What's new

UK Defence Ministry: Implications of Turkish UAV doctrines are game-changing.

dBSPL

SENIOR MEMBER
Joined
Mar 2, 2018
Messages
7,661
Reaction score
28
Country
Turkey
Location
Turkey
The Defence Secretary of UK presented a keynote speech at the Air and Space Power Conference 2020. Some of his topics were remarkable.

***
(...)

"For too many years we simply sat back admiring the problem of hostile states and other actors outmanoeuvring us below the threshold of conventional conflict, instead of making the tough choices necessary to unmask and counter our opponents in the interests of promoting our national peace, purpose, and prosperity.

But we cannot pick and choose isolated battles any longer. We cannot be focused on fighting the last war. Instead, Global Britain must step in in an increasingly unstable world of constant competition

That means asking ourselves what the air and space environment of 2030, 2040 or even 2050 will look like. How will we operate? How will we fight? What are the attitudes? What are the ranges? What are the altitudes? What are sunset and sunrise capabilities that we need in the battle-space of tomorrow? What will be the role of our aircraft?

More particularly what will the role of our air and space forces be in the world of constant competition?

We need to think carefully about the threats and opportunities we face in the new domains of warfare, such as cyber, a theme that runs right through this conference.

We need to look at the lessons of others. Look how Turkey has been operating in Libya where it has used Bayraktar TB-2 UAVs since mid-2019

Those UAVs have conducted intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance and targeting operations against frontlines, supply lines and logistics bases.

In July last year they struck the Libyan National Army controlled Jufrah airfield destroying several command and control nodes as well as two transport aircraft.

Or consider Turkey’s involvement in Syria and its use of Electronic Warfare (EW), lightly-armed drones and smart ammunition to stop tanks, armoured cars and air defence systems in their tracks

According to reports, Assad regime suffered heavy losses “3000 soldiers, 151 tanks, eight helicopters, three drones, three fighter jets vehicles and trucks, eight aerial defense systems…and one headquarters, among other military equipment and facilities.” Even if only half of these claims are true the implications are game changing.


Similarly, consider Russian activity in the Ukraine where according to open source they’ve used electronic warfare to jam enemy communications locate and target troops with artillery, turn Ukrainian tech against their own operators, and sent out false GPS and even used psychological warfare by sending texts to individual Ukrainian soldiers

Even in the midst of Covid, our adversaries have continued using social media tools to spread malicious misinformation and muddy the narrative.

If we’re to attain information advantage we must work out how we can be as nimble as our rivals.

Acting at pace in an era when disruptive capability is advancing exponentially through the aggressive application of machine learning, artificial intelligence and quantum computing.

That’s why we’ve just signed a £65m contract for the production of our first ground-breaking Protector aircraft.

It’s a major gear shift, replacing Reaper with Protector, a remotely piloted aircraft with an incredible endurance which will give us global reach. It is due to be in service by 2024

As we look towards tomorrow we must also understand the new parameters we’re operating in.

What is the philosophy of this new battle-space?

The doctrine of these new domains is embryonic and evolving rapidly. So what are the new rules?

What sort of kit will we need? What sort of people do we require? What should our aspirations be?

Our opponents are constantly seeking to go higher, faster and further

We know they’ve got thermobaric weapons.

We know they are developing hypersonic glide vehicles.

We know UAVs and deep strike pose us a lethal threat, however, dispersed your forces are.

We know increasing numbers of actors have the ability to hit us with precision and at range.

And we know, all the while, that Russia and China are developing offensive weapons in space, a major cause for concern given that satellites don’t just provide our global communications, critical intelligence, and surveillance and navigation

But underpin our critical national infrastructure, from mobile phones to cashpoint to the stock market

That’s why, in the future, what’s above you will be often more important than what’s in front of you.

So hiding and finding will be at the centre of tomorrow’s battlefield.

If you can be found, you can be killed."

(...)


The whole conversation is in the link.--> https://www.gov.uk/government/speec...ch-at-the-air-and-space-power-conference-2020
 
. .
Only if we can establish aerial superiority with a layered defence.

