UK is not for 'Tibetan independence'

[PeaceGen]

What a f*ucking idiot. if you want to be our enemy, go ahead, we can smash your tiny brain with one finger.

You're the one making enemies here, I just accepted your invitation, fool.
Now you want to bring your friends to the fight you started, because you obviously can't (or don't dare to?) fight anyone by yourself eh little man.

oh, and btw, it's not the fact that you're Chinese and/or short in length that makes you a little man in my eyes. it's your attitude towards other cultures that does.

If you want to fight me, fly to .NL, and we'll go to a public gym together, fight eachother with thin gloves. That's my challenge, do you accept?

Develop software for free? Does it have any value? I bet it is some stupid software no one heard before.

It's hip software indeed
But I can't give you the webaddress because it contains my real name and can be used to find my living address, something I don't trust the likes of you with.

Your country invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, caused millions death, you did not do anything about, you don't care at all. And you did not do anything good for poor people, yet keep talking like saint. Ohh, son, stop talking here, go fu*ck your mother and have some fun.

don't think I didn't or don't or won't criticize my own governments for their mistakes. I have, and I will.
I don't see you correcting the mistakes of your own government at all.

and eh "go **** your mother".... that's the reply of a spoiled little brat who can't even think of effective insults. very young muslim radicalized little fools use the same insult all the time..

Brits want to maintain a strategic relationship with their biggest Asian trade partner obviously

yup, and in the early 1900s they must've not cared about the fate of Tibetans either.
Tibet is not of tactical/strategic importance to europe/US.

Have you ever been to tibet???

What do you mean by "destroy monestaries or outlaw an entire religion"???

That's what I heard from several sources the Chinese did after the annexation of Tibet.

When did CCP outlaw tibet Buddhism??? As for "destroy monestaries", all I see is contradictory since the CCP government has given tons of money to beautify those temples.

I'd like to see some evidence of that please.

As for the nazis, I cannot believe there are people this stupid to offer that remarks.

Ha, there were even Nazis who agreed Hitler was doing the wrong thing (to Jews AND Germans), so they tried to assassinate Hitler. These men are now honored each year by the German politicians.

 

[Wholegrain]

You're the one making enemies here, I just accepted your invitation, fool.
Now you want to bring your friends to the fight you started, because you obviously can't (or don't dare to?) fight anyone by yourself eh little man.

oh, and btw, it's not the fact that you're Chinese and/or short in length that makes you a little man in my eyes. it's your attitude towards other cultures that does.

If you want to fight me, fly to .NL, and we'll go to a public gym together, fight eachother with thin gloves. That's my challenge, do you accept?

It's hip software indeed
But I can't give you the webaddress because it contains my real name and can be used to find my living address, something I don't trust the likes of you with.



don't think I didn't or don't or won't criticize my own governments for their mistakes. I have, and I will.
I don't see you correcting the mistakes of your own government at all.

and eh "go **** your mother".... that's the reply of a spoiled little brat who can't even think of effective insults. very young muslim radicalized little fools use the same insult all the time..



yup, and in the early 1900s they must've not cared about the fate of Tibetans either.
Tibet is not of tactical/strategic importance to europe/US.



That's what I heard from several sources the Chinese did after the annexation of Tibet.



I'd like to see some evidence of that please.



Ha, there were even Nazis who agreed Hitler was doing the wrong thing (to Jews AND Germans), so they tried to assassinate Hitler. These men are now honored each year by the German politicians.

peacefan cannot respond to any of the arguments I made but chooses to respond to other member's posts who have weaker arguments and insults, what is he afraid of answering?

 

[k_arura]

"So it's a completely moot point."

Normally people who are insecure say these kinds of words like Pakistan on "durand line." "Case closed" as it likes to say. It ain't by a longshot and Afghans know it. And am sure India will keep reminding them too

 

[ephone]

You want to see evidence?

Just go to youtube to see those foreigners' touring videos in Tibet and you will see all of those temples, and monks, and regulars who pray along the way....

What kind of idiots are you using "heard of" stuff as evidence to accuse others???

You're the one making enemies here, I just accepted your invitation, fool.
Now you want to bring your friends to the fight you started, because you obviously can't (or don't dare to?) fight anyone by yourself eh little man.

oh, and btw, it's not the fact that you're Chinese and/or short in length that makes you a little man in my eyes. it's your attitude towards other cultures that does.

If you want to fight me, fly to .NL, and we'll go to a public gym together, fight eachother with thin gloves. That's my challenge, do you accept?



It's hip software indeed
But I can't give you the webaddress because it contains my real name and can be used to find my living address, something I don't trust the likes of you with.



don't think I didn't or don't or won't criticize my own governments for their mistakes. I have, and I will.
I don't see you correcting the mistakes of your own government at all.

and eh "go **** your mother".... that's the reply of a spoiled little brat who can't even think of effective insults. very young muslim radicalized little fools use the same insult all the time..



yup, and in the early 1900s they must've not cared about the fate of Tibetans either.
Tibet is not of tactical/strategic importance to europe/US.



That's what I heard from several sources the Chinese did after the annexation of Tibet.



I'd like to see some evidence of that please.



Ha, there were even Nazis who agreed Hitler was doing the wrong thing (to Jews AND Germans), so they tried to assassinate Hitler. These men are now honored each year by the German politicians.

 

[PeaceGen]

You want to see evidence?

Just go to youtube to see those foreigners' touring videos in Tibet and you will see all of those temples, and monks, and regulars who pray along the way....

Yea, I doubt tourists / monks would use (half-)destroyed monestaries.

What kind of idiots are you using "heard of" stuff as evidence to accuse others???

tommorow i'll search the net for something that supports what i heard.

 

[Anonymous user]

Yea, I doubt tourists / monks would use (half-)destroyed monestaries.



tommorow i'll search the net for something that supports what i heard.

Would be keen to know your views on the supporting documents I provided on the religious practices in Tibet?

 

[PeaceGen]

Would be keen to know your views on the supporting documents I provided on the religious practices in Tibet?

i'm going to take at least 1 week to review reports about the tibetan religion.

 

[PeaceGen]

I've got some time today to do some research into the Tibetan religion, and i'll post my findings here, with sources;

Human sacrifice - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Human sacrifice, including cannibalism, was thought to be practiced in Tibet prior to the arrival of Buddhism in the 7th century.[52]
The prevalence of human sacrifice in medieval Buddhist Tibet is less clear. The Lamas, as professing Buddhists, could not condone blood sacrifices, and they replaced the human victims with effigies made from dough.

You have to see things from both sides, if you refute I like to know which part of Tibet, China or Mongolia have you visited?

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/260373-uk-not-tibetan-independence-3.html#ixzz2a8dFYq5H

I haven't been to Asia at all, except for a one-night stopover in Tokyo..
All I have to go on are the reports others have made.
And I don't want to be the judge of Tibetan religion either, certainly not today's practices, that I suggest we all focus on.

As for Tibetan devil worship, it seems to be quite mysterious, take these two reports;

The Lamaling Temple, like others I visited, is painted in the most obscene colors. No inch of wall or centimeter of roof beam has been left untouched by the possibly colorblind decorators of Tibetan Buddhism’s sites of worship. Everywhere you look there’s a lashing of red or green or bright blue paint, a weirdly fitting backdrop to the frequently violent imagery of this religion: the statues of sword-wielding demons, the fiery paintings, the images of androgynous Buddhas, some with breasts, others with balls. “Peace” and “calm” are the last words that come to mind when you’re inside one of these senses-assaulting places.

The Truth About Tibetan Buddhism - Reason.com

An enigmatic aspect of Tibetan Buddhist iconography is the presence of ferocious, terrifying forms known as the wrathful deities. Though these hideous, hair-raising images seem contradictory to Buddhist ideals, they are not personifications of evil or demonic forces.

Rather, the wrathful deities are benevolent gods who symbolize the tremendous effort it takes to vanquish evil, the violence that is a fundamental reality of the cosmos and the human mind and protect the faithful by instilling terror in evil spirits.

Mahakala statue
In Sanskrit, the wrathful deities are known as dharmapalas, which means "defender of the dharma." In Tibetan, they are drag-gshed, meaning "cruel, wrathful hangman."

The Wrathful Deities of Buddhism - ReligionFacts

then there's the matter of Tibet having 2 religions (to this day), tibetan budhism and the older tibetan religion called 'bon';

Bön was the indigenous religion of Tibet before the arrival of Buddhism in the 7th century AD. Today, Bön is similar to Tibetan Buddhism. It is a matter of controversy whether Bön influenced Tibetan Buddhism or the other way around.

....

Beliefs

In its earlier forms Bön doctrine was a dualistic theism, teaching that the creation of the world was brought about by coexistent good and evil principles, but the philosophy of modern Bön is generally in accord with Buddhist non-theistic tenets. 9

However, Bön ritual includes worship, iconography, and meditation on peaceful and wrathful deities (as in Tibetan Buddhism). In addition to peaceful and wrathful deities, Bön distinguishes between "enlightened" deities and those who are still "of this world," or not fully enlightened. There are four principal peaceful deities, known as the Four Transcendent Lords. These are led by a goddess, Yum, "the Mother," followed by three male deities known as Lha, "the God," Sipa, "the Procreator," and Tönpa, "the Teacher." 10

The main Bön rituals center around the wrathful or tutelary deities (yidam), divided into Mother Tantras and Father Tantras. They are depicted with fierce expressions, many arms and legs wielding frightening weapons, and trampling enemies under their feet. As in Tibetan Buddhism, meditation on the wrathful deities is a means of understanding reality and attaining enlightenment. 11

Bön - ReligionFacts

Before Buddhism was introduced to Tibet the people there practiced the Bon religion. Tibetan Buddhism absorbed elements of Bon when it developed in the A.D. 8th century.

Bon religion is an ancient shamanist religion with esoteric rituals, exorcisms, talismans, spells, incantations, drumming, sacrifices, a pantheon gods and evil spirits, and a cult of the dead. Originating in Tibet, it predates Buddhism there, has greatly influenced Tibetan Buddhism and is still practiced by the Bonpo people. Prayer flags, prayers wheels, sky burials, festival devil dances, spirit traps, rubbing holy stones—things that are associated with Tibetan religion and Tibetan Buddhism—all evolved from the Bon religion. The Tibetan scholar David Snellgrove once said “Every Tibetan is a bonpo at heart.”

HISTORY OF TIBETAN BUDDHISM - China | Facts and Details

I've also found a report about how pre-annexation Tibet had corrupt top clerics courtesy of the Chinese;

The biggest ******* fairy tale of all, by the way, was that pre-invasion Tibet was a Shangri-la paradise of love and peace. It was a theocracy. Direct rule by the church, with massive control over property and power and absolute authority to rule over people's lives.
Authority given by the Chinese, by the way. The Dalai Lama (the first one to actually use that title, not the current one) was established as the "head" of Tibetan Buddhism with the help of a large chinese imperial army, that assisted him in seizing monasteries and properties he had no natural claim to, and destroyed Sutras (holy books) that could be used to question his claims to power.

.....

So how the **** do we get from that to the peaceful and loving perspective we see today? There's two parts to the answer to that question.
First, the Tibetan exile. Being forced out of Tibet, and material and political power, was without question the best thing that ever happened to Tibetan Buddhism. Political power corrupts. Removing it, and the hopelessly corrupt system that surrounding the Tibetan Theocracy, allowed for a reform of the whole structure of Tibetan Buddhism, not to mention the influx of new, western ideas and synthesis that has made Vajrayana Buddhism one of the most dynamic and spiritually powerful forms of Buddhism to emerge in a long time.

Sex, Corruption and Violence in Old Tibet I don't want… | RPGpundit on Xanga

the above is confirmed by this source;

But what of Tibetan Buddhism? Is it not an exception to this sort of strife? And what of the society it helped to create? Many Buddhists maintain that, before the Chinese crackdown in 1959, old Tibet was a spiritually oriented kingdom free from the egotistical lifestyles, empty materialism, and corrupting vices that beset modern industrialized society. Western news media, travel books, novels, and Hollywood films have portrayed the Tibetan theocracy as a veritable Shangri-La. The Dalai Lama himself stated that “the pervasive influence of Buddhism” in Tibet, “amid the wide open spaces of an unspoiled environment resulted in a society dedicated to peace and harmony. We enjoyed freedom and contentment.” 4

A reading of Tibet’s history suggests a somewhat different picture. “Religious conflict was commonplace in old Tibet,” writes one western Buddhist practitioner. “History belies the Shangri-La image of Tibetan lamas and their followers living together in mutual tolerance and nonviolent goodwill. Indeed, the situation was quite different. Old Tibet was much more like Europe during the religious wars of the Counterreformation.” 5 In the thirteenth century, Emperor Kublai Khan created the first Grand Lama, who was to preside over all the other lamas as might a pope over his bishops. Several centuries later, the Emperor of China sent an army into Tibet to support the Grand Lama, an ambitious 25-year-old man, who then gave himself the title of Dalai (Ocean) Lama, ruler of all Tibet.

Friendly Fuedalism - The Tibet Myth

the one thing I did find about Tibetan religion that I truly did not like is the following report;

.....
The first devout Buddhists I encountered looked neither healthy nor happy. They were walking from their villages in southern Tibet to Jokhang Temple in Lhasa, Tibetan Buddhism’s holiest site, and the journey had taken them nearly three months. Which isn’t surprising considering that with every third or fourth step they took, they got down on their knees and then fully prostrated themselves on the ground, lying flat on their bellies and burying their faces in the dirt, before getting back up, taking a few more steps, and doing the painful prostration thing again.

It looked life-zappingly exhausting. They moved at a snail’s pace. Their foreheads were stained grey from such frequent, unforgiving contact with the bruising earth. They wore wooden planks on their hands, which made a deathly clatter every time they hurled themselves downwards. I’d like to see Jennifer Aniston try this. Tibetan Buddhism sans latte.

The Truth About Tibetan Buddhism - Reason.com

on the question of enslavement in Tibet, i'm going to trust this source;

Pre-1950 Tibet has been described as a society in which the concept of human rights was unknown:[1][2] it was ruled by a theocracy,[3] beset by serfdorm and a form of slavery,[4][5] had a caste-like social hierarchy,[6] lacked a proper judicial system[7] and enforced penal mutilations.[8] However, it is claimed that capital punishment and mutilation decreased considerably with the increased influence of Buddhism, and were finally banned by the 13th Dalai Lama.[9]
Abuses of human rights in post-1950 Tibet include freedom of religion, belief, and association. Specific abuses include arbitrary arrest and maltreatment in custody, including torture. Freedom of the Press in the PRC is still absent, and Tibet's media is tightly controlled by the Chinese leadership,[10] making it difficult to determine accurately the scope of human rights abuses.[11] A series of reports published in the late 1980s claimed that China was forcing Tibetans to adhere to strict birth control programs that included forced abortions, sterilizations, and even infanticide.[12]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Tibet

Bottom line, in my view, is that Tibetan religion 1940-now is not as evil as Chinese sources claim.