Ukraine says Malaysian airliner shot down, 295 dead: agency

[ptldM3]

Thats seriously laughable

The battle where the soviets had overwhelming troop a machine numbers but still lost 3 men to very german 1?
The battle that the soviets were only able to wage due to their sheer numbers and the supply of equipment from the allies?
You mean the battle where they had lines of their own soldiers shooting their own front line troops that were retreating?

No solider you are dismissed, time to clean to latrine

Fool statement, the heavy Soviet losses was due the superior German tanks, German tanks were almost impossible to destroy from the front, they could also target Soviet tanks from a much greater distance. You are a fool to claim that the Russians have never in their history showed any tactical thinking. Kursk was one of the most brilliant and largest military campaigns in history. Soviets losing more men and equipment does not mean that they were any less planned, it just means the Germans has superior equipment and training.

Kursk involved one of the greatest logistics chains in the history of warfare. This alone required a lot of consideration and planing. The Soviets military was spread out and exhausted, it is nothing short of brilliant of how they managed to gather all of the military equipment and move it without the Germans spotting and destroying it. The battle of Kursk lasted for days, the Soviets prepared well, the Germans were falling victim to well prepared Soviet "kill zones" these zones would allow gaps in the battlefield, the Germans would see an opening, and drive through it, the Soviets exploited the weaker side armor of German tanks and destroyed them. The battle of Kursk is one of the most complex battles in history the Soviet military used deception, logistical planing, well prepared defenses, and complex infantry as well as armor maneuvers.

No.They were denied access.The article is wrong.Corpses rott on that field while separatists loot the remains.

Now BBC is lying? BBC is not the only news outlet reporting this. There is also pictures of the investigators at the crash site.

I have proof you have claims that i have debunked with proof.

 

[Bobshouse]

Fool statement, the heavy Soviet losses was due the superior German tanks, German tanks were almost impossible to destroy from the front, they could also target Soviet tanks from a much greater distance. You are a fool to claim that the Russians have never in their history showed any tactical thinking. Kursk was one of the most brilliant and largest military campaigns in history. Soviets losing more men and equipment does not mean that they were any less planned, it just means the Germans has superior equipment and training.

Kursk involved one of the greatest logistics chains in the history of warfare. This alone required a lot of consideration and planing. The Soviets military was spread out and exhausted, it is nothing short of brilliant of how they managed to gather all of the military equipment and move it without the Germans spotting and destroying it. The battle of Kursk lasted for days, the Soviets prepared well, the Germans were falling victim to well prepared Soviet "kill zones" these zones would allow gaps in the battlefield, the Germans would see an opening, and drive through it, the Soviets exploited the weaker side armor of German tanks and destroyed them. The battle of Kursk is one of the most complex battles in history the Soviet military used deception, logistical planing, well prepared defenses, and complex infantry as well as armor maneuvers.




Now BBC is lying? BBC is not the only news outlet reporting this. There is also pictures of the investigators at the crash site.

I have proof you have claims that i have debunked with proof.

Ok so now im just going to assume your a young uneducated guy. You have not mentioned any military tactics or innovative techniques?
What so the Soviets his their equipment well in the bushes? You mean the equipments the Allies gave to the Soviets? You mean to say you consider it good military tactics to have a supply chain within your own country? What about the German supply chain? their chain reached from Berlin to the doorsteps of Moscow.
Seriously, you have not mentioned one single tactic or innovative technique in the wall of text you have written. If you consider hiding in bushes and being able to suppy your troops within your own country great Soviet military thinking, then you need to ask better of your country

 

[Schutz]

Be nice to just cho

Fool statement, the heavy Soviet losses was due the superior German tanks, German tanks were almost impossible to destroy from the front, they could also target Soviet tanks from a much greater distance. You are a fool to claim that the Russians have never in their history showed any tactical thinking. Kursk was one of the most brilliant and largest military campaigns in history. Soviets losing more men and equipment does not mean that they were any less planned, it just means the Germans has superior equipment and training.

Kursk involved one of the greatest logistics chains in the history of warfare. This alone required a lot of consideration and planing. The Soviets military was spread out and exhausted, it is nothing short of brilliant of how they managed to gather all of the military equipment and move it without the Germans spotting and destroying it. The battle of Kursk lasted for days, the Soviets prepared well, the Germans were falling victim to well prepared Soviet "kill zones" these zones would allow gaps in the battlefield, the Germans would see an opening, and drive through it, the Soviets exploited the weaker side armor of German tanks and destroyed them. The battle of Kursk is one of the most complex battles in history the Soviet military used deception, logistical planing, well prepared defenses, and complex infantry as well as armor maneuvers.




Now BBC is lying? BBC is not the only news outlet reporting this. There is also pictures of the investigators at the crash site.

