Uighur terrorism is going global

[Luftwaffe]

@Luftwaffe
Read about dungal revolt by hui muslims 1860s against racism at the hands of han chinese. Do you know how many muslims were killed by Qing, by your cute chinese friends? More than a million, with massive displacement toward central asia. The hands of these small cute people are stained with blood of muslims, they are carrying on the same racist policies against uyghur and tibitean minorities.

@Luftwaffe shaken up your zameer. Your racist ching friend is wishing for red indian treatment to uyghur muslims.

My opinion and point was cleaning up terrorists, it does not mean i would be always in sync or agree to other's opinion than again lets point out when you said US should interfere in China that would again be war many would die No? Look at what west has done to iraq, afghanistan, libya.

So why are you reminding me history don't you remember you favourite west and series of Crusades the blood was up to the knees according to the history. Remember more than 100,000 dead in iraq war and 1 million children died directly due to oil for food illegal program including other sanctions that death is on the hands of west. So please I suggest don't give us selective History.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

My opinion and point was cleaning up terrorists, it does not mean i would be always in sync or agree to other's opinion than again lets point out when you said US should interfere in China that would again be war many would die No? Look at what west has done to iraq, afghanistan, libya.

So why are you reminding me history don't you remember you favourite west and series of Crusades the blood was up to the kness according to the history. Remember more than 100,000 dead in iraq war and 1 million children died directly due to oil for food illegal program including other sanctions that death is on the hands of west. So please I suggest don't give us selective History.

I have already clarified to you that i have no affection for west, i despise them for what they did to iraq and Afghanistan. But we muslims did recieve help from America against far worst soviets, is'nt?. These kafir superpowers are no friends of ours but if gora kafir goes against ching chong kafir, benefiting muslims in the process, then we should cheer for it. We are weak, our horses are not prepared, islam tell us to be wise.

By the way why you are acting as if you hate west?. Your army is slave and servant of America, dont talk ill of your masters.

 

[Raphael]

We are not a "kafir superpower" yet, just a "kafir" .

 

[mike2000]

China should give back the independence for Uighurs (and Tibetans) otherwise I think they continue to fight for their country independence. Dont blame the West.

China shouldn't blame the west as you clearly said my friend. it seems anything wrong that happens in China, they want to blame the west. As a country, you have to solve your own issues and stop looking for excuses abroad. Even if our governments was supporting/financing these groups, then your authorities should be held responsible for not been able to guarantee the public security/safety. After all in geo politics between big powers dirty tricks can/maybe used justifiably. That's how it is and will be in future. Every country is seeking to protect their interests and if a weakened/unstable china is in our interests then our governments wont hesitate to support it. Not that i'm supporting such acts, but i'm simply stating facts in Geopolitics.
But in this case/situation, i don't think any western government is involve. if they did, i think these groups would have been using weapons to inflict maximum casualties(like the case you see in some regions in India, south Philippines Northern Nigeria, Pakistan, Myanmar etc were rebel groups/separatists operate) instead of knives. These Uighur terrorist groups might have some support/base in Afghanistan(which even the U.S acknowledged), Pakistan, and central Asian countries like Uzbekistan which i read 8 of them were killed while trying to cross the border recently), but not from the West.

I don't condone any terrorist groups, be it some uighurs/taliban, Boko Aram, Al nusra front, Islamist rebels in Philippines Al Qaeda etc since they don't care about human life be it Chinese Europeans or even Arabs. They will kill anybody who goes against their believes, and even innocents as we saw in the recent railway stabbings in China and Tienanmen bombings where a Filipinos was killed. But some Uyghur do have legitimate demands for more freedom of religion,expression , Just like some Chinese people do. The Chinese government should try and recognize allow criticism and even condemnation like they do online , but they need to also allow it practically(public protests against them etc). They still have a largely favorable view by the people, so they should try and be more accommodating. Else some lonely person, group will use these opportunity to vent their anger which will be used by some western media outlet for propaganda purposes. In this regard i will advice my Vietnamese, Pakistanis, Indian brothers on here to stop trying to justify these terrorist groups, because they don't care about anything else other killing/harming others(and will kill even you supporting them if you come across their path/don't share their beliefs). They are not the only ones to have issues/differences with the government. if everybody acts like them then even we in the U.K will be at war/killing each other just like Syria now. Even the terrorist act committed in the U.S and U.K can be has been justified by these terrorist groups saying its because of our invasions in the Iraq/Afghanistan etc, which i think is an excuse they use to carry out their heinous acts. TERRORISM CAN NEVER BE JUSTIFIED.
But overall, most of our media are now justifiably calling these group terrorists as you can see in the guardian article. Terrorism knows no bonds, and every country in the world is prone to it, Be it U.S, U.K, France, China, Russia, Africa, etc. These groups/people have no regards towards human life and will kill anybody for their silly cause. I wish our governments will all come together to eradicate these scums from planet earth, so they can go **** their 10 virgins....pathetic.

 

[Hakan]

1. They don't have a right to shatter Russia's territorial integrity. It's not like they were their own Soviet Republic before.
2. Their terrorism was barbaric, disproportionate, and unjustifiable.

Russia invaded the area back in the 1700's so infact the territorial integrity of the states that existed in the northern Caucasus were shattered by russia.

Also i condemn teorrorism.

 

[kalu_miah]

I have already clarified to you that i have no affection for west, i despise them for what they did to iraq and Afghanistan. But we muslims did recieve help from America against far worst soviets, is'nt?. These kafir superpowers are no friends of ours but if gora kafir goes against ching chong kafir, benefiting muslims in the process, then we should cheer for it. We are weak, our horses are not prepared, islam tell us to be wise.

By the way why you are acting as if you hate west?. Your army is slave and servant of America, dont talk ill of your masters.

Lets looks at major military powers in the globe

US, China and Russia

Out of the above 3 which one has the greatest possibility of being an ally of Muslims?

As a fragmented, diverse and geographically dispersed population, Muslims need alliance with at least one power, to get out of their weakness, don't you think? Who will supply us with advanced military tech if we are not allied with at least one of the 3 major powers?

I am well aware of Chinese history with Muslims, but this was a long time ago and have no significance at present time. Even if you consider history, the West, Russia, India, these countries had much more serious conflicts with Muslims throughout history.

Currently the only issue China has is with Uighur ethnicity it seems, mainly because Uighurs probably feel that they do not have a home of their own, unlike Kazakh, Kyrgyz or Tajik, all of whom have a state of their own. But Uighurs are not the only ethnic group without a home state, Hui is more numerous than Uighurs I believe. The Qing experience you mentioned were mainly about these Hui Muslim rebellions, trying to make their own states, which were brutally crushed. But look at the Hui's today, they are the most integrated and loyal Chinese Muslim citizens.

I have been to Xinjiang and traveled there extensively. I know how Uighurs live there. Things may have been not so good in the past, but they are not being treated like the Rohingya in Myanmar for example. Everyone I talked to is hopeful about the future. China is a growing economy and emerging super power and they know they will have much more opportunity staying with this great country. Trade with former Soviet Central Asia and Russia has already opened a lot of opportunities among Uighurs in Urumqi and other towns. Only fools think of separating from China, which is not possible anyways, as China will not let it happen.

So the best advice we can give Uighurs is to build bridges with Han Chinese, for their own sake and for the sake of wider Muslim world, who need China more than they need us. It is also their duty to inform the authorities of any terrorist backers among the Uighur diaspora living in the West and Turkey. My suspicion is on Turkey, as it will not be hard to find some idiot Uighur living in Turkey to supervise a terror campaign, making him think that he is trying to liberate his people. In the West someone like that will easily get caught through surveillance. This would be a really cheap way to spread fear among Han Chinese, make them suspicious of Uighurs, ruin Han-Uighur relations and thus break down social harmony and destabilize Chinese society. As China becomes powerful, this would be one way for China's enemies and competitors to bring down China one notch, just like Osama Bin Laden sought to bleed the US.

 

[Raphael]

Russia invaded the area back in the 1700's so infact the territorial integrity of the states that existed in the northern Caucasus were shattered by russia.

Also i condemn teorrorism.

Territorial integrity only became a 'sacred principle' after WWII. Before that, as I'm sure you know, stronger nations annexed weaker nations left and right. So what Russia did in the 1700's, as every other imperial power, can't really be invoked.

atatwolf is this section's mod Chinese ?

atatwolf ran away from replying to me when he's normally so pugnacious. So what do you think?

@kalu_miah
pak-one is kind of a nutjob. He wants the durand line disbanded so "pashtunstan" can be restored. He has no concept of geopolitics or the nation-state. And he thinks of his own army as "slave and servant of America". I don't think he's ever advocated anything in Pakistan's interest.

Also, in truth, I am not opposed to granting Uighurs a state. There's little point in ruling a people so resistant and recalcitrant. But the problem is that it threatens the rest of China's territorial integrity, China's runaway economic growth, and our current rivalry with the USA. Our superpower status and America's collapse are two absolute prerequisites that must be guaranteed before we consider the issue of granting territorial cessions.

 

[xunzi]

We are at peace with Muslim states. Just look at business and even military exchange we did with Muslim states, Pakistan, Iran, and Saudi. We even sell drone to Saudi Arabia now. Muslim is not an issue we have with. It's the extremist, a true enemy of Muslim and us. In order to liberate Muslim, you need to get rid of extremist whom misinterpret god wrongfully.

 

[-SINAN-]

atatwolf ran away from replying to me when he's normally so pugnacious. So what do you think?

Atatwolf run away.. Never seen that. He must be busy. If your discussion not ended yet, he will surely return.

It sucks to be a non-Turk when he is around.

We are at peace with Muslim states. Just look at business and even military exchange we did with Muslim states, Pakistan, Iran, and Saudi. We even sell drone to Saudi Arabia now. Muslim is not an issue we have with. It's the extremist, a true enemy of Muslim and us. In order to liberate Muslim, you need to get rid of extremist whom misinterpret god wrongfully.

Then change topic to extremist terrorism. Why say Uighur terrorism and accuse a whole nation. This is the point where we can't get in to term with Chinese.

 

[DRaisinHerald]

We are at peace with Muslim states. Just look at business and even military exchange we did with Muslim states, Pakistan, Iran, and Saudi. We even sell drone to Saudi Arabia now. Muslim is not an issue we have with. It's the extremist, a true enemy of Muslim and us. In order to liberate Muslim, you need to get rid of extremist whom misinterpret god wrongfully.

The last part was unnecessary. You being Chinese wouldn't really understand about 'right' or 'wrong' interpretation. This extremism problem is bigger than that.
The Chinese problem, as you mentioned, is an ethnic one, not a religious.

 

[Raphael]

Then change topic to extremist terrorism. Why say Uighur terrorism and accuse a whole nation. This is the point where we can't get in to term with Chinese.

It's the only thing the Guardian article referred to. Currently, there's no such thing as Manchu terrorism or Zhuang terrorism or Miao terrorism. There's only one culprit so far. So why be vague?

 

[-SINAN-]

It's the only thing the Guardian article referred to. Currently, there's no such thing as Manchu terrorism or Zhuang terrorism or Miao terrorism. There's only one culprit so far. So why be vague?

First don't show me Western source. Their agenda is crystal clear. If Iraqis resist against US invasion they are getting labelled as "Insurgents".

If PKK terrorists kills women and children in my country same Western media labels them as "Freedom fighters".... so please, don't.

Secondly, if you can't seperate extremists from ordinary Uighur..... this is no solution to anything.

 

[kalu_miah]

Territorial integrity only became a 'sacred principle' after WWII. Before that, as I'm sure you know, stronger nations annexed weaker nations left and right. So what Russia did in the 1700's, as every other imperial power, can't really be invoked.



atatwolf ran away from replying to me when he's normally so pugnacious. So what do you think?

@kalu_miah
pak-one is kind of a nutjob. He wants the durand line disbanded so "pashtunstan" can be restored. He has no concept of geopolitics or the nation-state. And he thinks of his own army as "slave and servant of America". I don't think he's ever advocated anything in Pakistan's interest.

Also, in truth, I am not opposed to granting Uighurs a state. There's little point in ruling a people so resistant and recalcitrant. But the problem is that it threatens the rest of China's territorial integrity, China's runaway economic growth, and our current rivalry with the USA. Our superpower status and America's collapse are two absolute prerequisites that must be guaranteed before we consider the issue of granting territorial cessions.

Yes, I have seen some of his posts, but I wanted to counter his cheap appeal to Muslim solidarity and Muslim interest with some food for thought.

As for Uighur state, I am totally against it, specially in this neighborhood. I believe small states (Afghanistan is a perfect example) are vulnerable to proxy super power rivalry. In my opinion small powerless states must always live under the umbrella of a powerful neighbor or near neighbor to ensure security, peace and stability. And if the Uighurs are already a part of China, then it is a matter of great luck for them, as their future is secure, all they have to do is work hard within the system. I believe you will see in 10-20 years Mongolians become softer towards China and even consider reintegration with China, when they see so many Inner Mongolians becoming more rich, educated and having better lives than them.

Like I said in our earlier post, Muslims with independent and critical thinking are pinning their hopes on China. If we can look after China's interest as our own, only then China will look after our interest as well. In my opinion, military alliances are key to a more just global order. If the US sees fit to pick and choose nations and build alliances, then it should be ok for other nations to do that as well for their mutual interest. Without security, peace and stability, no development can take place, I know from the experience of my own country of origin.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Lets looks at major military powers in the globe

US, China and Russia

Out of the above 3 which one has the greatest possibility of being an ally of Muslims?

As a fragmented, diverse and geographically dispersed population, Muslims need alliance with at least one power, to get out of their weakness, don't you think? Who will supply us with advanced military tech if we are not allied with at least one of the 3 major powers?

I am well aware of Chinese history with Muslims, but this was a long time ago and have no significance at present time. Even if you consider history, the West, Russia, India, these countries had much more serious conflicts with Muslims throughout history.

Currently the only issue China has is with Uighur ethnicity it seems, mainly because Uighurs probably feel that they do not have a home of their own, unlike Kazakh, Kyrgyz or Tajik, all of whom have a state of their own. But Uighurs are not the only ethnic group without a home state, Hui is more numerous than Uighurs I believe. The Qing experience you mentioned were mainly about these Hui Muslim rebellions, trying to make their own states, which were brutally crushed. But look at the Hui's today, they are the most integrated and loyal Chinese Muslim citizens.

I have been to Xinjiang and traveled there extensively. I know how Uighurs live there. Things may have been not so good in the past, but they are not being treated like the Rohingya in Myanmar for example. Everyone I talked to is hopeful about the future. China is a growing economy and emerging super power and they know they will have much more opportunity staying with this great country. Trade with former Soviet Central Asia and Russia has already opened a lot of opportunities among Uighurs in Urumqi and other towns. Only fools think of separating from China, which is not possible anyways, as China will not let it happen.

So the best advice we can give Uighurs is to build bridges with Han Chinese, for their own sake and for the sake of wider Muslim world, who need China more than they need us. It is also their duty to inform the authorities of any terrorist backers among the Uighur diaspora living in the West and Turkey. My suspicion is on Turkey, as it will not be hard to find some idiot Uighur living in Turkey to supervise a terror campaign, making him think that he is trying to liberate his people. In the West someone like that will easily get caught through surveillance. This would be a really cheap way to spread fear among Han Chinese, make them suspicious of Uighurs, ruin Han-Uighur relations and thus break down social harmony and destabilize Chinese society. As China becomes powerful, this would be one way for China's enemies and competitors to bring down China one notch, just like Osama Bin Laden sought to bleed the US.

Look man, there should be criticism on china from the muslims all around the world, so that there is some pressure on them , so that they dont cross lines when dealing with uighurs.....muslims are not exactly united on any platform like european union so i dont think they are in position to become "an" ally of any super power or emerging one.
Both china and russia have large muslim populations and both countries are oppressing them ever since they occupied those territories. Same is not case with America but America itself is dajjal. The best scenario would be, to welcome help from either of these three when its in the interest of muslims. Though i doubt that China would militarily intervene in any issue. Regarding uyghur issue, the help is not coming from west, they are not interested in uyghurs. china is too powerful and Uyghurs are too weak. The best scenario would be economic collapse of china, any western role in that should be welcomed.
What we muslims should do? criticize china on uyghur issue as much as we can.

 

[kalu_miah]

Look man, there should be criticism on china from the muslims all around the world, so that there is some pressure on them , so that they dont cross lines when dealing with uighurs.....muslims are not exactly united on any platform like european union so i dont think they are in position to become "an" ally of any super power or emerging one.
Both china and russia have large muslim populations and both countries are oppressing them ever since they occupied those territories. Same is not case with America but America itself is dajjal. The best scenario would be, to welcome help from either of these three when its in the interest of muslims. Though i doubt that China would militarily intervene in any issue. Regarding uyghur issue, the help is not coming from west, they are not interested in uyghurs. china is too powerful and Uyghurs are too weak. The best scenario would be economic collapse of china, any western role in that should be welcomed.
What we muslims should do? criticize china on uyghur issue as much as we can.

I never said there is Muslim Union like European Union, but China has friendly relations with most individual Muslim majority countries of the world and many of them would like to upgrade that to a formal alliance in the future, if there is an opportunity like that.

Russia occupied many Muslim areas during imperial times and many of them became independent after fall of Soviet Union. Now many of these stans are nostalgic about Soviet Union, because they have no jobs, no pension and have no way to make a living in these small fragmented countries. So they go to Russia to work and send money home. Many Kyrgyz, Uzbek and Tajik survive like this. Kazakhstan lucked out because they have oil and gas.

As for China, Xinjiang was a protectorate under Han and a full part of Imperial China under Tang, Yuan and Qing. So Han Chinese are no strangers in this area.

Now lets come to the main issue, in the near future there is going to be a new cold war between USA and China to decide who becomes number one, as China becomes more powerful economically and militarily. If you consider USA the "dajjal", then shouldn't Muslims put their weight behind China to make it number one and thus defeat the "dajjal"?

Economic collapse of China will never happen, because unlike Soviet Union who was isolated from greater world economy, China is fully integrated with global economy and is becoming powerful precisely because of China's trade with global economy. There will be ups and down like it happens in every country, but not a total collapse, just like it happens in the US.

I am all for constructive criticism of China by Muslims on Uighur issue. I think a strong affirmative action program for Uighurs to hire a few million of them in govt. and private jobs in Xinjiang and other parts of China will go a long way to solve whatever economic grievances they have or feel and it will cost the govt. may be a few billion dollars at most. Also, out of these few millions, a good portion should be recruited as informers and spies in order to catch subversive elements. Another interesting idea would be to hire Chinese speaking Uighurs to be sent to Muslim countries around the globe to enhance business and trade relationship between these Muslim countries and China. So in this way Uighurs could be used to build stronger bridges between China and Muslim world.

These kind of constructive ideas are what Muslims should support, not a pipe dream and wishful thinking like the collapse of China, which will then make the "dajjal USA" another undefeated super power for the next 100 years.