There was no our layered defence in Libya but Bayraktar TB-2 UCAVs changed the game in Libya
Egypt is dreaming about SIRTE with land invasion and M1A1 Tanks will be target for Bayraktar TB-2 UCAVs

SIRTE is 1.000 km away from Egypt and Egyptian S300VM AD Systems are far away from SIRTE
and if MIG-29s attack TB-2 UCAVs in Libya , then TURAF will be in Libya to hunt MIG-29s

so Turkish UCAVs are game changer
 
.
Very interesting. Thank you for sharing.

According to reports, Assad regime suffered heavy losses “3000 soldiers, 151 tanks, eight helicopters, three drones, three fighter jets vehicles and trucks, eight aerial defense systems…and one headquarters, among other military equipment and facilities.”
 
.
Only if we can establish aerial superiority with a layered defence.
UCAV's / MALE's deployed in numbers can really put a strain on a traditional airforce/IAD's. They'd be bogged down with low sortie rates while the UCAV's draw circles over their bases.

Sure you'd be shooting more of them down but UCAV's win at the end just because of the cost proposition, considering an F-35 unit costs around $94mil while a Wing Loong unit costs anywhere around 2-5 mil.
 
.
This is all true, but it is visible that the arrival of Mig jets in Libya significantly decreased the use of TB2s. Or am I wrong?
 
.
a week ago Bayraktar TB-2 UCAVs destroyed PANTSIR Air Defense System in JUFRA

and JUFRA Air Base hosts MIG-29s

btw MIG-29s are belong to LNA and if MIG-29s attack TB-2 UCAVs then TURAF F-16s will be in action against MIG-29s in Libya
 
Last edited:
.
The Defence Secretary of UK presented a keynote speech at the Air and Space Power Conference 2020. Some of his topics were remarkable.

***
(...)

"For too many years we simply sat back admiring the problem of hostile states and other actors outmanoeuvring us below the threshold of conventional conflict, instead of making the tough choices necessary to unmask and counter our opponents in the interests of promoting our national peace, purpose, and prosperity.

But we cannot pick and choose isolated battles any longer. We cannot be focused on fighting the last war. Instead, Global Britain must step in in an increasingly unstable world of constant competition

That means asking ourselves what the air and space environment of 2030, 2040 or even 2050 will look like. How will we operate? How will we fight? What are the attitudes? What are the ranges? What are the altitudes? What are sunset and sunrise capabilities that we need in the battle-space of tomorrow? What will be the role of our aircraft?

More particularly what will the role of our air and space forces be in the world of constant competition?

We need to think carefully about the threats and opportunities we face in the new domains of warfare, such as cyber, a theme that runs right through this conference.

We need to look at the lessons of others. Look how Turkey has been operating in Libya where it has used Bayraktar TB-2 UAVs since mid-2019

Those UAVs have conducted intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance and targeting operations against frontlines, supply lines and logistics bases.

In July last year they struck the Libyan National Army controlled Jufrah airfield destroying several command and control nodes as well as two transport aircraft.

Or consider Turkey’s involvement in Syria and its use of Electronic Warfare (EW), lightly-armed drones and smart ammunition to stop tanks, armoured cars and air defence systems in their tracks

According to reports, Assad regime suffered heavy losses “3000 soldiers, 151 tanks, eight helicopters, three drones, three fighter jets vehicles and trucks, eight aerial defense systems…and one headquarters, among other military equipment and facilities.” Even if only half of these claims are true the implications are game changing.


Similarly, consider Russian activity in the Ukraine where according to open source they’ve used electronic warfare to jam enemy communications locate and target troops with artillery, turn Ukrainian tech against their own operators, and sent out false GPS and even used psychological warfare by sending texts to individual Ukrainian soldiers

Even in the midst of Covid, our adversaries have continued using social media tools to spread malicious misinformation and muddy the narrative.

If we’re to attain information advantage we must work out how we can be as nimble as our rivals.

Acting at pace in an era when disruptive capability is advancing exponentially through the aggressive application of machine learning, artificial intelligence and quantum computing.

That’s why we’ve just signed a £65m contract for the production of our first ground-breaking Protector aircraft.

It’s a major gear shift, replacing Reaper with Protector, a remotely piloted aircraft with an incredible endurance which will give us global reach. It is due to be in service by 2024

As we look towards tomorrow we must also understand the new parameters we’re operating in.

