Unable to build aircraft, Delhi splurges on planes it can ill afford

[rubyjackass]

Funny isn't it? When the media rants about Pakistan these Indians are very quick to join the bandwagon. When it comes down to their own failures and negativities the sources are inaccurate and biased as usual. What a bunch of silly hypocrites. Well, no wonder that the Indians have such a inferiority complex. It does prove my point again and again.

PS. Had I been a moderator of this forum, these Indians wouldn't have lasted a minute on this forum.

Perhaps you should note down which Indians form the bandwagon and which ones reply to this kind of threads.
I am pretty sure they make disjoint sets.

 

[hj786]

Perhaps you should note down which Indians form the bandwagon and which ones reply to this kind of threads.
I am pretty sure they make disjoint sets.

I am no statistician, but I would disagree. The two sets as you put it have a lot in common.

 

[slugger]

the experience of serial production and sanction-proof status will benefit Pakistan greatly in the long-run.

how about Russia refusing to honor its commitment of supply any more RD-93s for the thunder

the possibility of such a thing happening is not outside the realms of possiblity - a sweet and juicy deal for selling nuclear reactors here and there in India, a $15 billion dollar USD contract for supplying aircrafts, awarding which will generate employement and help pay salaries in a design bureau that has got nothing but bad news and misery to talk about

we give you the contract, you give us a commitement of refusing to honor another less monetary valued commitment - it is all about give and take - we give you the contract, you give us the joy of seeing birds withhout engines sitting on the tarmac providing shade to weary personels with no planes to fly or mantain

unlike earlier, they have to work and earn our contracts by agreeing to act in a manner that would benefit India

it is just a matter of movingg money around or creating a situation where the entities involved have to make a choice between India and Pakistan

Knowing opulent Pakistan's unlimited monetary resources and unmatched riches, should it be a very difficult decision for companies to make when the underlying principle of any business enterprise is to maximise profit at all cost.

 

[rubyjackass]

I am no statistician, but I would disagree. The two sets as you put it have a lot in common.

You should try the exercise and then come with results. Disagreeing outright will not help your prejudice.

 

[hj786]

how about Russia refusing to honor its commitment of supply any more RD-93s for the thunder

LOL. Do you seriously expect us to believe all that bullsh*t you just said will happen?
Even if it does - it won't, but if somehow it does, WS-13 is almost ready. It was in the final stages of testing at least a year ago from what I have read. Apart from that, the French have already offered the Snecma M53 engine WITH transfer of technology for JF-17.
This means that your dream outlined in the above post will not happen. Neither India nor Russia can stop the JF-17 project, so go take your crap somewhere else.

You should try the exercise and then come with results. Disagreeing outright will not help your prejudice.

Dear sir, I have no prejudice whatsoever, I have respect for those such as yourself.
I am aware there are two distinct sets of Indian members here, but I disagree that they are disjoint.

 

[slugger]

India may benefit more in the short-run

don't quite see how offers of companies for setting up assembly line in India, operated and managed by Indian citizens, along with the setting up of a servicing, overhaul and MLU facility for the aircrafts flown by the Air Forces in the neighboring countries would benefit India only in the "short-run" and not the "long-run"

also a little difficult to fathom how a 30% offset clause whereby 30% ofthe cost of the contract has to be returned back to India by means of collaboration and tie-ups with Indian companies would benefit India only in the "short-run" and not the "long-run"

also a little hard to digest how offers of companies to do a ToT many including the source code of the radars in this ToT will benefit India only in the "short-run" and not the "long-run"

also how does the leverage one gets after handing out $15 billion USD benefit India only in the "short-run" and not the "long-run"

your statement lacks insight

 

[Fennecus]

don't quite see how offers of companies for setting up assembly line in India, operated and managed by Indian citizens, along with the setting up of a servicing, overhaul and MLU facility for the aircrafts flown by the Air Forces in the neighboring countries would benefit India only in the "short-run" and not the "long-run"

also a little difficult to fathom how a 30% offset clause whereby 30% ofthe cost of the contract has to be returned back to India by means of collaboration and tie-ups with Indian companies would benefit India only in the "short-run" and not the "long-run"

also a little hard to digest how offers of companies to do a ToT many including the source code of the radars in this ToT will benefit India only in the "short-run" and not the "long-run"

also how does the leverage one gets after handing out $15 billion USD benefit India only in the "short-run" and not the "long-run"

your statement lacks insight

Friend,

Please link to me to a combat aircraft currently in IAF service that is indigenously designed and built.

The sad truth is, only very few countries in the world are capable of making their own frontline combat aircraft. The USA, Russia, China, and France are the main four.

As for the MCRA, perhaps there will be a degree of ToT. But these are licensed productions that come from foreign kits. Meaning that India must pay more if they want to produce more, a clear export-import relationship.

 

[realrahulka]

Friend,

Please link to me to a combat aircraft currently in IAF service that is indigenously designed and built.

The sad truth is, only very few countries in the world are capable of making their own frontline combat aircraft. The USA, Russia, China, and France are the main four.

