U.S. Influence Rises in Asia amid Chinese Disputes

[below_freezing]

Yes that is true that no countries foreign policy is entirely democratic, but in democratic societies public opinion plays a very major part in not allowing a draconian foreign policy to be implemented. It checks the excesses that a government might indulge in terms of foreign policy.

Lets take the Netherlands for example - they have ended the Afghanistan deployment as the public opinion is not in favor of it, though the government had favored a continued deployment to keep Washington happy.

and what is all this talk of not treating us as badly as South Korea or Vietnam? are you doing us a favor? this is precisely the arrogant attitude that we associate with the Chinese government here (as different to the people). India is no push over & neither are Japan, South Korea or even Vietnam. Antagonize them at your peril or try to reconcile the differences.

The netherlands is not important enough that ending its deployment matters. Will the US pull support for Saudi Arabia? It's a horrific medieval monarchy. But it provides oil to the US. When it comes to big countries, democracy does not mean s*. And India is not a pushover, that's correct. We are harsh with South Korea and Vietnam because they have STOLEN OUR LAND and already declared their hostility to us openly. India has done the same. India was going to destroy China and Pakistan in 96 hours, remember? Yet we have not threatened India in any way. There is no country in the world as patient as us, that will make the number of concessions that we do. We have solved every single border dispute, except the one with India, whose fault is that? If you had the US as a northern neighbor be prepared to replace your British English with the American version.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

I know some of my Chinese friends are going to contest this claim, but that how the majority of us feel here.

I understand and respect the fact that many Indian people feel their nation has been treated unfairly by China.

Personally, I agree that the CCP has often "needled" India for no reason at all.

Chinese politics is complicated, and as you said, many government actions are taken to satisfy the "nationalist" sentiment that exists in China.

Also, the CCP is finding it difficult to balance our important relationships with both India and Pakistan. The government actions to appease one side, will often anger the other side.

For me, the bottom line is this. Both China and India have the priority of maintaining economic growth, and both nations are nuclear powers.

For those reasons, I can not see how China and India could ever go to war in the future, without risking mutual nuclear annihilation. Nobody wants that.

 

[Zebronic]

To quote some wise Indian members here. Sympathy is easy to get, Jealousy you have to earn. Suits your case very well.

Its not about sympathy or jealousy,its about the Gang of China, pakistan and north Korea.Your proxy Pakistan and North Korea is suicidal for Asian peace.Its very clear in mind of East Asian country, USA and India what china trying to do with this country.

 

[Zebronic]

I understand and respect the fact that many Indian people feel their nation has been treated unfairly by China.

Personally, I agree that the CCP has often "needled" India for no reason at all.

Chinese politics is complicated, and as you said, many government actions are taken to satisfy the "nationalist" sentiment that exists in China.

Also, the CCP is finding it difficult to balance our important relationships with both India and Pakistan. The government actions to appease one side, will often anger the other side.

For me, the bottom line is this. Both China and India have the priority of maintaining economic growth, and both nations are nuclear powers.

For those reasons, I can not see how China and India could ever go to war in the future, without risking mutual nuclear annihilation. Nobody wants that.

China and India is not going to war at-least from Indian side but china power play and china pakistan relation in the field of nuclear is concern for India.

 

[Renegade]

I hope the US and India get what they are working for.

I am not sure what the US & India are looking for, but I am pretty sure of what you are looking for - an India, China flame war on the thread. Sorry to disappoint you, but you are not getting one.

 

[Nomenclature]

Yes that is true that no countries foreign policy is entirely democratic, but in democratic societies public opinion plays a very major part in not allowing a draconian foreign policy to be implemented. It checks the excesses that a government might indulge in terms of foreign policy.

Lets take the Netherlands for example - they have ended the Afghanistan deployment as the public opinion is not in favor of it, though the government had favored a continued deployment to keep Washington happy.

and what is all this talk of not treating us as badly as South Korea or Vietnam? are you doing us a favor? this is precisely the arrogant attitude that we associate with the Chinese government here (as different to the people). India is no push over & neither are Japan, South Korea or even Vietnam. Antagonize them at your peril or try to reconcile the differences.

