Understanding the CPC

[Spectre]

The CPC is not an individual though. In the US an individual represents a party but in China individuals do not represent parties. Theoretically individuals can affect CPC policies through joining the CPC and voting in party elections, or running for office through the party, starting at the lowest local levels of government and working their way up. To actually becoming president is about as realistic as the 7 year old in the US that says "I want to be president someday!" of course and reality is never so clean.

A more concrete question would be: what is the difference between Xi's path to becoming president and Obama's path to becoming president and what are their similiarities? What constrains their actions?

Here's something that I have to say: Xi is just as constrained as Obama is in his actions as president because every decision making body in China is multi-person. There is never one person in charge of this or that, it is always a committee that makes a decision. Whenever there is a committee that makes a decision, as opposed to a single person, there will be constraints on the influence any individual has.

Is CPC totally reflective of will of people as parties in democracies are or does CPC has certain red lines/fundamental structure which it can never alter or cross?

To clarify for eg in most democracies if people let's say want an outlandish idea to implemented like - No doors in houses, which is an infringement on right to privacy - they can vote for representatives promising to implement this law by an amendment to constitution and voila no more doors.

In India we have settled this problem when courts decided that certain laws are fundamental in nature and cannot be changed by legislative process.

For China this issue is very pertinent because govt em-poses strict restrictions on their populace with respect to freedom of speech, privacy among others which is fine if people are fine with it; but what happens if they are not.

Regards

 

[empirefighter]

For China this issue is very pertinent because govt em-poses strict restrictions on their populace with respect to freedom of speech, privacy among others which is fine if people are fine with it; but what happens if they are not.

Regards

En，how can we answer some untrue thought which your medias fooled you. In China，the western medias like CNN and BBC have already lost their reputation because they lie too much and make up too much fake stories，our internet INDEED ban Facebook and Youtube because we have our own similar softwares，except that，our internet and our medias are very open，we actually know the world much more and much better than other countries know us，and we feel enough free speech and privacy，but every country has deadline and laws，of course we need to obey the laws. Maybe you think I am another brainwashed Chinese slave and exploited by the evil CPC ，if you think so，forget what I say.

 

[Spectre]

En，how can we answer some untrue thought which your medias fooled you. In China，the western medias like CNN and BBC have already lost their reputation because they lie too much and make up too much fake stories，our internet INDEED ban Facebook and Youtube because we have our own similar softwares，except that，our internet and our medias are very open，we actually know the world much more and much better than other countries know us，and we feel enough free speech and privacy，but every country has deadline and laws，of course we need to obey the laws. Maybe you think I am another brainwashed Chinese slave and exploited by the evil CPC ，if you think so，forget what I say.

No my friend, I am always open to new thoughts and perspectives.

It is true that my views on China are mainly based on Western Media news report. That is why I am always happy to hear from people of China themselves to get a more accurate and balanced picture.

I would also appreciate you input on the query I posed in the first part of my post.

Regards

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Is CPC totally reflective of will of people as parties in democracies are or does CPC has certain red lines/fundamental structure which it can never alter or cross?

To clarify for eg in most democracies if people let's say want an outlandish idea to implemented like - No doors in houses, which is an infringement on right to privacy - they can vote for representatives promising to implement this law by an amendment to constitution and voila no more doors.

In India we have settled this problem when courts decided that certain laws are fundamental in nature and cannot be changed by legislative process.

For China this issue is very pertinent because govt em-poses strict restrictions on their populace with respect to freedom of speech, privacy among others which is fine if people are fine with it; but what happens if they are not.

Regards

What are the restrictions on speech and privacy in China? Are they exceptional and do not exist elsewhere?

 

[Spectre]

What are the restrictions on speech and privacy in China? Are they exceptional and do not exist elsewhere?

As per my understanding which you can further correct; (Please note that all I know about China is based on Western and Indian media reports so I would be happy to hear your views and adjust mine as needed.)

1. State Control of Media; little to none private media groups; Lack of criticism of CPC in such media

2. Internet and domestic censorship based on criticism of CPC on following topics

a. Democracy - Exceptonal
b. Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 - Exceptional (30 journalists and 74 Netizens were reportedly imprisoned in China as of September 2014)
c. Maoism - Exceptional
d. Falun Gong
e. Tibetian Movement - Understandable
f. Restriction on foreign literature on sensitive issues - Understandable
g. Restriction on foreign literature promoting counter cultural/revolutionary ideas - (Red Guard Teams) Exceptional
h. Restriction on Internet - 18,000 websites including Google, Facebook etc where Chinese people can be exposed to International Opinions etc are banned. Exceptional
i. Lack of criticism of Great Leap Forward
j. Restriction on proselytizing