As for the MCRA, perhaps there will be a degree of ToT. But these are licensed productions that come from foreign kits. Meaning that India must pay more if they want to produce more, a clear export-import relationship.

Mr Fennecus... how come China in this list ???...

J-11 sukhoi airframe and russian engine..

J-10 IAI lavi design and russian engine..

JF-17 again russian engine..

J-8ii russian design and copy of the Tumansky R-13-300 turbojet engine..

J-7 mig-21 design and copy of the Tumansky R-11-F-300 engine...

J-5 locally built mig-17 derivative..

JH-7 russian design and WS-9 (licenced built Rolls-Royce Spey RB 168 Mk.202) engine..

 

[Fennecus]

Mr Fennecus... how come China in this list ???...

J-11 sukhoi airframe and russian engine..

J-10 IAI lavi design and russian engine..

JF-17 again russian engine..

J-8ii russian design and copy of the Tumansky R-13-300 turbojet engine..

J-7 mig-21 design and copy of the Tumansky R-11-F-300 engine...

J-5 locally built mig-17 derivative..

JH-7 russian design and WS-9 (licenced built Rolls-Royce Spey RB 168 Mk.202) engine..

J-11, a licensed production. True. But J-11B has over 70% chinese components that were done by China, unlike the MKI's upgrades which were done by Russia.

J-10. Based off the cancelled J-9 fighter, a 1960s design which featured the canard configuration. Pre-dates the Lavi by a long time.



JF-17. Engines are indeed an area which China is lacking, but catching up fast. WS-10A is just about ready to enter service, while WS-13 is in the later stages of testing. India is nowhere near the stage of China when it comes to jet engine development.

J-8. Built in China, and she can produce as many as she wants.

J-7. Indeed a copy, but still produced by China and she can make and sell as many as she wants.

J-5. Another copy, but produced by China even when she was a backwater economic hellhole.

JH-7. Another indigenously designed Chinese fighter-bomber, only the engines are under licensed production.

What you've proved is how much experience China has had producing its own front-line fighters.

 

[realrahulka]

J-11, a licensed production. True. But J-11B has over 70% chinese components that were done by China, unlike the MKI's upgrades which were done by Russia.

J-10. Based off the cancelled J-9 fighter, a 1960s design which featured the canard configuration. Pre-dates the Lavi by a long time.



JF-17. Engines are indeed an area which China is lacking, but catching up fast. WS-10A is just about ready to enter service, while WS-13 is in the later stages of testing. India is nowhere near the stage of China when it comes to jet engine development.

J-8. Built in China, and she can produce as many as she wants.

J-7. Indeed a copy, but still produced by China and she can make and sell as many as she wants.

J-5. Another copy, but produced by China even when she was a backwater economic hellhole.

JH-7. Another indigenously designed Chinese fighter-bomber, only the engines are under licensed production.

What you've proved is how much experience China has had producing its own front-line fighters.

and what u r proved here is how much experience China has had in copying other fighters..

 

[Fennecus]

and what u r proved here is how much experience China has had in copying other fighters..

Yes, some of the early combat aircraft were copies. I don't deny that at all.

Be mindful of the position that China was in right after 1949 when the PRC was founded. A country that was devastated by foreign invasion, civil wars, and the KMT running off with all of China's wealth to Taiwan.

The PLA was nothing more than a bunch of rag-tag peasants that had to capture enemy weapons in order to fight. We had no aviation or naval industry to even speak of.

With almost 60 years (the first 30 being utter failure due to Mao), China has made light-speed advancement into all industries.

 

[realrahulka]

Please stick to the topic..

 

[realrahulka]

what i'm trying to say that both china and india have started to devolop their indigenous tubofan engines since 1986 and still on process...

 

[Contrarian]

India may benefit more in the short-run, but I believe China's plan of action will benefit much more in the long-run.

India is ALSO making its own plane side by side. And all our purchases include ToT AND OFFSETS so that Indian industry is able to get new technology and become self sufficient in the long run.

Pakistan has also just begun assembly line production for the JF-17. While it may not be as advanced as what India is able to purchase, the experience of serial production and sanction-proof status will benefit Pakistan greatly in the long-run.

Sorry buddy, what Pakistan is doing now, India did decades back. Licenced assembly for Pakistan? Forget assembling,India is building Su-30MKI from scratch in India, Jaguar, Dornier, etc, etc

Dont even bother comparing. The MMRCA will also be built in India. Holes can be punched right through the article that was posted.

 

[Dilli]

Unable to build aircraft, Delhi decides to splurge on luxuries it can ill afford.

Some people need to get a life, especially this ruppenews guy. If India can't afford it, then it's India's problem. If India is spending it's valuable money then we are the ones getting more poor.
We may fail but atleast we try. Heard about King Solomon's story? The 8th attempt of the spider. Yes, we can, and WE WILL, and until then we will try.


I don't understand how can some people be happy at other's failures...

Oh yes, they themselves have nothing to be happy about!!