What is the philosophy of this new battle-space?

The doctrine of these new domains is embryonic and evolving rapidly. So what are the new rules?

What sort of kit will we need? What sort of people do we require? What should our aspirations be?

Our opponents are constantly seeking to go higher, faster and further

We know they’ve got thermobaric weapons.

We know they are developing hypersonic glide vehicles.

We know UAVs and deep strike pose us a lethal threat, however, dispersed your forces are.

We know increasing numbers of actors have the ability to hit us with precision and at range.

And we know, all the while, that Russia and China are developing offensive weapons in space, a major cause for concern given that satellites don’t just provide our global communications, critical intelligence, and surveillance and navigation

But underpin our critical national infrastructure, from mobile phones to cashpoint to the stock market

That’s why, in the future, what’s above you will be often more important than what’s in front of you.

So hiding and finding will be at the centre of tomorrow’s battlefield.

If you can be found, you can be killed."

(...)


The whole conversation is in the link.--> https://www.gov.uk/government/speec...ch-at-the-air-and-space-power-conference-2020

@PanzerKiel
@jaibi

Interesting speech, resonates with @PanzerKiel's post on Non-Contact Warfare. I quote:

In the military domain, the tools of Non- Contact Warfare would address C4ISR systems, information systems, precision weapons, long range weapon delivery platforms, underwater platforms, navigation and tracking systems, robots and the defence industrial base amongst others, hence protection of own and disabling/ destruction of the adversary is a requirement of Non-Contact Warfare.

There was no our layered defence in Libya but Bayraktar TB-2 UCAVs changed the game in Libya
Egypt is dreaming about SIRTE with land invasion and M1A1 Tanks will be target for Bayraktar TB-2 UCAVs

SIRTE is 1.000 km away from Egypt and Egyptian S300VM AD Systems are far away from SIRTE
and if MIG-29s attack TB-2 UCAVs in Libya , then TURAF will be in Libya to hunt MIG-29s

so Turkish UCAVs are game changer

I hope you will agree with the hypothetical situation that every capable adversary will be looking for counter-measures. Expensive fast jets will no longer make rare and expensive sorties in future, to tackle UAVs; instead, as the torpedo boat bred the torpedo-boat destroyer, that from a size slightly larger than a torpedo-boat has swollen to the Chinese light-cruiser cloned giants of more than 10,000 MT displacement, we will see UAV-destroyers. These will inevitably become the new capital ships of the air, and tear holes in the inventories of nations unequipped with them.
 
.
This is all true, but it is visible that the arrival of Mig jets in Libya significantly decreased the use of TB2s. Or am I wrong?
Yes jets effective against uavs but how many hours will they fly?
If 2 migs fly for mission for every 3 hours, they need 16 jets each day to fly.
What is cost of jet operations and maintenance ?
We know russians jet engines need maintenance in shorter time than western engines.
Uavs can fly many hours and may wait until jets turn back to airports and can attack them when they landed.
The main problem is uav's low speed. If their speed increase they have ability to hit many targets deep inside.
And last question how will they hunt a uav if its in protection umbrella of a long range sam? May be they use BVR missile but it is as costly as flying Tb2 uav.
 
Last edited:
.
It's where the future of warfare is headed, sir.
@PanzerKiel
@jaibi

Interesting speech, resonates with @PanzerKiel's post on Non-Contact Warfare. I quote:

In the military domain, the tools of Non- Contact Warfare would address C4ISR systems, information systems, precision weapons, long range weapon delivery platforms, underwater platforms, navigation and tracking systems, robots and the defence industrial base amongst others, hence protection of own and disabling/ destruction of the adversary is a requirement of Non-Contact Warfare.



I hope you will agree with the hypothetical situation that every capable adversary will be looking for counter-measures. Expensive fast jets will no longer make rare and expensive sorties in future, to tackle UAVs; instead, as the torpedo boat bred the torpedo-boat destroyer, that from a size slightly larger than a torpedo-boat has swollen to the Chinese light-cruiser cloned giants of more than 10,000 MT displacement, we will see UAV-destroyers. These will inevitably become the new capital ships of the air, and tear holes in the inventories of nations unequipped with them.
 
