U.S. and Pakistan: different wars on terror

[S-2]

"This isn't the Pakistan of the 60's where they could sanction us."

Sanctioned you in the nineties too. Don't forget.

Just sayin'...

I don't know. You guys sure are pretty tough. We'll us yanks can only hope that you spare our azzes, pretty please.

Found any of those special commando cops to serve in SWAT yet?

"I believe that with the new US administration coming in we should set the terms and conditions straight forward. No more diplomacy. We need to limit any interaction with the Americans."

Really tell us how it's gonna be, eh? Maybe put us on double secret probation? Oh yeah, I can just see Zardari making that call or asking Haqqani to deliver the message Obama and Biden. No time like right now is what I say...

Yup.

You guys might wish to calm down a bit. Kharian Beast, maybe I fumbled your intent but you're not coming across in hot pursuit. There are ANA forces all over the area and something bad WILL go down. Turkish ops are run through a joint intel cell with us. No Iraqi army. No peshmerga. No U.S. army forces anywhere near their ops and we make damned sure of it.

 

[Kharian_Beast]

You guys might wish to calm down a bit. Kharian Beast, maybe I fumbled your intent but you're not coming across in hot pursuit. There are ANA forces all over the area and something bad WILL go down. Turkish ops are run through a joint intel cell with us. No Iraqi army. No peshmerga. No U.S. army forces anywhere near their ops and we make damned sure of it.

Maybe if your leadership took its head out of its corn hole, this option of hot pursuit could be utilized and it could benefit us both, but instead your sentiments echo what is going on clearly...Taliban are not being destroyed they are being protected and supplied to infiltrate and divide Pakistan which has been the real objective all along. It is all a clever circus show. Installing anti-Pakistan assets like Karzai as dictator and tripling poppy production to fund their war are clear proofs.

 

[S-2]

Your thoughts on "hot pursuit" are welcome if belated. That's an option that heretofore has been not made available to our forces by your government.

Funny you be so self-righteous about those notions now. I'm not opposed one bit and eagerly welcome full coordination with your forces. We've never not wished for that but it's been non-existent till only very recently.

Share ideas. Operate in parallel? Sure.

Long time coming. Give McKiernan a call. He'd be pleased.

 

[maximus]

"This isn't the Pakistan of the 60's where they could sanction us."

Sanctioned you in the nineties too. Don't forget.

Just sayin'...

I don't know. You guys sure are pretty tough. We'll us yanks can only hope that you spare our azzes, pretty please.

Found any of those special commando cops to serve in SWAT yet?

"I believe that with the new US administration coming in we should set the terms and conditions straight forward. No more diplomacy. We need to limit any interaction with the Americans."

Really tell us how it's gonna be, eh? Maybe put us on double secret probation? Oh yeah, I can just see Zardari making that call or asking Haqqani to deliver the message Obama and Biden. No time like right now is what I say...

Yup.

You guys might wish to calm down a bit. Kharian Beast, maybe I fumbled your intent but you're not coming across in hot pursuit. There are ANA forces all over the area and something bad WILL go down. Turkish ops are run through a joint intel cell with us. No Iraqi army. No peshmerga. No U.S. army forces anywhere near their ops and we make damned sure of it.

Well, you got the point and that's all that matters really. You think you're very smart, don't you? Well, you're just a little kid that's acting like an official spokesperson of the US. Sorry to burst your bubble buddy, but you're not an official spokesman. This isn't the Pakistan of the 60's which only fought conventional wars. This is a nuclear Pakistan with a solid delivery capability. That changes the equation. It gives more leverage to Pakistan and we're already noticing the effects. American stance is changing all the time. Your threats and sanctions are now meaningless more than ever before. In fact, the sudden willingness to provide F-16s is enough indication. You ought to know better since we achieved more military success during the sanctions. You're just a frustrated barking dog. We all know that a barking dog is harmless. Stop barking and realize the changing situation. You're not what you used to be. Your credibility in the world is close to zilch. You're financing your wars through loans taken from China for God sake. Your economy is an incredible mess with a forecast of recession holding on for years. Debts have increased to a roof level. People like yourself are just insane warmongers. You don't even represent the majority in the US any more. Conservative America has even had to chose a black president in this time of crisis which they normally never would have!!! Dude, get to grips with the changing reality! Wake up and smell the coffee!

It's Swat and not SWAT Yank. We're doing a fair bit of cleaning in Swat. Most are rouge US operatives which we will chop up into pieces along with AQ and Taliban who by the way are also part of your creation. Just wait and see... It's only a matter of time. This is our land and we will do everything to rid it from malign external rouge elements. There is no question about it.

Zardari is nothing but a stooge. I've already explained that Zardari isn't the person who calls the shots in Pakistan. It's the army and everyone knows that. Besides, even Zardari is careful and aware of the dubious role that the US is playing. I've already noticed caution in his approach. Even this man is now tilting towards China which can only be good for Pakistan. The US has left such a bad impression over the years that no one trusts you any more.

That's a bloody sheer lie. The Turks have all along been warning the Americans that they were going to pursue the PKK on the Iraqi border. The US always opposed this move, but simply couldn't do jack crap in response. Pakistan needs to have a similar approach and take this illegitimate war into Afghanistan.

Stop dramatizing... Pakistan has nothing to gain by defying the US. Frankly, Pakistan wants no beef with anyone. Pakistan should simply keep out of the WoT and secure its borders. It should make it abundantly clear to the US that any aggression or misadventure on our side of the border will be dealt with. That's all. Not too much asked for, right? Every nation has the right to protect its sovereignty. You fight your petty wars on your own. We aren't interested.

 

[Kharian_Beast]

Your thoughts on "hot pursuit" are welcome if belated. That's an option that heretofore has been not made available to our forces by your government.

