Ukraine has lost almost its entire Navy, 54 out of 67 ships are belong to us

[LegionnairE]

I don't understand what makes you think you have the edge over Russian Air Force. They have their awacs. Plus your radar is inferior to the one they have deployed on Su35.

Yeah, but how many Su35s they have? very few, bulk of their fleet consists of mostly outdated planes like Mi29s, Mig31s while even our F4 2020 Terminators went through serious modernisation. I don't know how are we going to part with these babies once F35s are introduced

What I'm saying is that they will lose more planes than us no matter what they do. Su27s will be a problem but I'm confident we can improvise.

 

[Shah9]

@LegionnairE Are you saying Turkey is capable of defending themselves before Russia reaches "★ Shock and Awe" style or defeating them alone in wars between the black sea and land?

 

[xenon54 out]

@LegionnairE Are you saying Turkey is capable of defending themselves before reaches the Russia "★ Shock and Awe" style or defeating them alone in wars between the black sea and land?

Turkey can easly defend itself against Russia believe me, we are a whole another calibre than Ukraine or Georgia.

And pls dont come up again with ''but Russia will send 8000 Nukes to Turkey'' bs, we are not in kindergarden.

 

[LegionnairE]

I'm just saying this

We can take out all their naval assets but we can't be very effective without Ukraine's support in Crimea. Not before LHD project is finished. We can defend our homeland there's no question about that.

I'm thinking at this point we should start some cooperation betwen Ukrainian military and Turkish SSM. If we sell them MİLGEM corvettes and a few FACs and include them in a few more projects they should be able to hold their own.

 

[vostok]

but Russia will send 8000 Nukes to Turkey'' bs, we are not in kindergarden.

Why 8000? I think 10-20 is enough.

 

[Span]

Yeah, but how many Su35s they have? very few, bulk of their fleet consists of mostly outdated planes like Mi29s, Mig31s while even our F4 2020 Terminators went through serious modernisation.
What I'm saying is that they will lose more planes than us no matter what they do. Su27s will be a problem but I'm confident we can improvise.

As the conflict progresses, fleet availability assumes a much larger role in the outcome. The odds are undoubtedly in favor of Russia, even though it is unlikely an event of conflict would arise.

You must acknowledge Turkish Air force is not the sole airforce that has gone through modernisation. So has Russia. And I find it greatly amusing when you term Mig29 as an outdated fighter, when it is the F4 which, despite going through 'serious modernisation', is technologically inferior to the Mig29. Infact, the airframe of F4 is actually older than the Mig29's.

You are living on the wrong side of reality if you reckon you can defend Turkey in conventional warfare without NATO's military support, if Russia is to initiate a full fledged war, which is very unlikely. And neither do I support it personally.

 

[LegionnairE]

@Span, what kind of modernisation did the Mig29 go through exactly?

We have 240 F16s either went through CCIP modernisation and became block50+ or directly procured block 50+ We have their source codes and we pretty much produce every part of the plane at TAI... I don't think we have brought anything from america in the last batch of 30 F16s...

I think we can keep producing F16s in a prolonged conflict but it won't be necessary as F35s will enter inventory in a couple of years. I'd like to see Ibris-Es trying to get a lock on our planes then. But even with the current inventory I'm sure that in a small skirmish they'll lose a hell of a lot more planes than we will.

I know F4E 2020 Terminators' airframes are really old but I'm still confident they can and will outpreform planes like Su25 in ground attack and SEAD/DEAD roles.

 

[TurAr]

Why 8000? I think 10-20 is enough.

Think of them as suicide buttons, then you'll see even 1 is enough.

 

[SiCiSi]

Turkey can easly defend itself against Russia believe me, we are a whole another calibre than Ukraine or Georgia.

And pls dont come up again with ''but Russia will send 8000 Nukes to Turkey'' bs, we are not in kindergarden.

If by defend itself you mean last a few hours, then yes youre right.

And we would never send 8000 nukes your way, a few hundred would be fine to reduce all your culture and history to ash.

 

[Span]

@Span, what kind of modernisation did the Mig29 go through exactly?

We have 240 F16s either went through CCIP modernisation and became block50+ or directly procured block 50+ We have their source codes and we pretty much produce every part of the plane at TAI... I don't think we have brought anything from america in the last batch of 30 F16s...

I think we can keep producing F16s in a prolonged conflict but it won't be necessary as F35s will enter inventory in a couple of years. I'd like to see Ibris-Es trying to get a lock on our planes then. But even with the current inventory I'm sure that in a small skirmish they'll lose a hell of a lot more planes than we will.

I know F4E 2020 Terminators' airframes are really old but I'm still confident they can and will outpreform planes like Su25 in ground attack and SEAD/DEAD roles.

I was referring to the modernisation of the Russian Airforce as a whole, not mig29 specifically. Though the project of upgrading 150 of them to SMT standards was initiated, it couldn't be effectively pursued due to budgetary constraints, if my memory serves me right.

