U.S. waived laws to keep F-35 on track with China-made parts

[AirRodgers]

No, the aspect of F-22 is and ALWAYS will be CAP (Combat Air Patrol) in ground level, we need planes that can drop bombs where required and when required.

First let's talk about why Prolonging the production of F-22 is not right. F-22 is an Air dominance fighter, they are to take care of enemy air threat, yet you don't go drop bombs with F-22. You may think, yeah well, we got F-16 and A-10 for that role.

F-16 is a legacy fighter, not sure how many years they can stay on without costing us too much to maintain them. Prospect is, even F-16 was bar from entering an AO if there are preceived AA/SAM threat, so even if we are talking about insurgent, if there are SAM Alert, then bye bye fast air.

A-10 is a close air support platform that match the ground support with fire power. HOWEVER, there are one major draw back with A-10 - It's speed. Well, they pack a punch, they are durable, they can hold in your sector for longer time, they are slow so they can strafe again and again with enemy position. But what good it does when you need them now and the AFO tell you they are 20 mike away??

Personally called several A-10 Strike on target myself, the waiting is the hardest part. It flew twice as slow as -15 and -16. If they were on the edge of your AO, it will take them 10 mike + more to come in and save you. If you are lucky enough to have one above your head, yeah, then this will be a good thing, but if you don't, then good luck holding the line before the strike came thru.

The Military need aircraft like F-35. Beside, F-35 are not any worse than F-16 (Maybe a bit far off than F-15E, but how many 15E we have in the AF??) When you compare the Stats between F-35 and F-16

Key Figure

Maximum speed (At ALT) - 2 Mach (F-16) 1.6 Mach (F-35)
Combat Radius - 340 nmi (F-16) 540 nmi (F-35)
Wing Loading - 88.3 lb/ft²(F-16) 107.7 lb/ft² (F-35)
Thrust/weight - 1.07 (F-16), 0.87 F-35

And how do you know how F-35 Turn and Climb, they are classified information, do you have access to those??

You know what, my brother was an Engine Engineer with Boeing, but after seeing F-35A demo he too wowed at it. So. I don't know where you get the F-35 is a big mistake from.

The F35 is a big mistake according to Pierre Sprey

As for the combat radius between f16 and F35.. You add a drop tank to an F16 and the range will be different..
As for the F35 putting anything on the wing would defeat its stealth feature so no drop tank or external weapon load.

 

[AirRodgers]

LOL. Thats especially funny when J-31 is almost exact copy of F-35.

The J31 with proper engines will be better than the F35 given its design wasn't limited to the jack of all trade mission. The J31 two engine will give it better t/w and without design constraint for a big lift fan in the middle of the fuselage will make it slimmer(less drag). If the J31 is a copy of the F35 than its is better than the original...

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Todays war has evolved it does not require drop tanks or additional cft. Air to air refuelling solves this problem, furthermore the awacs also pin point the intruding aircrafts position so the closest and minimum time is taken for an offensive. Long range bombing is going to be done by drones so that the cost of losing a pilot is nil not to mention search and rescue is also out when there is no human life to be saved. The F35 or any other aircraft that is to be flown would be relying to remain in the border areas of the defending state.

 

[AirRodgers]

Todays war has evolved it does not require drop tanks or additional cft. Air to air refuelling solves this problem, furthermore the awacs also pin point the intruding aircrafts position so the closest and minimum time is taken for an offensive. Long range bombing is going to be done by drones so that the cost of losing a pilot is nil not to mention search and rescue is also out when there is no human life to be saved. The F35 or any other aircraft that is to be flown would be relying to remain in the border areas of the defending state.

Today war will still need plane that can loiter above combat zone for ground support, this loiter ability is greatly enhance by drop tanks... Air refueling and drop tank are option that you have to prolong flight time over combat zone...

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

This whole argument is almost moot as autonomous pilotless planes are right around the corner.

 

[AirRodgers]

This whole argument is almost moot as autonomous pilotless planes are right around the corner.

agree drone will be the future, the f22 and the F35 might be the last of a dying breed... I just hope the F35 would died now and save us billions of tax payer money...

 

[500]

The J31 with proper engines will be better than the F35 given its design wasn't limited to the jack of all trade mission. The J31 two engine will give it better t/w and without design constraint for a big lift fan in the middle of the fuselage will make it slimmer(less drag). If the J31 is a copy of the F35 than its is better than the original...

