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Ukraine crisis: 'Russia has launched a great war'

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Ukraine crisis: 'Russia has launched a great war'
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The pro-Russian rebels have been making gains in recent days
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Ukraine crisis
Ukraine's defence minister has accused Russia of launching a "great war" that could claim tens of thousands of lives.

Russia dismissed the comments, saying they only pulled the Ukrainian people further into a bloody civil conflict.

The comments came after Ukrainian troops were forced to flee Luhansk airport in the east of the country amid an offensive by pro-Russian rebels.

Meanwhile, crisis talks between Ukraine officials, rebels and Russian envoys have broken up without agreement.

"A great war has arrived at our doorstep - the likes of which Europe has not seen since World War Two," Ukrainian Defence Minister Valeriy Heletey wrote on Facebook on Monday.

"Unfortunately, the losses in such a war will be measured not in the hundreds but thousands and tens of thousands," he added.

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The fighting in Donetsk has intensified in recent days, with abot 700 Ukrainian soldiers taken prisoner
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Ukraine's army were forced to flee Luhansk airport after an attack by what they said were Russian tanks
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Russia has repeatedly denied Ukrainian and Western accusations that it is providing troops and equipment to the rebels.

Russia's foreign ministry said it was "hard to believe that such statements can be made by the defence minister of a civilised state".

Meanwhile, UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon said on Tuesday that there could be "no military solution" to the crisis in Ukraine.

The situation was "very chaotic and dangerous" and required "a political dialogue for a political solution" that was sustainable, he told journalists during a visit to New Zealand.

'Overt aggression'
On Monday, Ukraine's army said it had been forced to withdraw from Luhansk airport after it was attacked by Russian tanks.

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said the incident was "direct, overt aggression against Ukraine from the neighbouring state".

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Vladimir Putin tells the BBC the Minsk talks are "a very important process"

The retreat came amid a series of gains by pro-Russian rebels in both the Luhansk and Donetsk regions, and further south around the port of Mariupol.

As many as 680 soldiers had been captured by rebels in recent clashes around Donetsk, according to state news agency UNIAN.

A senior Ukrainian official told the AFP news agency that Russia's goal is to "destabilise [Ukraine] and create a land corridor to Crimea", the southern peninsula annexed by Russia in March.

But Russian President Vladimir Putin said Europe was ignoring the Ukrainian military's "direct targeting" of civilians in eastern Ukraine.

Rebels seeking special status
The latest round of crisis talks got underway in Belarus on Monday but after several hours of negotiations, they were adjourned until Friday.

"This is just the beginning of the process," Andrei Purgin, a leader of the Donetsk People's Republic rebel group, told Russian TV.

Rebel representatives are said to have softened their demand for full independence, telling Russian media they were seeking a "special status" for their regions within Ukraine.

This would leave them in charge of security and give them amnesty from prosecution, while also recognising "deepening economic integration with Russia", the rebels said.

Correspondents say their demands would mean the de facto division of the country, with the government in Kiev looking to secure closer economic ties with the EU.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, meanwhile, said he was counting on the talks to focus on "agreeing an immediate and unconditional ceasefire".

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War in eastern Ukraine: The human cost
  • At least 2,593 people killed since mid-April (not including 298 passengers and crew of Malaysian Airlines MH17, shot down in the area) - UN report on 29 August
  • 951 civilians killed in Donetsk region alone, official regional authorities said on 20 August
  • In some particularly dangerous places, such as Luhansk region, victims are said to have been buried informally, making accurate counts difficult
  • Rebels (and some military sources) accuse the government of concealing true numbers
  • 155,800 people have fled elsewhere in Ukraine while at least 188,000 have gone to Russia.
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Are you in Ukraine? How have you been affected by the current situation there? You can emails us at haveyoursay@bbc.co.uk to share your experiences with us.
 
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If Russia has launched a great war, then Ukraine has already lost.

But Russia has not.

Ukraine are just unable to accept that they are losing to the pro-Russia rebels.

Is there some Russian support in terms of equipment and training? Maybe. But that doesn't mean much, the KMT was supported by the entire Western world, but they still lost the Chinese Civil War.

When the West openly supports one side, that actually hurts their cause. Because the impression is that the faction they choose to support will be seen as Western loyalists.
 
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So its ok that rebels in Syria can get support and hardware from US and Nato which doesn't have anything to do with the region but its not ok that Russians supporting their own ethnic population ????

Is there any explanation for this double standards ????

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If Russia starts a war the whole world will know. Ukraine is just not happy about losing a fight with rebels. Those are not russian forces ( not in direct conflict )Otherwise Russian forces would have finished the war months ago :big_boss:
 
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If Russia starts a war the whole world will know. Ukraine is just not happy about losing a fight with rebels. Those are not russian forces ( not in direct conflict )Otherwise Russian forces would have finished the war months ago :big_boss:

Exactly.

If Russia decided to start a war with Ukraine, it would be over in a few days.

I don't know what the Ukrainian junta is thinking when they issue this rhetoric, do they actually think anyone on Earth is going to risk a nuclear war with Russia to save Ukraine.

No chance. The USA and the EU have already comprehensively ruled out any military response.

If the Ukrainian junta is clever they should realize it was a mistake to piss off Russia, and that they should just have left the elected President of the Ukraine as he was, instead of staging a coup and throwing him out based simply on the sentiments of Western Ukrainians. And ignoring the fact that he was elected by the majority of Eastern and Southern Ukrainians.
 
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No chance. The USA and the EU have already comprehensively ruled out any military response..
Correct !!! but EU & Nato ruled out militery response unless and untill absolutely necessary !!!
Ao its Ukraine's job to make it necessary. Whom do you think is writing these speeches ;)

Even in the case of actual Russian intervention there will be NO direct Nato response unless they want to start WW3. Nato will provide hardware and support to Ukraine but that wont change the result.
More sanctions on Russia !!!!

Its all American dirty politics. They simply couldn't stand the improving Russian-EU relations and economies which could have unsettled American Uni-polar world. Thats the reason behind all of this mess. EU could have been more sensible in this conflict. They actually hurting their own economy.

And Don't forget Same USA acted alike in Cuba crisis. If they cant stand Russian missiles next to their border why they think Russia will allow Nato presence in their very next border !!!!!
 
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Ukraine has lost the rebel held territory.Accept it and move on. Consider it as a price to pay for switching allegiance to West from Russia.

To be more precise, it's the price they paid for staging a coup and throwing out a government that was legitimately elected with majority support from the Eastern and Southern Ukrainians.

They knew that, yet they still staged a coup and threw them out, for the interests of the Western Ukrainians and the Western countries.

So well, the Eastern and Southern Ukrainians were understandably pissed off, the latter has already split away, and the former looks set to follow soon.
 
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Ukraine has lost the rebel held territory.Accept it and move on. Consider it as a price to pay for switching allegiance to West from Russia.
Not that simple. Ukraine will see that enough blood is spilled to highlight the crisis to their advantages.

Actual solution would have been called for fresh elections under intonational and neutral observers. Its would have been hard for Russia to bully a elected government but this is no elected government ;) !!!

But one thing we all must accept these rebels have already won "The Best Armed rebels" award by courtesy of mother Russia :D
 
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Not that simple. Ukraine will see that enough blood is spilled to highlight the crisis to their advantages.

Actual solution would have been called for fresh elections under intonational and neutral observers. Its would have been hard for Russia to bully a elected government but this is no elected government ;) !!!

But one thing we all must accept these rebels have already won "The Best Armed rebels" award by courtesy of mother Russia :D


I think Russia can show flexibility by promising to provide subsidized gas to Ukraine (same as before) in return for deescalation by Ukranian forces. The rebel held territory will remain as semi independent areas inside Ukraine much like South Ossetia.
 
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Don't post propaganda OP. A "great war" requires there to be great powers on both sides of the conflict. Ukraine is not a great power, and no great power will enter this border skirmish on her behalf because the morality behind Ukraine's motives are murky and questionable.
 
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