A confidential internal directive widely circulated within the Communist Party of China, Concerning the Situation in the Ideological Sphere (關於當前意識形態領域情況的通報), prohibiting discussion of seven topics was issued in May 2013. Included on the list of prohibited topics were: western constitutional democracy, universal values of human rights, western conceptions of media independence and civil society, pro-market neo-liberalism, and "Nihilist” criticisms of past errors of the party

Radio jamming in China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Freedom House: New Report Details China Censorship Mechanisms | Freedom House

China Visa History and Information Service Providing Chinese Tourist & Business Visas

Chinese firms to increase censorship of online content - BBC News

PRESS FREEDOM BAROMETER 2014 - Reporters Without Borders
PRESS FREEDOM BAROMETER 2014 - Reporters Without Borders

 

[empirefighter]

As per my understanding which you can further correct; (Please note that all I know about China is based on Western and Indian media reports so I would be happy to hear your views and adjust mine as needed.)

1. State Control of Media; little to none private media groups; Lack of criticism of CPC in such media

2. Internet and domestic censorship based on criticism of CPC on following topics

a. Democracy - Exceptonal
b. Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 - Exceptional (30 journalists and 74 Netizens were reportedly imprisoned in China as of September 2014)
c. Maoism - Exceptional
d. Falun Gong
e. Tibetian Movement - Understandable
f. Restriction on foreign literature on sensitive issues - Understandable
g. Restriction on foreign literature promoting counter cultural/revolutionary ideas - (Red Guard Teams) Exceptional
h. Restriction on Internet - 18,000 websites including Google, Facebook etc where Chinese people can be exposed to International Opinions etc are banned. Exceptional
i. Lack of criticism of Great Leap Forward
j. Restriction on proselytizing

A confidential internal directive widely circulated within the Communist Party of China, Concerning the Situation in the Ideological Sphere (關於當前意識形態領域情況的通報), prohibiting discussion of seven topics was issued in May 2013. Included on the list of prohibited topics were: western constitutional democracy, universal values of human rights, western conceptions of media independence and civil society, pro-market neo-liberalism, and "Nihilist” criticisms of past errors of the party

Radio jamming in China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Freedom House: New Report Details China Censorship Mechanisms | Freedom House

China Visa History and Information Service Providing Chinese Tourist & Business Visas

Chinese firms to increase censorship of online content - BBC News

PRESS FREEDOM BAROMETER 2014 - Reporters Without Borders
PRESS FREEDOM BAROMETER 2014 - Reporters Without Borders

I see your attitude，OK，let me answer these questions .I state first，I am 33 years old ，I am a communist and very proud of that，but I am just a very normal Chinese，really very normal，that is my basic backgroud and only represent my opnions.
1.Chinese medias are very open and active，if you know Chinese，you can easily find out tons of information about the world and domestic affairs，much about critism of government or officials，if our medias or CPC is so dark，why our police arrest thousands of corrupted officials every year？ In fact，the collase of USSR keeping warn the CPC ruling class. One point about media ：There is NO neutral media in the world，every media has their own viewpoint that suit their boss or sponsors interest，we have many private medias specially internet news companies，we find out many private medias are untrust，they can make up fake news for money，the worst thing is many of them are actually controlled by the west，they lie too much for disturbing our society or changllging the regime，but we graually understand the media war and grow up. Give India an advice：be ware of the western NGO.
2.Democracy：our system is not dictatorship as you thought，our political system is the combination of our ancient political system and modern political system，and this system fits our society very well. The western democracy has become a joke in China，we will build our own democracy system and CPC never avoid it，it is the outsiders think CPC is afraid of democracy. The CPC and Chineses just donot like the attitude of west when they critise or judge us as a god.
3.Tiananmen square：To be honest，almost none of my generation cares about this，never mention later generation. The normal Chineses hate the intervention from west very much ，if you get political sponsor from the west openly，that means you are a traitor no matter what you say. The CPC donot hide it or donot care whether people know it or not，they just donot mention it，when I entered college in 2001，I can easily search the video filmed by the west，afrer watching it，I hate the west more.
4.Maosim：I donot understand your point.
5.Falun Gong：Lol，you can pass it，meaningless ，no one cares.
6.Tibetan movement：why our government donot dare to tell us or hide this REBEL movement？Do you think any Chinese will support this rebel activity if we know it？To be honest，big countries like USA，Russia or us，every one gain land by war and blood，so is India. No one in China cares this movement because they are so weak，and mouth war never work，specially the west sponsor it and it doom to be nothing，CPC love mentioning this，afterall，every one hate traitors.
7.Restrictions：some of your thought is based on your culture，some of them is toally fake，you know very little about us or East Asian culture，very hard to talk. Simply say：（1）Chineses are patriots from deep heart and very proud race，we can forgive our government fault policy and keep moving ，but we cannot accept outsiders judgement about our domestic affairs，CPC did very well and no party is perfect.（2）foreign literature on sensitive issues：we have our own viewpoints and no need foreign judgement，specially from the most evil power USA.（3）Google and Facebook：why you guys always mention these？ is it very proud of using these softwares invented ，controlled and supervisied by USA ？using these have nothing to do with freedom or somthing holy，you need to jump out of the lie，they are American companies，internet is a future HIGHLAND that every country need to occupy.

Another true word：as a non west country，India never can become one of the west group，India should think and have your own viewpoints ，the west medias are very powerful and fool the audience easily，donot get fooled by beatuiful but useless words.

 

[Spectre]

I see your attitude，OK，let me answer these questions .I state first，I am 33 years old ，I am a communist and very proud of that，but I am just a very normal Chinese，really very normal，that is my basic backgroud and only represent my opnions.
1.Chinese medias are very open and active，if you know Chinese，you can easily find out tons of information about the world and domestic affairs，much about critism of government or officials，if our medias or CPC is so dark，why our police arrest thousands of corrupted officials every year？ In fact，the collase of USSR keeping warn the CPC ruling class. One point about media ：There is NO neutral media in the world，every media has their own viewpoint that suit their boss or sponsors interest，we have many private medias specially internet news companies，we find out many private medias are untrust，they can make up fake news for money，the worst thing is many of them are actually controlled by the west，they lie too much for disturbing our society or changllging the regime，but we graually understand the media war and grow up. Give India an advice：be ware of the western NGO.
2.Democracy：our system is not dictatorship as you thought，our political system is the combination of our ancient political system and modern political system，and this system fits our society very well. The western democracy has become a joke in China，we will build our own democracy system and CPC never avoid it，it is the outsiders think CPC is afraid of democracy. The CPC and Chineses just donot like the attitude of west when they critise or judge us as a god.
3.Tiananmen square：To be honest，almost none of my generation cares about this，never mention later generation. The normal Chineses hate the intervention from west very much ，if you get political sponsor from the west openly，that means you are a traitor no matter what you say. The CPC donot hide it or donot care whether people know it or not，they just donot mention it，when I entered college in 2001，I can easily search the video filmed by the west，afrer watching it，I hate the west more.
4.Maosim：I donot understand your point.
5.Falun Gong：Lol，you can pass it，meaningless ，no one cares.
6.Tibetan movement：why our government donot dare to tell us or hide this REBEL movement？Do you think any Chinese will support this rebel activity if we know it？To be honest，big countries like USA，Russia or us，every one gain land by war and blood，so is India. No one in China cares this movement because they are so weak，and mouth war never work.
7.Restrictions：some of your thought is based on your culture，some of them is toally fake，you know very little about us or East Asian culture，very hard to talk. Simply say：（1）Chineses are patriots from deep heart and very proud race，we can forgive our government fault policy and keep moving ，but we cannot accept outsiders judgement about our domestic affairs，CPC did very well and no party is perfect.（2）foreign literature on sensitive issues：we have our own viewpoints and no need foreign judgement，specially from the most evil power USA.（3）Google and Facebook：why you guys always mention these？ is it very proud of using these softwares invented ，controlled and supervisied by USA ？using these have nothing to do with freedom or somthing holy，you need to jump out of the lie，they are American companies，internet is a future HIGHLAND that every country need to occupy.

Another true word：as a non west country，India never can become one of the west group，India should think and have your own viewpoints ，the west medias are very powerful and fool the audience easily，donot get fooled by beatuiful but useless words.

Thank you my friend, I find your post very interesting and knowledgeable giving me a window into your thought process.

I can understand most of your points clearly and can now see you and I have very different yardsticks thus it would be unfair to either impose or compare western system with Chinese. There are somethings which valued a lot in our culture like complete freedom because we were under British rule for so long and hence we detest Govt putting any restriction on us on anything. It is perfectly fine if China has different concept of freedom.

The thing is Chinese system is not a failure but a major miracle success which people say has not happened before and will not happen again and all this bought to reality by hard working Chinese and their Govts. So it be foolish to criticize something if people are happy and it works well.

Regards

 

[LowPost]

To @rugering , with all due respect, did you watch these videos?

I did, just completed all five episodes of the series. All of these provide enlightening insight on the CPC so I enjoyed watching the videos. Haven't watched the other Closer to China with R. L. Kuhn videos yet though.

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

I did, just completed all five episodes of the series. All of these provide enlightening insight on the CPC so I enjoyed watching the videos. Haven't watched the other Closer to China with R. L. Kuhn videos yet though.