I honestly don't see there's any problem with how we're dealing with Vietnam or South Korea.

Vietnam and China has been harassing each other's fishmen for years now, and protesting each other's moves in the disputed areas. It's actually quite funny reading the two countries' protests as they both talk in exactly the same communist propaganda speak. As far as I'm concerned we're just trading exactly the same barbs. Find me something China has done to Vietnam in recent years that Vietnam hasn't done to China then perhaps I'll reconsider.

As for South Korea, after Cheonan sinking their government tried to strongarm China with a bit of American help, and failed quite miserably. They're now busying mending ties with us.

I thank for your kind advice 'antagonize them at your peril', but I have to say any such antagonism is mutual. I'm also very doubtful about the 'peril' part, countries in the region has been antagonizing each other for decades now, and few has been in any 'peril' because of that.

 

[Renegade]

The netherlands is not important enough that ending its deployment matters.

Ya maybe the Netherlands is not important enough on the Afghan front. I merely quoted it as an example of how in a democratic framework public opinion can have a moderating & correcting effect on wrong foreign policy. A foreign policy that people don't agree with.

Will the US pull support for Saudi Arabia? It's a horrific medieval monarchy. But it provides oil to the US. When it comes to big countries, democracy does not mean s*.

Indeed the United States is no saint & Saudi Arabia is a "horrific medieval monarchy", no disagreements on that. But democracy is simply not **** when it comes to big countries. Lets look at the US itself - they went to Iraq duped by the Bush administration but as soon as the American public realized that they have been tricked, public opinion turned against the Government, Donald Rumsfeld was forced to resign, Colin Powell quit and Bush himself faced a lot of flak for going to war over sexed up intelligence. The result of all this public outcry has been the gradual withdrawal of US troops out of Iraq and phased withdrawal plan to leave Iraq.

All this simply would not have been possible without the public outcry over the entire affair. Had it not been for the public opinion the Americans would have established permanent bases and stayed put in Iraq. Which would have been another disaster in the making. So public opinion here laid out a correction course and the Americans are getting out of Iraq.

And India is not a pushover, that's correct. We are harsh with South Korea and Vietnam because they have STOLEN OUR LAND and already declared their hostility to us openly. India has done the same. India was going to destroy China and Pakistan in 96 hours, remember? Yet we have not threatened India in any way. There is no country in the world as patient as us, that will make the number of concessions that we do. We have solved every single border dispute, except the one with India, whose fault is that? If you had the US as a northern neighbor be prepared to replace your British English with the American version.

When did we threaten to destroy China? Please remind me for that is news to me. Unless you are quoting some eager fan boy from the forum, i really don't thing that there has been an official threat like that.

As for the rest of your statement. At the moment i can only say that i disagree with your assessment with relation to India at least. These matter have to be looked at more objectively & more carefully before coming to such conclusions.

 

[Renegade]

I honestly don't see there's any problem with how we're dealing with Vietnam or South Korea.

Vietnam and China has been harassing each other's fishmen for years now, and protesting each other's moves in the disputed areas. It's actually quite funny reading the two countries' protests as they both talk in exactly the same communist propaganda speak. As far as I'm concerned we're just trading exactly the same barbs. Find me something China has done to Vietnam in recent years that Vietnam hasn't done to China then perhaps I'll reconsider.

Never commented on the nature of your treatment of either Vietnam or South Korea, i am not aware of the entire problem and it would be immature of me to do so without looking at it holistically. Maybe you are correct or maybe you are wrong, i for one am hardly qualified to comment. Probably i didn't put it across properly. I was merely pointing out about the choice of words of below_freezing, he sounded like he was doing us a big favor by not treating us like Vietnam & South Korea. That's what i took offense to & it is entirely in that context that i pointed out that "India is no pushover & antagonize us only at your peril". Hope this clears the air.

 

[notsuperstitious]

India was going to destroy China and Pakistan in 96 hours, remember?

This is a horribly taken out of context and deliberately misquoted piece. And it gets repeated so many times on this forum.

No such claim or plan was made. The general said India (will plan in such a way that) will be in a position to (in case of a two front war) rally its forces and make counter strikes aginst enemy forces within 96 hours.

And now look what is being quoted. And by some posters even after being corrected.

 

[Molawchai]

"India is no pushover & antagonize us only at your peril". Hope this clears the air.

Hmmm, who should i believe? a navy chief or an armchair general? AWW a tough one.....

For a nuclear-armed military representing the interests of a billion-plus people, the lack of confidence is quite striking. India's military leadership has made a stunning confession that New Delhi doesn't have the stomach for a fight, if push came to shove on the disputed Sino-Indian boundary
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/india-cant-match-chinas-military-force-navy-chief/99037-3.html

 

[ek_indian]

This is a horribly taken out of context and deliberately misquoted piece. And it gets repeated so many times on this forum.

No such claim or plan was made. The general said India (will plan in such a way that) will be in a position to (in case of a two front war) rally its forces and make counter strikes aginst enemy forces within 96 hours.

And now look what is being quoted. And by some posters even after being corrected.

We are wasting our time... there is a reason why China did not react on that particular statement. Because they understood our meanings. No other country on this planet did so much jumping. But again, sanity is a virtue.

@topic: Source is nytimes. The paper has published some anti-China articles in recent days. I am not sure what exactly we are discussing here. No country makes their policies based on media reports. China is a big power (arguably just after USA). And it is growing day by day. Just to sum up, not a good show of journalism by nytimes.

 

[ek_indian]

Hmmm, who should i believe? a navy chief or an armchair general? AWW a tough one.....

For a nuclear-armed military representing the interests of a billion-plus people, the lack of confidence is quite striking. India's military leadership has made a stunning confession that New Delhi doesn't have the stomach for a fight, if push came to shove on the disputed Sino-Indian boundary
India can't match China's military force: Navy Chief - India News - IBNLive

He did not say this. Read the link you have provided. He said we are not at par with China which is true and everybody knows it.

But again, why I am wasting my time explaining this to you, that too when it is offtopic?

 

[Renegade]

Hmmm, who should i believe? a navy chief or an armchair general? AWW a tough one.....

For a nuclear-armed military representing the interests of a billion-plus people, the lack of confidence is quite striking. India's military leadership has made a stunning confession that New Delhi doesn't have the stomach for a fight, if push came to shove on the disputed Sino-Indian boundary
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/india-cant-match-chinas-military-force-navy-chief/99037-3.html

ek_indian has already rubbished the nonsense that you have posted. I don't need to say more.

Btw, why hide behind Thai flags? Is it because you are too ashamed to display your own?

 

[Renegade]

Duplicate post - Deleted

 

[Molawchai]

ek_indian has already rubbished the nonsense that you have posted. I don't need to say more.

Btw, why hide behind Thai flags? Is it because you are too ashamed to display your own?[/quote]

Hmmm, who should i believe? a navy chief or an armchair general? AWW a tough one.....

For a nuclear-armed military representing the interests of a billion-plus people, the lack of confidence is quite striking. India's military leadership has made a stunning confession that New Delhi doesn't have the stomach for a fight, if push came to shove on the disputed Sino-Indian boundary
India can't match China's military force: Navy Chief - India News - IBNLive

Seriously , can you read?, it clearly written as what your "Military leadership's confession", who you trying to fool?

Well, not surprising at all, typical Indian loser mentality,"Personal attacks will be your last stand" ah?

Whats my nationality have to do with the argument anyway, you need to prove your "accusation" don't you, otherwise it will be nothing other than bad breath shooting out from your big mouth period