F16 block50+ indeed is superior in terms of avionics and BVR capability when compared to either mig29 or su27, but that doesn't guarantee a win in case of a confrontation between the two. (Self explanatory I believe, you would obviously know the other factors contributing to an effective engagement)

Well if you're keen to compare the f4 SEAD capabilities, kindly take su34, instead of su25, to simulate the SEAD role and let me know the outcome.

Irbis E may not get a lock on F35, but the Zhuk AE might. And please don't speculate on the superiority of the F35 just yet. Going by the same logic, one could put up PAK FA on the table, whose prototype has been recently handed to the Russian Airforce. But it doesn't make sense to bank on military hardware that hasn't been delivered yet.

The primary advantage that the Russian Airforce currently enjoys over your nation's is numerical superiority. And by a HUGE margin. That said, I tend to agree it'll incur losses as well, big time may be, or may not, you just cannot speculate on the important factors determining the outcome, like serviceability issues or fleet availability in case of a prolonged conflict. However, the odds are in their favor.

 

[notorious_eagle]

I was referring to the modernisation of the Russian Airforce as a whole, not mig29 specifically. Though the project of upgrading 150 of them to SMT standards was initiated, it couldn't be effectively pursued due to budgetary constraints, if my memory serves me right.

F16 block50+ indeed is superior in terms of avionics and BVR capability when compared to either mig29 or su27, but that doesn't guarantee a win in case of a confrontation between the two. (Self explanatory I believe, you would obviously know the other factors contributing to an effective engagement)

Well if you're keen to compare the f4 SEAD capabilities, kindly take su34, instead of su25, to simulate the SEAD role and let me know the outcome.

Irbis E may not get a lock on F35, but the Zhuk AE might. And please don't speculate on the superiority of the F35 just yet. Going by the same logic, one could put up PAK FA on the table, whose prototype has been recently handed to the Russian Airforce. But it doesn't make sense to bank on military hardware that hasn't been delivered yet.

The primary advantage that the Russian Airforce currently enjoys over your nation's is numerical superiority. And by a HUGE margin. That said, I tend to agree it'll incur losses as well, big time may be, or may not, you just cannot speculate on the important factors determining the outcome, like serviceability issues or fleet availability in case of a prolonged conflict. However, the odds are in their favor.

You are forgetting a major Ace up the Sleeve of the Russians. Its there Ground Air Defence Units. Those S300 and S400 batteries can do damage far above their weight before they die out. They will take a huge bite out of any adversaries Air Power. Besides that, you are forgetting another major point.

Before any aerial combat even takes place, Strategic Rocket Forces will rain some serious steel in the form of ballistic and cruise missiles on the enemy's airbases and C&C. If there is one thing we know about these guys is that there missiles are good, very good and they know exactly where to point them. They would have largely degraded the capabilities of their adversaries before the enemy fires a single bullet. The Russians for all their misgivings are serious military operators, NATO knows this and respects them.

 

[LegionnairE]

I was referring to the modernisation of the Russian Airforce as a whole, not mig29 specifically. Though the project of upgrading 150 of them to SMT standards was initiated, it couldn't be effectively pursued due to budgetary constraints, if my memory serves me right.

Even in SMT configuraiton Mig29 is far from the technological level of an F16 Block50+... technically russian planes are no way inferior, all twin-engine, long range fighters but I'm still holding onto my argument that most of them are technologically outdated.

F16 block50+ indeed is superior in terms of avionics and BVR capability when compared to either mig29 or su27, but that doesn't guarantee a win in case of a confrontation between the two...

Fair enough

Well if you're keen to compare the f4 SEAD capabilities, kindly take su34, instead of su25, to simulate the SEAD role and let me know the outcome.

Well, they are actually pretty comperable ..and su34 can carry more Kh-31s than F4 2020 Terminator can carry AGM-88 Harms. Okay genius, you win this one but the fact is Russia has a lot more to lose, they got big-*** radar & communications complexes and integrated air defence systems and all...

The primary advantage that the Russian Airforce currently enjoys over your nation's is numerical superiority. And by a HUGE margin. That said, I tend to agree it'll incur losses as well, big time may be, or may not, you just cannot speculate on the important factors determining the outcome, like serviceability issues or fleet availability in case of a prolonged conflict. However, the odds are in their favor.

dude, they lost around 9 jets in Georgia(most if not all were su24s from what it seems) according to neutral sources, and all pilots were 40+ year old guys. They've been through a lot of crap in 1990s and 2000s, from what I can gather their best pilots are still veterans of Soviet era. If we look at the numbers they outnumber us like 3 to 1 in the air but that is a very deceptive point of view. I believe in reality the gap is much closer.

About PAK-FA, I don't like PAK-FA.. bigger airframe isn't answer to anything and I have serious doubts about everything except the radar of that plane. F35 isn't just a shrunk version of F22. There are many revolutionary things on F35 from helmet to distributed aperature system to the P/W efficiency of the engine. It's a piece of art.