Does it get better after the first two episodes? I have tried to approach this with an open mind, but episode one gave me a headache with its circularity (to understand China one must understand the CCP, and this momentous book publishing explaining the CCP will enable one to understand the CCP and how it guided the development of modern China, which in turn has shaped the development of the CCP, which guided the development of China, etc.). It was difficult to watch episode two with a straight face, with quotes like this: "So I think from the election point of view, although China is not a competitive, or two party system, the CPC also wins the people's approval through every election."

I think this is a case where just as many Chinese users here suggest that the Chinese system is so different from the Western one that we Westerners will never understand it, so too, the Western system appears to be alien and incomprehensible to the officials in this video. Speaking of "recommendation-based elections," "democratic centralism," and "the four subordinates" serves to harden previously held opinions, rather than explain how the CCP isn't what we thought it is.

There is a better way to explain the CCP that would make it more comprehensible to Westerners, which is putting it in terms of the Western system that Westerners can understand (e.g. the "leading groups" are like congressional committees and sub-committees, the standing committee is like the executive branch, the central committee is like the legislative branch, etc.). But since that would violate the claim that the CCP is something entirely new and different from the hated Western political system, it seems like that won't be possible.

I appreciate the suggestion, but to understand the CCP, it's probably easier for me to read articles.

 

[Spectre]

Does it get better after the first two episodes? I have tried to approach this with an open mind, but episode one gave me a headache with its circularity (to understand China one must understand the CCP, and this momentous book publishing explaining the CCP will enable one to understand the CCP and how it guided the development of modern China, which in turn has shaped the development of the CCP, which guided the development of China, etc.). It was difficult to watch episode two with a straight face, with quotes like this: "So I think from the election point of view, although China is not a competitive, or two party system, the CPC also wins the people's approval through every election."

I think this is a case where just as many Chinese users here suggest that the Chinese system is so different from the Western one that we Westerners will never understand it, so too, the Western system appears to be alien and incomprehensible to the officials in this video. Speaking of "recommendation-based elections," "democratic centralism," and "the four subordinates" serves to harden previously held opinions, rather than explain how the CCP isn't what we thought it is.

There is a better way to explain the CCP that would make it more comprehensible to Westerners, which is putting it in terms of the Western system that Westerners can understand (e.g. the "leading groups" are like congressional committees and sub-committees, the standing committee is like the executive branch, the central committee is like the legislative branch, etc.). But since that would violate the claim that the CCP is something entirely new and different from the hated Western political system, it seems like that won't be possible.

I appreciate the suggestion, but to understand the CCP, it's probably easier for me to read articles.

I wonder if we will evolve into different sub races in centuries to come at the rate we are going. On one hand cell phones and internet have bought vast inter connectedness and at the same time I am amazed by how different our thought process, culture and genetic pre disposition to certain behaviors are. Vast difference in living standards would make an alien wonder after he visits Africa and US that may be they are two different planets.

Just a wild thought based on a recent book i read.

 

[LowPost]

Does it get better after the first two episodes?

I can't say for sure that you'll like the next episodes but I think it does, as good points were made about the ongoing anti-graft campaign for instance. I understand that you struggled to follow the arguments presented in the first two videos but thanks anyway for your comment.

 

[empirefighter]

Thank you my friend, I find your post very interesting and knowledgeable giving me a window into your thought process.

I can understand most of your points clearly and can now see you and I have very different yardsticks thus it would be unfair to either impose or compare western system with Chinese. There are somethings which valued a lot in our culture like complete freedom because we were under British rule for so long and hence we detest Govt putting any restriction on us on anything. It is perfectly fine if China has different concept of freedom.

The thing is Chinese system is not a failure but a major miracle success which people say has not happened before and will not happen again and all this bought to reality by hard working Chinese and their Govts. So it be foolish to criticize something if people are happy and it works well.

Regards

I am very happy to know you can understand my words. Chinese are very realistic people，actually we have many similarities with the realistic and business country USA，USA always speak beautiful words but do dirty jobs，they are not holy or god，they are actually businessmen，so donot be cheated. Because we are very realistic，the beautiful words like freedom or democracy donot work in our society，our focus is wealth，good job ，health ，money or something related to our life. In our culture，politics and goverment is very serious and professional word，we donot trust the western election and donot believe it can choose suitable leaders by election，our leaders are chosen by good work for decades and prove their capability，we donot desire the election freedom at all，leave these jobs to the people who can do it well but not the people who talk well.
In the future，our political system will become more democratic，more people will intervene the governence by representing their interests，we will develop Chinese democracy system that suits us，but ours will never like the west. We have a important different view to the goverment：the west think government is natural evil，but we think government is natural good and we have this thought for thousands of years. That decides our difference. As you said，So it be foolish to criticize something if people are happy and it works well.