I have proof you have claims that i have debunked with proof.

Can you really not use google, there are loads of articles dating from several minutes ago to yesterday with press releases saying that access was blocked by gunmen who fired warning shots.

Google

As for Kursk your clearly not that well informed, the British codebreaker/double agent John Cairncross informed the Russians that a major offensive was to take place in the area, with a few months notice aswell and the Russians built up large defences/minefields/entrenched weapons around Kursk and brought in alot more weaponry aswell, they decided to go on the defensive when the Germans first attacked so that there armoured power would be destroyed which is decisive, it was a very easy battle for them to win really as all it required was a surplus of men which the Germans having no allies/allied armies in the area and so far from home with an already depleted army couldnt counter.

 

[flamer84]

Now seps claiming that black boxes "dissapeared".

If i had to guess..."NATO/Jew-Nazi stealth monkeys" took them.

 

[Schutz]

Thats preposterous, its obvious that Mossad agents infiltrated the area in the night and teleported back to Israel, I mean the "white house" where they are planning a false flag operation with the black box.

Disclaimer
this quote can not be taken by news agencies (RT) and used as the truth..although I am sure that you will anyway.

 

[Meengla]

RIP for the dead people. How tragic! But please don't ruin Malaysian Airline for this--they are the VICTIM!

When I first heard of the downing of this plane over eastern Ukraine my immediate suspicion was that the rebels had done that: They have been shooting down the planes and been gloating about those. But I also thought this was a tragic mistake--a mistake made by a rag tag militia without enough training--and probably drunk quite often. I think my initial suspicion was correct.

Someone must be made answerable for this! At the least Putin should make sure those who shot this down are held accountable and given severe punishment.

Yes, Ukraine gains the most from this tragic incident but this kind of logic that those who gain the most are the culprit is often not valid.

I don't know the ethnic dimensions of eastern Ukraine enough to comment upon whether the rebels should be supported or not. But they can't be allowed to be armed with sophisticated weapons to act as threat to the regional and world peace.

 

[nvKyleBrown]

I am convinced this was a mistaken identity shoot by the separatists. It would have been 1 million times more ironic if they had accidentally bagged an Aeroflot jet.

 

[ptldM3]

Ok so now im just going to assume your a young uneducated guy.

I'm going to assume you're a young uneducated and mentally challenged guy.

You have not mentioned any military tactics or innovative techniques?

Yes i have, i have mentioned plenty. The tank kill zones, logistics, defenses, ect. The Soviets launched two famous offensive pushes at Kurst that ended in German defeat in both operations and that would be operation Kutuzov and operation Polkovodets. You are completely ignorant of all things military and it shows. The battle of Kursk lasted for nearly two weeks, the battlefield was always moving, in fact it was many battle, the Soviets had well prepared lines of defenses that caused the German heavy loses, the Soviet also pushed their way through German lines.

So far i have backed every claim while you have blew hot air.

What so the Soviets his their equipment well in the bushes? You mean the equipments the Allies gave to the Soviets?

Most of the Equipment the Soviets used was Soviet.

You mean to say you consider it good military tactics to have a supply chain within your own country?

Yes, the fact that you do not consider this a good tactic or planning strategy shows how ignorant you are in the subject. Without a good supply chain the Soviets would not have been able to concentrate as many men and machines at Kursk thus the Germans would have likely won the war. There is a reason why the Soviets massed at Kursk.

What about the German supply chain? their chain reached from Berlin to the doorsteps of Moscow.

What about them? We are talking about the Soviets and not the Germans. The reason for the German success was that they moved east in three armies, the Soviets were unprepared and faced three large armies.

Seriously, you have not mentioned one single tactic or innovative technique in the wall of text you have written.

Of course i have, you just demonstrated that you cant read.

If you consider hiding in bushes and being able to suppy your troops within your own country great Soviet military thinking, then you need to ask better of your country

Right because the nearly two week battle meant nothing? In your head the Soviets just got a mass of men and machines and simply pushed into the Germans when in reality there was offensive maneuvers, defensive lines, tactical retreats, ect.

 

[ptldM3]

Be nice to just cho



Can you really not use google, there are loads of articles dating from several minutes ago to yesterday with press releases saying that access was blocked by gunmen who fired warning shots.

Google

And your point is what? Another member made a claim that there was no access for investigators. That was proven to be false, with this thing called a source, from the BBC at that. Do you to want to argue that the BBC and many other news outlets are lying when they are saying that investigators have reached the crash site?

As for Kursk your clearly not that well informed, the British codebreaker/double agent John Cairncross informed the Russians that a major offensive was to take place in the area, with a few months notice aswell and the Russians built up large defences/minefields/entrenched weapons around Kursk and brought in alot more weaponry aswell, they decided to go on the defensive when the Germans first attacked so that there armoured power would be destroyed which is decisive, it was a very easy battle for them to win really as all it required was a surplus of men which the Germans having no allies/allied armies in the area and so far from home with an already depleted army couldnt counter.

The Soviet already knew most everything everything that British told them. The Soviets had their own code breakers and spies. The Soviets intercepted and broke German, Japanese, French, US, and Italian codes even prior to WW2.


Read:


Soviet codebreakers of WWII - Christos military and ...

During this period the Soviet codebreakers were able to exploit the codes of several foreign nations including Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, USA, Poland and many others. The main target was Japan due to the military incidents in the Far East between the Soviet forces and the Kwantung Army.

And yes, the Soviets did have double agents, in that regard you are right. This just demonstrates how vast their intelligence program was. Intelligence and troop concentrations aside the battle of Kursk was one of the most complex battles in history, are you going to argue that the Soviets somehow defeated the Germans by simply having more men and machines like another member here is arguing?

The British information about Kursk was already known by the Soviets because of their spy network so in reality British code breakers had no effect on the battle of Kursk. Not to mention the Soviets had their own code breakers which has only recently been revealed.


Soviet codebreakers of WWII - Christos military and ...

Apart from general warnings about impending German actions the Brits also sent more detailed reports. In April ’43 they transmitted a report sent by General von Weichs to Foreign Armies East that revealed the main points of the German plan for the battle of Kursk. In October of the same year they informed the Soviet authorities about the Abwehr’s Klatt network.

Although the British authorities were careful to hide the source of their reports the Soviets already knew about Bletchley Park and the Enigma codebreaking through their spy network. During WWII Kim Philby and Anthony Blunt passed along information on Abwehr ciphers while John Cairncross was able to infiltrate Bletchley Park.

 

[Informant]

Russia fucked up big time.

 

[Bobshouse]

Time is running out to collect those bodies

Its over 30 degrees over there

Animals are going to start feeding on the dead

Putin needs to pull his finger out NOW!!!!!

 

[gau8av]

f@ck what CNN and the western propaganda machine says, the militia should use this to draw the attention of the world on the atrocities being committed by the puppet regime

and it's begun to happen as well, saw something on CNN where the reporter was forced to talk about the situation there and the regime crimes against the people and was unable to paint it all as "russian terrorists"

it was telling that Obama warned of "misinformation" in his address as well, he's obviously scared the truth may come out

 

[ptldM3]

Russia fucked up big time.

Really? Based on what? So far we know nothing, despite all of the theories and finger pointing nothing is clear.

Ukraine makes wild accusations on a daily basis, first they claim all victims in Odessa were Russians then they deny the Ukrainian military is killing civilians, they then murder, arrest and kidnap Russian journalist which they laughably deny, they deny the UN report of refugees, ect.

Ukraine is playing the victim yet there is photo and video evidence of the ukrainian military with the Buk system in the area of the accident; moreover, Ukraine has shot down a Russian airliner which they initially denied. If the rebels shot down the airliner the Ukrainians also have some questions to answer. Such as:

Why bring a Buk air defense system into the battle when the rebels have no aircraft and the chances of the Buk being captured or abandoned is high. Very suspicious and irresponsible.

Next why divert or allow civilian aircraft over a war zone that has had many aircraft shot down.

If i did not know any better i would say Ukraine wanted the rebels to down a civilian airliner to get more world support. Think about it. Ukraine has been losing dozens of pieces of heavy equipment to the rebels, so why would the Ukrainian military bring in a Buk? The rebels do not operate aircraft of any kind and the Buk is overkill in terms of range. Next why allow airliners to fly over airspace that has seen many aircraft shot down?

If the rebels shot down the airliner they should be punished, but so should the Ukrainians for the above reasons. The Ukrainians acted irresponsibly and did everything possible to make it easy for the rebels to shoot down the aircraft. The crash also happened on Ukrainian territory, ukraine needs to man up and do something instead playing the blame game.

 

[Bearwithclaws]

I offer my condolences to the people who lost their lives. One of the saddest incidents in our times.

I hope the concerned parties in Ukraine crisis can come to an agreement. I have been viewing RT Today as well and its strange that while most of the media is showing the Gaza crisis and there has been absolutely no mention of the Ukrainian shelling in the border regions with Russia. So many innocents have died because of insane shelling by the Govt.

I don't know who is to blame for the downing of the plane but I now we can only hope no more innocent people loose their lives.

 

[F-22Raptor]

All signs point to an active coverup. A Buk system was caught on video heading towards the Russian border, the seps are contaminating, looting, and desecrating the bodies at the crime scene, and they are restricting access to the site. It's shameful stuff.