The most shining examples of working democracy have been who ? US, and Britain right ?

Think now - how did these 2 countries get to those "requirements" ? Are they all like geniuses ? blessing from God ?
* Who did the British Empire colonize, enslave and exploite to get to that ?
* Where did the US get this most wonderful piece of land from ? where did US get all that labor force required to build from a virgin land to industrial super power ?

They cheated
and now they can act all "classy" and honorable
Hypocrites

 

[Red Dwarf]

A wealthy, well-off (this, IMO, is most critical), homogeneous, well-educated, highly advanced society.

BTW, in post#102 "Bhaarat" said:



The most shining examples of working democracy have been who ? US, and Britain right ?

Think now - how did these 2 countries get to those "requirements" ? Are they all like geniuses ? blessing from God ?
* Who did the British Empire colonize, enslave and exploite to get to that ?
* Where did the US get this most wonderful piece of land from ? where did US get all that labor force required to build from a virgin land to industrial super power ?

They cheated
and now they can act all "classy" and honorable
Hypocrites

Sorry mate i didn't get what you mean.

By democracy i believe, if the people are all equal in a country irrespective of their color, language, religion,job they i can say it is a democracy. Plus if they all have enough freedom for speech and media they can be called democracy as well.

But above all the most important is the facility by which they can elect whoever they want.

By all these even military rule can be called a democracy if they are working together.

 

[baconlover]

By democracy i believe, if the people are all equal in a country irrespective of their color, language, religion,job they i can say it is a democracy. Plus if they all have enough freedom for speech and media they can be called democracy as well.

But above all the most important is the facility by which they can elect whoever they want.
By all these even military rule can be called a democracy if they are working together.

> Sorry mate i didn't get what you mean.

If you think the part in green in the quote is Democracy, then of course you don't get me.
That part in green is "Freedom" : a by-product of Democracy.
YES, India definitely has more freedom than China, which is authoritarian.
Anyway forget it.

Seriously read this : Democracy

 

[deckingraj]

@baconlover

First of all let me apologize for accusing you of flaming the thread...It was surely uncalled for...I hope you will accept my apology and we can debate like civilized folks

> deckingraj: would you mind sharing why democracy won't work in india??

Ummmm..Actually i was saying that it will work in India...Its you who said that for democracy to work you need to have a society which is "wealthy, well-off (this, IMO, is most critical), homogeneous, well-educated, highly advanced society.".... Now my counter argument was if you have all that why the heck you need democracy for?? Isn't that what the intention of any system??? I will prefer socialism or for that matter any system(actually not if democracy can provide the same) that can result in ""wealthy, well-off (this, IMO, is most critical), homogeneous, well-educated, highly advanced society."... I hope you see my point....

I'm sorry you see it as flaming, I didn't intended it to.
(actually "Bhaarat" started with the "strong words" --- you didn't read his post (#102), did you ?)

I did and thats why apologized...

US is a bit of "sheeplecracy" too, heck we just might get Palin/Beck in 2012!

Well lets c...though i have no voting power in US but if i get i will never vote for republican's....

You know the US, you know your own India better than me --- if you don't know the "why ?" then I'm not incline to type it out here.(actually I already pointed out).

Honestly i don't know the "WHY"..Why democracy won't work in India?....

Basically, my point is: for TRUE (repeat TRUE) democracy to really work, it has requirements. It's no "magic pill".

So now, you ---> Think!

You are absolutely right...For a true democracy to work you have requirements....Even a child knows that...I mean if there is a poor man who knows nothing about his/her rights or being illitrate don't know what the heck democrary is...or for that matter has far more grave issues like housing..clothing..food etc etc how do you expect him/her to care about democracy vs such issues???

However my point of argument is how do you reach there??? In other words at what point you introduce democracy in your society....Please note this is not a simple system to implement...Once you implement it you learn from it and keep on improvising...Sometimes couple of generations don't get to see the true results/benefits of democracy....For that matter india is a democracy of only 62 years...

The most shining examples of working democracy have been who ? US, and Britain right ?

Think now - how did these 2 countries get to those "requirements" ? Are they all like geniuses ? blessing from God ?

No they are not all geniuses or have blessing from god....They worked hard for it....

* Who did the British Empire colonize, enslave and exploite to get to that ?
* Where did the US get this most wonderful piece of land from ? where did US get all that labor force required to build from a virgin land to industrial super power ?

That's where my friend you are a bit wrong....With imperialistic ideology you can very well win Lands..countries but you cannot create a "wealthy, well-off (this, IMO, is most critical), homogeneous, well-educated, highly advanced society.".....That's where you need to come up with a system which can help you achieve that...be it socialism...be it democracy...be it anything else...Now all systems have pros and cons and if i look into history you will find democracy have scored over Socialism...The point i am trying to make is that US introduced democracy(though not in absolute terms) much before they were industrial super power. If you look at the 19th centuary statistics of US you will see poverty...slums..hunger and all the issues that developing world is facing(though they still have yet not at alarming rate as compared with countries like India)...


Now you and I can argue about the rise of America/Britain vs other democratic societies and that's where your points are valid....However i would like to bring one more example before you...Germany...A country who lost both the world wars...never successfully able to colonize any part of the world....is the most successful country in the whole of Europe...I would also like to bring to your attention to the contrasting difference between east(socialist) and west (democratic) Germany before the fall of berlin wall(though the difference is still there but east is catching up)

They cheated and now they can act all "classy" and honorable. Hypocrites

That my friend is debatable... Though my heart is with you on this yet my mind says they did what was considered right at that time but wrong now....i.e. Extreme Nationalism - MY nation right or wrong...


Here's a link for you
History of democracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[baconlover]

Ummmm..Actually i was saying that it will work in India.

You getting lost. I was quoting YOUR STATEMENT in #107

However my point of argument is how do you reach there???

If you're suggesting that democracy can bring in those "requirements" I listed, then I don't agree

 

[deckingraj]

You getting lost. I was quoting YOUR STATEMENT in #107

oops...i read it wrong...However i would suggest to use the quote wrapper(one on extreme right in the "Post Quick Reply")..It would make it more apparent...

If you're suggesting that democracy can bring in those "requirements" I listed, then I don't agree

Very fair... You are entitled for your view..However i would have appreciated if you can answer some of the questions that i posted...