Woulda coulda shoulda does not count. Here what we see in reality:

They are virtually same. J-11 is marginally bigger so it will be heavier. F-35 thrust is 19,522 kg. 2 RD-33 engines have thrust 16,600 kg. Big advantage in thrust/weight for F-35. In addition 1 engine configuration has less bottom drag and much better roll rate (very important in dogfight).

 

[AirRodgers]

Woulda coulda shoulda does not count. Here what we see in reality:

They are virtually same. J-11 is marginally bigger so it will be heavier. F-35 thrust is 19,522 kg. 2 RD-33 engines have thrust 16,600 kg. Big advantage in thrust/weight for F-35. In addition 1 engine configuration has less bottom drag and much better roll rate (very important in dogfight).

As off now the Chinese engine or Russian one are not at the level of the F35 engine... Once the J31 get proper engine it would have better t/w than the F35... Even in those picture you can see the lumpy/fatness of the F35 just look right behind the cock pit of the F35 compare to the J31..The J31 from the cock pit back, it slope down while the F35 you can see the lump for the lift fan. Even though the one picture don't have a lift fan its still share the same airframe as the marine version so the lift fan lump is still there...

why is there 6 hard point on a wing of a stealth jet.

 

[500]

As off now the Chinese engine or Russian one are not at the level of the F35 engine... Once the J31 get proper engine it would have better t/w than the F35... Even in those picture you can see the lumpy/fatness of the F35 just look right behind the cock pit of the F35 compare to the J31..The J31 from the cock pit back, it slope down while the F35 you can see the lump for the lift fan. Even though the one picture don't have a lift fan its still share the same airframe as the marine version so the lift fan lump is still there...

Fatness behind the cockpit is needed for more fuel. Compare early MiG-29 models to late and u will see that late MiG-29 also have such fatness.

why is there 6 hard point on a wing of a stealth jet.

In some missions stealth is not needed.

 

[AirRodgers]

Fatness behind the cockpit is needed for more fuel. Compare early MiG-29 models to late and u will see that late MiG-29 also have such fatness.

In some missions stealth is not needed.

you got a point, but still if you don't need stealth why send in an $$ stealth plane.
The lump on the mig was an intended design, while the lump behind the F35 was a compromise that come from a jack of all trade design concept....

 

[Esc8781]

The F35 is a big mistake according to Pierre Sprey

Please, research.

The Heritage Foundation Then and Now » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

He (Boyd) despised both the F-22’s design and its acquisition program; it violated every idea he fought for in fighter design and every principle he formulated to help American forces prevail on the battlefield. In the late 1980s and early 1990s, before he died, Boyd often expressed his utter contempt for the F-22 to each one of us, always in terms too colorful to print.

The F-35, J-20, J-31, T-50 has design elements from the F-22. So does this means every one of these jets are flawed?

Funny that the F-16 became everything that Sprey was against.

 

[AirRodgers]

Please, research.

The Heritage Foundation Then and Now » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

He (Boyd) despised both the F-22’s design and its acquisition program; it violated every idea he fought for in fighter design and every principle he formulated to help American forces prevail on the battlefield. In the late 1980s and early 1990s, before he died, Boyd often expressed his utter contempt for the F-22 to each one of us, always in terms too colorful to print.

The F-35, J-20, J-31, T-50 has design elements from the F-22. So does this means every one of these jets are flawed?

Funny that the F-16 became everything that Sprey was against.

The Heritage Foundation
sorry I don't waste my time reading a neocon source.

 

[Esc8781]

The Heritage Foundation
sorry I don't waste my time reading a neocon source.

Answer the damn question.

 

[500]

you got a point, but still if you don't need stealth why send in an $$ stealth plane.

I said in SOME missions stealth is not needed. I'll tell u more: in many missions today F-15 and F-16 are overkills. So why we are sending them?

The lump on the mig was an intended design

No, it was added much later, when realized that fuel is not enough.

, while the lump behind the F35 was a compromise that come from a jack of all trade design concept....

Lump on the F-35A holds fuel. It has 2000 kg more fuel than F-35B. You could remove that lump together with fuel, but why?

Everyone adds lumps nowdays:

 

[Juice]

In the end....all US jets have teething issues (this is gonna happen when it's not a copy, or built to a time-tested standard). But in the end...we seem to get fairly capable aircraft fielded.