.
It's where the future of warfare is headed, sir.

What worries me, as an Indian, is that this is unlikely to receive the appropriate attention at the appropriate places. We are, at the moment, cursed with a singularly stupid political order ruling the country; I don't have to tell any external observer that, this fact jumps out of the page to anyone who looks at the decisions being taken.

This has also led to another Nehru-Krishna Menon - P. N. Thapar - Bijji Kaul situation. Modi is an ***, his murderous accomplice is not good for anything more than bribing and corrupting opposition legislators (in Rajasthan, the going rate for Congress legislators was Rs. 15.0 crores Indian), and our present Raksha Mantri is as thick as a brick.

Ironically, this is good for Pakistan.

If we were to link the situation within India to PanzerKiel's note on NON-CONTACT WARFARE, the BJP has a smooth, well-oiled machine that totally dominates the political discourse on social media. It really resembles nothing more than a piece of highly-engineered machinery. If there were, either in the political set-up or within the military, any one or any group with enough vision, then extrapolating these methods into the domain of international relations would wreak havoc with anyone other than the Chinese NON-CONTACT machine.

There are two other strands of information, of evidence, to be considered. First, there are around 5,000,000 (Five million) individuals in computer services, in software development and in inward and outward call centres. Second, there are another 2 to 300,000 individuals emerging from technical training every year, and they are to be added to the labour pool.

In simple terms, it means that an independent team with multi-disciplinary skills can be formed at very short notice. There is in real terms no bar to growth.

The day someone reads an article like this one, and uses his clout to initiate this kind of warfare in reality, rather than ideating on technical fora, our neighbours are collectively in trouble. The only retarding force will then be lack of military and political direction. Another retarding force is the Indian abysmal production rate; we might design brilliant systems, our execution is a shambles.
 
.
Referring to Turkey’s recent use of locally-made unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV) in Syria and Libya, along with electronic warfare systems, British Secretary of Defence Ben Wallace said: “Even if half the claims are true, the implications are game-changing”, Daily Sabah reports.

Ben Wallace on July 15 was giving a speech at the Air and Space Power Conference, during which he highlighted the future of defense technologies, air and space power being the forefront, in an age of ever-changing and rapidly improving technologies in a constant competitive environment. The Defense Secretary stressed the urgency and importance of working with regards to the air and space environment of the future, how it might be even in 2050, highlighting the evaluating of the use of such technologies by other exemplary countries, Daily Sabah reports.

“We need to look at the lessons of others. Look at how Turkey has been operating in Libya where it has used UAVs since mid-2019,” Wallace said, noting that those UAVs “have conducted intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance and targeting operations against frontlines, supply lines and logistics bases. In July last year, they struck the Libyan National Army controlled Jufrah airfield, destroying several command and control nodes as well as two transport aircraft,” he exemplified.

Turkey has shown significant gains in using UAV capacities in the field, especially with the circulating footage from Syria and Libya in which Bashar Assad regime tanks, Russian-made air defense systems and Libyan marshall Khalifa Haftar’s military equipment were destroyed by Turkish drone-led operations. “Or consider Turkey’s involvement in Syria and its use of electronic warfare, lightly armed drones and smart ammunition to stop tanks, armored cars and air defense systems in their tracks,” Wallace further said.

Most recently in February 2020, prompted by an Assad regime attack that killed 34 Turkish soldiers and injured dozens of others in Syria, just across from Turkey's southern border, domestic drones, namely the Baykar Makina’s Bayraktar TB2 and Turkish Aerospace Industries Inc.'s (TAI) Anka-S, ended up causing significant damage to Assad regime elements, hitting everything from tanks and air defense systems to howitzers as well as military bases and chemical warfare depots, Daily Sabah recalls. According to reports, the Assad regime suffered heavy losses “3,000 soldiers, 151 tanks, eight helicopters, three drones, three fighter jets vehicles and trucks, eight aerial defense systems and one headquarters among other military equipment and facilities,” Ben Wallace also stressed.

https://www.armyrecognition.com/ana...7pe89Kq0YiLe6phIKbfJarq7lncMpOY78WUu-JJq4fN58
 
. . . .

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom