UK rape case - some thoughts on inaccuracies

[r3alist]

there is a false dichotomy inherent in much of the discourse, i just want to address some of the key points so people can be more aware of them, not that i want to take away from how heinous these crimes were, and everything must be done to stop this from occurring again, but i found some of the discussion in the media quite venomous in places.


race is central to the crime, i.e. pakistani men and white women - fair enough, this is accurate enough, what my objection to is how come in this PC world, where race is not meant to be an issue it NOW is? in particular you have simply tonnes of evidence of black on white rape, gang rapes and crime but how often do you see a headline saying "BLACK MAN RAPES WHITE WOMEN", why does the childrens minister not mention anything about black people and their crimes like he did with pakistani people Rochdale grooming case: nothing to be gained from 'shying away from' race, says Children's Minister - Telegraph

(i am not picking on black people per se, but it is the white elephant in the room if you want to discuss this issue)

furthermore, why stop at just pakistani? were most of these men not from jhelum? were they not all form the north of england? sometimes they are muslim, sometimes they are pakistani - which one is the pertinent observation?



fear of community backlash - perhaps the most objectionable argument i have heard is that the police dropped cases because they were worried that the pakistani community would accuse the police of racism - totally absurd, an example of a false dichotomy, as if anyone WOULD object to the catching of a rapist, as if anyone would take to the streets to protest the catching of a child abuser, and as if the police are soo powerless - again another argument suggesting that the pakistani community are instilling a culture of fear into the hearts and minds of the police.

culture of silence in pakistani community - so the pakistani community are complicit in these rapes and accept it as something acceptable? really? does that apply to the black community as well who have committed far more numerous crimes as a disproportionate figure? when has a community so far spanning and diverse ever been responsible for the actions of individuals, is a pakistani in london the same as one in n.england?

the crimes of these men are being used as a surrogate for directing more than a few slanders at pakistani people, this too in an environment when race is rarely seen as an acceptable issue in crimes.

i will leave you with this from a NY times blog - this is how "big" this news seems to be, i cant remember the last time a group of black men gang raping a women was global news, but hey ho.

Pakistan’s independent media, which are usually vehement when it comes to defending the nation’s honor or pushing back against racial slurs from foreigners, have been strangely silent about the Rochdale trial. Might this be because they fear there is some truth to the claims that Pakistani attitudes toward women are regressive?

Tough Questions Over Sex Crimes for Britain's Pakistani Community - NYTimes.com

 

[mdcp]

The problem is our people when they go abroad they forget everything, family back home, culture, religion etc, so they do all nonsense. Some time i feel may be our fellow got contract to finish alchohal, gambling and girls. Much bad character to put shame on community

There is strong case of racisism, media strongly highlighted even small mistakes by our prople. They always want to degrade us and and do propaganda

So why should we give them chance to insult and humiliate us

And those our brothers living nicely they pay price so what's their fault, i think we should make ammendment in constituion any pakistani specially do anything wrong in abroad like killing, raping, looting, cheating and decieving people etc etc should be brought back in pakistan and strongly punished and others will learn lesson

 

[r3alist]

i personally think that the police should always go where the crime is, if that means pursuing blacks, pakistanis or whoever disproportionately then i wont complain, in fact who would complain?

but all of a sudden this propaganda targetting the "pakistani community" has to have a separate agenda given the politically correct world we live in, race is not meant to be an issue but there is without doubt a pecking order of what groups of people are less/more immune.

if race is an issue here, then surely it has to be an issue in other areas where you have a disproportionate group?

 

[livingdead]

i personally think that the police should always go where the crime is, if that means pursuing blacks, pakistanis or whoever disproportionately then i wont complain, in fact who would complain?

but all of a sudden this propaganda targetting the "pakistani community" has to have a separate agenda given the politically correct world we live in, race is not meant to be an issue but there is without doubt a pecking order of what groups of people are less/more immune.

if race is an issue here, then surely it has to be an issue in other areas where you have a disproportionate group?

The complain against police is, they did NOT investigate the matter when it was brought to them 2 years ago by a girl. Nobody is blaming pakistanis, rather police is being blamed for not doing its job.

The people who are blaming pakistanis/muslims are of pakistani origin themselves, white people are too scared (that they will be called racist) to open their mouth. Even when they do, they always begin with 'I am sure this is just minority of people' and always refer to a person X (x being a prominent muslim) for saying such and such thing.

 

[r3alist]

The complain against police is, they did NOT investigate the matter when it was brought to them 2 years ago by a girl. Nobody is blaming pakistanis, rather police is being blamed for not doing its job.

but one of the reasons given by the police is that they did not wish to be politically incorrect, thereby shifting the reasoning at least partially back to the "pakistani community" - this in turn creates an anti minority feeling and in particular this will be directed at the pakistani community.

secondly the "pakistani community" has been blamed of having a "conspiracy of silence" about these rapes, that is a broad brush statement.

The people who are blaming pakistanis/muslims are of pakistani origin themselves, white people are too scared (that they will be called racist) to open their mouth. Even when they do, they always begin with 'I am sure this is just minority of people' and always refer to a person X (x being a prominent muslim) for saying such and such thing.

you have had high level ministers explicitly mention pakistani people - this is remarkable because most of them are technically british, and because no other race/community is vilified in such a way.

for example, anyone who blamed the london riots on black youths would have been accused of simplistic thinking.

anyone points out the large number of black people who also rape women a lot more regularly never gets a voice - but "pakistani" has found its way to the highest levels of government - i think this is a remarkable event.

 

[livingdead]

but one of the reasons given by the police is that they did not wish to be politically incorrect, thereby shifting the reasoning at least partially back to the "pakistani community" - this in turn creates an anti minority feeling and in particular this will be directed at the pakistani community.

secondly the "pakistani community" has been blamed of having a "conspiracy of silence" about these rapes, that is a broad brush statement.



you have had high level ministers explicitly mention pakistani people - this is remarkable because most of them are technically british, and because no other race/community is vilified in such a way.

for example, anyone who blamed the london riots on black youths would have been accused of simplistic thinking.

anyone points out the large number of black people who also rape women a lot more regularly never gets a voice - but "pakistani" has found its way to the highest levels of government - i think this is a remarkable event.

No, police did not say anything like that. It is people accusing police for going slow on those asian men, because they were afraid of being called racist.

And which govt minister said it, can you tell me. It was former minister Jack Straw who was not in power who said 'white girls are considered easy meat' and was condemned by everybody, till date he has not opened his mouth again.

London riots were not blamed on black simply because riots were carried out by whites too (mostly whites, if you look at numbers).
But I agree, black is a taboo word, and even if it was done only by blacks nobody will open their mouth and say it. People are too scared, that they will be considered racist.

It is nice that pakistani muslims themselves are looking inwards and trying to understand whether it is a broader phenomena or a one off incident, and why it is happening.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01j2n2n/The_Big_Questions_Series_5_Episode_18/

 

[r3alist]

everytime i try and post a link i get access blocked 403 error, however i did have a response with links which i cannot post, for some reason.

 

[r3alist]

the first link is already in the OP, its the telegraph article.

the second instance is by someone called trevor philips who said there was a link between race (pakistani) and crime of rape of white women.

this guy is chairman of equality and human rights committee.


feel free to search for the above two cases.

sometimes its muslim, sometimes its pakistani.....

also, the london rights statistics tell us that blacks were massively over represented in the crimes.

i have some funny proof of segments of the media trying to cover this, but i cant seem to post links.