U.S. Receives 3D radar S-300 system's Ukraine - F-35, Patriot are not good

[blackuday]

State-owned enterprise Research and Production Complex Iskra is Ukraine's leading developer and manufacturer of ground radar equipment.

Defence Blog / Archive Photo According to ImportGenius, a website tracking import/export operations at shipping docks, the U.S. Army Contracting Command received the 3D mobile air-defense radar system from Ukraine. The notice by the ImportGenius said that the U.S. Army Contracting Command center in Orlando has received 3D mobile air-defense radar system, called the 36D6M1-1, from Ukraine through SFTC “Progress,” according to Defence Blog. The 36D6M1-1is a mobile 3D airspace surveillance radar system that was developed by the SE “Scientific and Production Complex “Iskra” and is designed to be used as a part of modern automated Air Defense systems, Anti-Aircraft Missile Complexes and to detect low flying air targets under active and passive jamming as well as to provide Air Traffic Control both for military and civil purpose. However, it is expected that the Ukrainian-made 3D mobile air-defense radar system could be used for technologies analysis and operational OPFOR training. Read also Ukraine's air shield: Taking off to 21st century It is worth noting that previously business structures associated with Russia tried to disrupt the contract for supply Ukrainian 3D radar system to the United States. According to the notice by the Ukrainian industrial group UkrOboronProm, LLC KIT tried to cripple the production process at SE Iskra through fake accusations in 2017 of non-payment of patent royalties.

The Ukrainian defense group added that LLC KIT was in fact a fictitious firm, with which the former management of the company entered into an agreement, for the sake of money siphoning. The court declared this contract invalid as LLC KIT failed to meet UkrOboronProm's requirements, received no UOP accreditation, and had nothing to do with the defense complex of Ukraine as such. State-owned enterprise Research and Production Complex Iskra is Ukraine's leading developer and manufacturer of ground radar equipment. The company is part of UkrOboronProm Concern.

Read more on UNIAN: https://economics.unian.info/102462...le-air-defense-radar-system-from-ukraine.html

 

[blackuday]

The F-35 actually did not pass the S-400 in Syria, it was all false advertising, if it was actually invisible to the S-400 in Syria, the US probably did not need to buy older radars.

Patriot system is not good enough, if it's good enough why the US needs to buy an old radar system to evaluate (or copy)

In my opinion, this kind of radar is used to evaluate and copy, similar to what the US copied radar technology from Germany (after WW2) or the former Soviet Union (find the billion dollar spy Tolkachev you will understand)

 

[gambit]

The F-35 actually did not pass the S-400 in Syria, it was all false advertising, if it was actually invisible to the S-400 in Syria, the US probably did not need to buy older radars.

Patriot system is not good enough, if it's good enough why the US needs to buy an old radar system to evaluate (or copy)

In my opinion, this kind of radar is used to evaluate and copy, similar to what the US copied radar technology from Germany (after WW2) or the former Soviet Union (find the billion dollar spy Tolkachev you will understand)

You are wrong.

https://www.nasic.af.mil/About-Us/F...l-air-and-space-intelligence-center-heritage/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Ground_Intelligence_Center
https://www.onr.navy.mil/en/Science...es/Transition/Foreign-Comparative-Testing-FCT

Every branch of the US military have a foreign technology exploitation office. This is not about reverse engineering because our stuff is supposedly 'inferior'. A weapons system reflects not only the technology level but also the war fighting philosophy. Each service strives to acquire foreign technology appropriate to its area of warfare in order to better understand how a potential adversary may and will fight.

 

[war&peace]

The F-35 actually did not pass the S-400 in Syria, it was all false advertising, if it was actually invisible to the S-400 in Syria, the US probably did not need to buy older radars.

Patriot system is not good enough, if it's good enough why the US needs to buy an old radar system to evaluate (or copy)

In my opinion, this kind of radar is used to evaluate and copy, similar to what the US copied radar technology from Germany (after WW2) or the former Soviet Union (find the billion dollar spy Tolkachev you will understand)

That's the truth. S-400 far exceeds the capabilities of any US system and that is why USA is so paranoid about it and now it is resorting to buy an older version of this system from Ukraine to reverse-engineer it.

 

[T-72B]

US air defense system is worser than Russian ones but in the air force US the winner,that's why Russia concentrated on their air dfense system because they know they can't beat USAF in air

 

[Maarkhoor]

They probably buying Russian Radar not to copy but to produce counter measures to fool it.

 

[gambit]

That's the truth. S-400 far exceeds the capabilities of any US system and that is why USA is so paranoid about it and now it is resorting to buy an older version of this system from Ukraine to reverse-engineer it.

Am sure you speak from extensive personal experience in air defense.

 

[Fawadqasim1]

Ukraine has shot itself and Russia in the foot
Ghaddar bikao maal

 

[gambit]

They probably buying Russian Radar not to copy but to produce counter measures to fool it.

There is no 'probably' about it.

https://www.nellis.af.mil/News/Article/284637/one-of-a-kind-squadron-trains-airmen-from-ground-up/

"The vast experience and all of the different backgrounds add a lot to the quality of work we produce," Lt. Col. Matt Nicholson, 507th ADAS commander said. "The fighter pilots bring an aggressive aspect, the Electronic Warfare Officers try to find out how to defeat the SAM's electronically, and the intelligence Airmen look at obstacles at a more academic level and view information as a means to solve a problem."

The 507th also travels to other bases, US and overseas, to provide threat training tailored to platforms and even geography. For example, when I was active duty and on the F-16 at MacDill AFB, we needed training on how to penetrate from the sea. The Gulf of Mexico provides that background. Flying over water allows lower penetration altitude than over land. On the other hand, air defense radar are not hampered by terrain features. The combination allows crews of both sides to innovate tactics. Sometimes the 507th win, sometimes the fighters win.

The 507th have actual Soviet/Russian hardware. How we acquire these systems, sometimes secret, sometimes classified. But the actual hardware is important. We want to know the specific freq spectrum, how it influence operations and tactics, and strengths and weaknesses. The only thing the 507th does not do are the actual missile launches. Obviously, we do not want to shoot our own pilots.

 

[Maarkhoor]

There is no 'probably' about it.

https://www.nellis.af.mil/News/Article/284637/one-of-a-kind-squadron-trains-airmen-from-ground-up/

The 507th also travels to other bases, US and overseas, to provide threat training tailored to platforms and even geography. For example, when I was active duty and on the F-16 at MacDill AFB, we needed training on how to penetrate from the sea. The Gulf of Mexico provides that background. Flying over water allows lower penetration altitude than over land. On the other hand, air defense radar are not hampered by terrain features. The combination allows crews of both sides to innovate tactics. Sometimes the 507th win, sometimes the fighters win.

The 507th have actual Soviet/Russian hardware. How we acquire these systems, sometimes secret, sometimes classified. But the actual hardware is important. We want to know the specific freq spectrum, how it influence operations and tactics, and strengths and weaknesses. The only thing the 507th does not do are the actual missile launches. Obviously, we do not want to shoot our own pilots.

You just proved my point.

 

[scionofPakwattan]

That's the truth. S-400 far exceeds the capabilities of any US system and that is why USA is so paranoid about it and now it is resorting to buy an older version of this system from Ukraine to reverse-engineer it.

if a counter to S-300's radar is developed, isnt it bad for Pakistan because our chinese SAMS that we procured are essentially russian S-300 modified or copied by china? just wondering if its a threat to our AD?

 

[gambit]

if a counter to S-300's radar is developed, isnt it bad for Pakistan because our chinese SAMS that we procured are essentially russian S-300 modified or copied by china? just wondering if its a threat to our AD?

It depends on the context of 'counter', as in countermeasures.

Countermeasures comes in two main types: technical and tactical.

To simplify the two, a technical countermeasure can be jamming, and the tactical countermeasure can be flying below the radar horizon -- once it is discovered.

As a manufacturer, when you build the next iteration of an existing system, naturally you would insert improvements to existing features, or add new features, or enhance durability, or increase mobility, or anything you deem necessary based upon market and customer analyses. So for this, we have S-300 to S-400 to S-500 and so on.

Before you upgrade, you have to analyze existing threats, which are two main types: Immediate and Potential.

As the manufacturer, I would make an iteration of my current product based upon potential threats. So for Russia, that potential threat would be low observable platforms.

As the buyer, you must analyze your immediate threats to see if there is a probability of they become low observable.

Low radar observability is a technical countermeasure. If there is low to no chance that your immediate threats will become 'stealth', then there is no need for an upgrade because 'stealth' cost a lot of money to evolve.

On the other hand, tactical countermeasures are often real time in development. If I am hostile to you, all I have to do is fly as much as I can afford the fuel cost. If the next iteration of the current defense system can handle my tactical countermeasure, you have to upgrade.

Immediate +++++++++++++++++++++++++ || +++++++++++++++++++++++++ Potential

Both tactical and technical countermeasures can move a Potential threat towards the Immediate. Usually, once an analysis have a Potential crosses the halfway point, the threat is categorized as Immediate.

So how do you know if a hostile air force can raise its capabilities so that its main weapons systems overwhelms your current defense? By analyzing your own defensive measures. If you are confident that your enemy cannot take the technical route, that leave the tactical route. So if you can defeat your own defense via tactics, so can -- and will -- your enemy.

That is why the USAF have programs like Red Flag and Weapons School, and units like the 507th Air Defense Aggressor Squadron, to develop both technical and tactical countermeasures to known Soviet/Russian platforms. That is why we works hard to acquire Soviet/Russian hardware to know as much as we can on how Soviet/Russian clients will use these hardware.

Your question of "if a counter to S-300's radar is developed..." is misguided, and I say that kindly.

The PAF is fully capable of taking the initiative to explore that 'if'. Your question puts the burden on someone else for your defense. Whatever you have, YOU must work to defeat all of them. If you can affect that threat scale above, so can anyone hostile to you.

 

[LeGenD]

That's the truth. S-400 far exceeds the capabilities of any US system and that is why USA is so paranoid about it and now it is resorting to buy an older version of this system from Ukraine to reverse-engineer it.

LMAO

S-400 is below PAC-3 MSE.

 

[war&peace]

LMAO

S-400 is below PAC-3 MSE.

Lolzzzz

 

[LeGenD]

Lolzzzz

Not joking.

PAC-2 variants < S-400 variants < PAC-3 MSE < S-500 variants < THAAD

They probably buying Russian Radar not to copy but to produce counter measures to fool it.

Somebody gets it now.

US air defense system is worser than Russian ones but in the air force US the winner,that's why Russia concentrated on their air dfense system because they know they can't beat USAF in air

See the pecking order above.

US is ahead in all areas at present; Russia doesn't have the budget to keep up with American technological prowess. This isn't to say that Russian designs do not have merits of their own; taking a look at them is absolutely worth it.

if a counter to S-300's radar is developed, isnt it bad for Pakistan because our chinese SAMS that we procured are essentially russian S-300 modified or copied by china? just wondering if its a threat to our AD?

They spoofed Pakistani radar systems on the night of May 2 when they raided a compound system in Abbottabad in 2011. This is why PAF was unable to respond in time.