Funny you be so self-righteous about those notions now. I'm not opposed one bit and eagerly welcome full coordination with your forces. We've never not wished for that but it's been non-existent till only very recently.

Share ideas. Operate in parallel? Sure.

Long time coming. Give McKiernan a call. He'd be pleased.

Well we might as well make use of the fact that American forces are already in the area, if these buggers weren't turning our country into a killing field I would have been opposed to the idea but it needs to be done. We can sweep aside any ambitious Indian attempts to join this war that doesn't concern them in the least at the same time, 2 birds with 1 stone.

Do you have McKiernan's cell # ? Something tells me he wouldn't be interested.

 

[S-2]

"Something tells me he wouldn't be interested."

Why? Because of this-

"We can sweep aside any ambitious Indian attempts to join this war that doesn't concern them in the least at the same time..."

Maybe I missed something as it would be coming out of the blue if there were serious discussions being taken by U.S. and Indian officials now for troop reinforcement.

There are plenty of valid reasons why not to include your sensitivities on the matter. If necessary, we'd do so if India agreed. Necessary, though, includes us exhausting all readily available forces and still believing in the mission's validity. If so, the reward of doing so would have to exceed the risk to our relationship to Pakistan.

Not saying we wouldn't but there'd be a calculus applied to the request that would likely be very calibrated.

Having said all that, the over-whelming desire has been for us to close ties along the border. I've not seen a U.S. official express any other sentiment. Torkum and other joint coordination facililties (six in all) have only been slow-played because of Pakistan. Barracks for Pakistani troops hadn't been occupied as of July though the facility opened last March in Torkum. We've any number of past rifle battalion commanders express frustration at ops that were ceased along the border-militias crossing without hot pursuit nor interdiction by F.C. forces though nearby and notified.

I'm sure there's almost nothing more that McKiernan would enjoy than a close operating relationship with large numbers of P.A. units on the other side of the border.

That would be neat.

 

[S-2]

"You fight your petty wars on your own. We aren't interested."

Really?

"petty"? U.N., Afghanistan (going into their second elections), and ISAF/NATO. That's 41 NATO and non-NATO nations in Afghanistan trying to effect positive change. There's considerable global interest in that war so I don't know how petty it appears to others and it sure looks like we're not entirely on our own.

That war is being fought right next door to you if you didn't know. That's o.k., though, Maximus. You just don't fret your lil' mind about that small matter. You just stay uninterested there.

It's all good on your side of the fence with oodles of cash in the ol' bank.

I'm amazed that you haven't figured this out-whether we stay or go, you've a sizable and very real war of your own right now within your nation. Not an "insurgency". No. At this point they've conquered vast swaths of your land and are instituting their laws. It's no longer Pakistan unless you are willing to earn it back in blood.

They intend to fight you for that privilege of calling that land yours. Bajaur and SWAT are just a small piece of the pie. You're at war with yourself right now.

 

[maximus]

Really?

"petty"? U.N., Afghanistan (going into their second elections), and ISAF/NATO. That's 41 NATO and non-NATO nations in Afghanistan trying to effect positive change. There's considerable global interest in that war so I don't know how petty it appears to others and it sure looks like we're not entirely on our own.

Gosh, give me a break! I think you're too delusional to think that those nations will stay indefinitely. There is an expiry date and we've already seen nations come and go. Besides, those nations (including the one in which I reside) are thinking very hard about whether to extend their stay. After all, the Americans are there for their own foul reasons. Why should any other nation sacrifice their troops and resources in a war that will give them nothing in return? Many countries are realizing that and placing a question mark...

That war is being fought right next door to you if you didn't know. That's o.k., though, Maximus. You just don't fret your lil' mind about that small matter. You just stay uninterested there.

True, we are aware of the war the next door, but we're also aware that this war is meant to infiltrate into Pakistan eventually. That's something we cannot afford. Besides, we've already lost thousands of troops and innocent lives. We have imported the problems of WoT within our own borders due to alliance with the US. We are already paying the price on a daily basis. It's time to rectify this by firstly cleaning up the mess on our own. Secondly, by limiting any cooperation with the US who has been the root cause of the problem. You may fight your war, but not at our expense anymore.

It's all good on your side of the fence with oodles of cash in the ol' bank.

You don't worry about that. Like I said, this isn't a matter of willingness or luxury, but one of necessity. Time and resources are just a minute sacrifice for safeguarding Pakistan from dangers luring across the border. Dangers that threaten Pakistan's very existence. Did you know that your government has also been opposing this idea? Every good suggestion on our part is being ignored. That is an indication that the US has other vile plans. We cannot go along. We will do whatever is in the best interest of Pakistan.

I'm amazed that you haven't figured this out-whether we stay or go, you've a sizable and very real war of your own right now within your nation. Not an "insurgency". No. At this point they've conquered vast swaths of your land and are instituting their laws. It's no longer Pakistan unless you are willing to earn it back in blood.

Of course, we have an ongoing war within our borders. We never had such problems (at least on this scale) before the US decided to invade Afghanistan. All these cranky foreign fighters have ever since been coming to this area primarily from Iraq. The security situation of Pakistan and the whole region has as a result tumbled down. Exactly the reason why I keep on suggesting that it's high time to rectify this mess. That can only be achieved if Pakistan decides that enough is enough.

We will fight these crazy people, but on our own conditions.

 

[Kharian_Beast]

Since drone strikes are being used as hot pursuit of militants into Pakistan, we should have the right to lob shells/missiles into hideouts and base camps via mutual intelligence sharing with ISAF. If this is not allowed, then we need to wrap up our participation, and for each drone strike, 1,000 shells must be sent haphazardly across the border.