U.S. to intensify drone strikes in Pakistan

[VCheng]

......... I am happy our Army and nation are one and the same

That is a pity indeed.

 

[lem34]

That is a pity indeed.

Not really our soldiers and ISI put their lives down for Pakistan.

Most of us value our defenders. Long live PA and ISI and god bless its martyrs.

Back to thread I doubt Americans will be successful in their nefarious designs with drones or whatnot

 

[VCheng]

.................

Back to thread I doubt Americans will be successful in their nefarious designs with drones or whatnot

Drones are only one part of an overall strategy, and their use continues to be effective, at least for now. With or without drones, the sanctuaries will be eliminated to the point where they cannot be used against USA any longer. That design seems pretty fair to me.

 

[pakdefender]

I think those Saudi funded institutions are doing the job quite well.

If you allege that the Saudi funded institutions are the problem then stop filling the pockets of the Saudis with cash i.e. stop buying oil from them. Doing drone strikes on some mud dwelling in FATA to kill some Ak-47 wielding bearded men is not going to stop the Saudis from funding these institutions.

America , Oil and Terrorism are all linked , that’s what it all comes down to.

 

[Mercenary]

Well you are keeping a count by sitting in Canada.

Good for you.

Yeap, these drone strikes have saved thousands of Pakistani Lives by taking out terrorists who would otherwise be planning attacks.

 

[Rod of God]

...the Saudi funded institutions are the problem then stop filling the pockets of the Saudis with cash i.e. stop buying oil from them...

We're trying. We have PLENTY of oil and gas but the socialist, America-hating President Obama is doing his best to thwart that plan. Hopefully come November he will be 'put out to pasture'.

 

[Wright]

They are doing well in UK and Europe as well mate.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...-police-injure-29-officers-3.html#post2907268

They have a well funded and competent police force, and identification procedures. It is 50 times easier to make a bomb in Pakistan than it is in Europe. Their police actually uses forensics.

They can deal with the problem and respond to threats. You have not been able to.

If you allege that the Saudi funded institutions are the problem then stop filling the pockets of the Saudis with cash i.e. stop buying oil from them. Doing drone strikes on some mud dwelling in FATA to kill some Ak-47 wielding bearded men is not going to stop the Saudis from funding these institutions.

America , Oil and Terrorism are all linked , that’s what it all comes down to.

Ever heard of Russia? Canada? Yeah the USA has been doing just that. Iran's oil is under sanction now.

 

[Rig Vedic]

The drone strikes haven't stopped because Pakistan is co-op the drone strikes at the highest level. Don't you get it?

You can keep up a pretense for only so long.

Why not be open about Pakistan's support for the drones?

Can you fool all your people all the time?

 

[LeGenD]

There is an American vision and as you rightly put it a Putin vision for our neighbourhood. The problem with American idea is that only India is mildly supportive. The Putin vision is supported by Iran Russia China and Pakistan

Brother, this game is far more dangerous than it seems.

Now let me give you a glimpse of US plans;

1. Military action against Iran with help from GCC and Israel, if necessary
2. Delicate position of Pakistan
3. Encirclement of China through India, Vietnam, Philippines, South Korea, and Japan.
4. Taiwan issue
5. Rise of India and its role in Afghanistan and influence over Russia

You see? This seems like a chess game. If Putin wants to revive COLD WAR once again! God help us.

I understand the urge to keep a check on US influence. But lot more is needed to accomplish this task. Point is that as long as their are disputes in Asia, USA will get the opportunities to take advantage.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Yeap, these drone strikes have saved thousands of Pakistani Lives by taking out terrorists who would otherwise be planning attacks.

Contrary to your argument, drone strikes has lead to thousands of pakistanis getting killed. each drone strike with it brings more and more suicide bombings, that is what the US funded / supported TTP does. One drone strike on the Afghan taliban / AQ and the TTP launches a revenge attack. Strange thing is that drone kill AQ / Afghan Taliban men, but revenge is taken by TTP guys who have nothing to do in the jihad in Afghanistan, rather they wait for opportunities of drone and legitimizing their suicide bombing. Even the recent US-declassified material from Osama hideout also says that AQ was not happy with TTP and its strategy. heck even Afghan Taliban and Mullah Omar have shown displeasure and disappointment with TTP and its action, but they still get their suicide bombing in the shape of revenge for a drone strike, which the US knows well and supports such strategy, as it spreads anarchy in Pakistan.

It may have saved some US lives, but it had taken thousands of ordinary Pakistanis lives.

The military regards the "good Taleban" as a strategic resource, and hence does not want to go after them. That is the crux of the matter. Will the military continue to do what it think is right for itself, or do what is needed to protect the country?

I wonder if US/NATO with all its high tech might can't defeat 2k-3k AK-47/RPG-7 wielding mujahedins, then how do you expect the old tech Pak Army to accomplish such a huge task. That is the real crux of the matter, Pak Army doesn't wants to out itself in something which it can't win.

And as per old record, whenever we launched big operations, US forces left the border posts and provinces wide open for the Taliban to roam freely.

First ask US/NATO to bring in more soldiers, deploy them on the borders, check the infiltration, destroy the infrastructure available to the taliban inside Afghanistan and then ask us to do something. We have shown quite seriousness and have lost more men and received much more damage compared to the occupying forces in Afghanistan.

Show your seriousness first and then advice us.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Cheng,

the US/NATO is doing the same, no? If they weren't, why would they quietly be backing taleban offices in Doha, Qatar.

it's important to view things on a broader level and not be overly ''fixated''

 

[VCheng]

...................
And as per old record, whenever we launched big operations, US forces left the border posts and provinces wide open for the Taliban to roam freely.

First ask US/NATO to bring in more soldiers, deploy them on the borders, check the infiltration, destroy the infrastructure available to the taliban inside Afghanistan and then ask us to do something. We have shown quite seriousness and have lost more men and received much more damage compared to the occupying forces in Afghanistan.

Show your seriousness first and then advice us.

ISAF forces are drawing down after 2014 and will have only a limited role going forward. That is why it is important for Pakistan to be at the table, such as the upcoming meeting in Chicago, to ensure it can work with the Afghan forces directly to ensure on-going co-operation.

Cheng,

the US/NATO is doing the same, no? If they weren't, why would they quietly be backing taleban offices in Doha, Qatar.

it's important to view things on a broader level and not be overly ''fixated''

I can agree with that.

 

[Mercenary]

Contrary to your argument, drone strikes has lead to thousands of pakistanis getting killed. each drone strike with it brings more and more suicide bombings, that is what the US funded / supported TTP does. One drone strike on the Afghan taliban / AQ and the TTP launches a revenge attack. Strange thing is that drone kill AQ / Afghan Taliban men, but revenge is taken by TTP guys who have nothing to do in the jihad in Afghanistan, rather they wait for opportunities of drone and legitimizing their suicide bombing. Even the recent US-declassified material from Osama hideout also says that AQ was not happy with TTP and its strategy. heck even Afghan Taliban and Mullah Omar have shown displeasure and disappointment with TTP and its action, but they still get their suicide bombing in the shape of revenge for a drone strike, which the US knows well and supports such strategy, as it spreads anarchy in Pakistan.

It may have saved some US lives, but it had taken thousands of ordinary Pakistanis lives.

The Drone strikes have been devastatingly effective. Just look at the number of terrorist attacks in Pakistan versus when the Drone campaign picked up tempo in mid-2007. Since then as the drone strikes went up, the number of terrorist attacks in Pakistan went down.

The terrorists living in FATA are too busy avoiding drones than planning terrorist attacks and other major terrorists have been killed. So contrary to your argument that 1 drone strike will create 10 suicide bombers, I think its the other way around. 1 Drone strike has probably avoided 10 potential suicide attacks.

Just a few months ago, the terrorist who planned and executed the Ahmedi Mosque bombing which killed hundreds was taken out in a drone strike. God only knows how many more innocents he would have killed had he been alive.

The Drones are a joint CIA-ISI operation. ISI sends its agents to FATA to case potential targets and that information is relayed back to CIA which takes action against these areas. The targets have included TTP, Afghan Taliban, Haqqanis, and Al Qaeda.

As for Al Qaeda being offended by suicide bombings. It was not due to some humanitarian gesture of all the innocents these beasts killed but due to losing the public and moral support.

So by and large, the drone strikes have been very effective. They have decapitated the TTP, Al Qaeda, and taken out terrorists who would be otherwise plotting more terrorist attacks in Pakistan and planning to kill more innocent Pakistanis. Yes, Drone strikes do sometimes kill innocent people but there is no weapon system on the planet in which that cannot be avoided.

Unfortunately, innocents will die in any war in which the battlefield is civilian populated areas.

Even in World War II, when the Allies invaded Normandy on June 6, 1944, Allied Naval Bombardment to soften up Hitler's Atlantic Wall killed an estimated 4,000 French Civilians. But that doesn't mean that Allies should have not invaded Normandy or the French people would turn against the Allied Armies. The blame lies on the Germans for invading France.

And thus, even if a Drone strike kills an innocent person, I blame these foreign terrorists and these tribals for giving shelter to these foreign terrorists which brought this war here.

Its simple. The Tribals need to stop sheltering foreign terrorists, stop plotting attacks in Afghanistan and Pakistan. And we will leave them alone and they can go back to chopping each other's heads off and starting tribal wars with each other over minor issues and having a life span of 30.

 

[lem34]

Brother, this game is far more dangerous than it seems.

Now let me give you a glimpse of US plans;

1. Military action against Iran with help from GCC and Israel, if necessary
2. Delicate position of Pakistan
3. Encirclement of China through India, Vietnam, Philippines, South Korea, and Japan.
4. Taiwan issue
5. Rise of India and its role in Afghanistan and influence over Russia

You see? This seems like a chess game. If Putin wants to revive COLD WAR once again! God help us.

I understand the urge to keep a check on US influence. But lot more is needed to accomplish this task. Point is that as long as their are disputes in Asia, USA will get the opportunities to take advantage.

I agree with you completely and that is why it is inevitable that Russia China Pakistan and Iran will unite and thwart American efforts. remember if these countries wanted they could overnight leave Americans stranded in Afghanistan by simply closing routes into Afghanistan or subtly supplying insurgents.

So if you have realised this why do you often make comment against me to support allies of america eg Sauds

ISAF forces are drawing down after 2014 and will have only a limited role going forward. That is why it is important for Pakistan to be at the table, such as the upcoming meeting in Chicago, to ensure it can work with the Afghan forces directly to ensure on-going co-operation.



.

Afghan forces?? Forces that exclude Pashtuns?? How long do you think Karzai will survive without American support??

 

[TaimiKhan]

The Drone strikes have been devastatingly effective. Just look at the number of terrorist attacks in Pakistan versus when the Drone campaign picked up tempo in mid-2007. Since then as the drone strikes went up, the number of terrorist attacks in Pakistan went down.

The terrorists living in FATA are too busy avoiding drones than planning terrorist attacks and other major terrorists have been killed. So contrary to your argument that 1 drone strike will create 10 suicide bombers, I think its the other way around. 1 Drone strike has probably avoided 10 potential suicide attacks.

Just a few months ago, the terrorist who planned and executed the Ahmedi Mosque bombing which killed hundreds was taken out in a drone strike. God only knows how many more innocents he would have killed had he been alive.

The Drones are a joint CIA-ISI operation. ISI sends its agents to FATA to case potential targets and that information is relayed back to CIA which takes action against these areas. The targets have included TTP, Afghan Taliban, Haqqanis, and Al Qaeda.

As for Al Qaeda being offended by suicide bombings. It was not due to some humanitarian gesture of all the innocents these beasts killed but due to losing the public and moral support.

So by and large, the drone strikes have been very effective. They have decapitated the TTP, Al Qaeda, and taken out terrorists who would be otherwise plotting more terrorist attacks in Pakistan and planning to kill more innocent Pakistanis. Yes, Drone strikes do sometimes kill innocent people but there is no weapon system on the planet in which that cannot be avoided.

Unfortunately, innocents will die in any war in which the battlefield is civilian populated areas.

Even in World War II, when the Allies invaded Normandy on June 6, 1944, Allied Naval Bombardment to soften up Hitler's Atlantic Wall killed an estimated 4,000 French Civilians. But that doesn't mean that Allies should have not invaded Normandy or the French people would turn against the Allied Armies. The blame lies on the Germans for invading France.

And thus, even if a Drone strike kills an innocent person, I blame these foreign terrorists and these tribals for giving shelter to these foreign terrorists which brought this war here.

Its simple. The Tribals need to stop sheltering foreign terrorists, stop plotting attacks in Afghanistan and Pakistan. And we will leave them alone and they can go back to chopping each other's heads off and starting tribal wars with each other over minor issues and having a life span of 30.

After reading your first para, i had no courage left to go forward, as its useless to argue with people who get their info from wikipedias or stuff like that by sitting somewhere abroad.

After 2007, when drone strikes increased, Pakistan saw the bloodiest & most brutal time period in this whole War of Terror. Major blasts happened in 2007 and going forward, huge ones. The city i live in, it saw for whole 11 days non stop suicide bombings, not a single day would pass when we would not hear a bomb blast, and 4 of them happened within 1Km of where i live, even my 2 month old daughter got injured in one of the blasts. Since the say Army moved against the US funded/supported TTP, things started to come to normal, it wasn't due to US drone strikes, rather it was due to the Pak Army operations that we are now at a relative peace, but since in recent days 2 drones have happened, very soon it will be avenged by the TTP through some suicide blasts.

Sorry, could not reply to your rest of the post as did not read after your ignorant filled first para, which is not what the reality is.

US drone strikes have brought more death and destruction for Pakistanis, the calm we see is thanks to the hundreds of soldiers we lost against US funded/supported TTP and controlling the movement of US contractors.