U.K. university permanently expels student who had picture of Jew with Palestinian flag on his mouth

[Kailash Kumar]

@masterchief_mirza

Again you're putting words into people's mouths. I was pointing out the flaw in your biased viewpoint, that you join up a load of dots to suit your predetermined overarching narrative. I really don't care what conclusions you draw from knowing what Pakistanis on what forum. There are plenty of clowns out there in UK universities who would do such a thing and have (a) no interest in "ummah" politics and (b) have no interest in "Palestinian causes". I'm simply pointing out to you that antisemitism can exist in itself and cases should be assessed individually on their merits, not by making assumptions and pigeon holing them under a certain broader narrative.

Read my post again.

I did say that he could just be anti-Jewish.
(He might just only be anti-Jewish.).

And I also said I assumed that he was a Muslim and a Pakistani based on what I know about them
(Maybe I did assume that he was supporting the Palestinian cause.
Not so much because he had photoshopped a flag on the mouth of the Jew, but more because he is a South Asian. That is why I actually assumed it.
Before I joined PDF, I did not know much about Pakistanis.
After I joined PDF, I found out that many Pakistanis believe in this so called 'Ummah' concept.).

You are now repeating what I just said.

How on earth you made some further assumption on MY OWN opinions on the basis of my objective analysis of the flaws in your assumptions is truly beyond me. Where on earth did I state or suggest I subscribe to any specific viewpoint about Jews, Israelis, Palestinians etc in this thread? If you knew anything about me, you wouldn't be making such assumptions off the back of my perfectly reasonable crticism. You are revealing your own bias in your comments towards me by making these baseless assumptions about me.

I never said that you had a specific viewpoint about Jews, Israelis and Palestinians.

I said that you are very emotional just like other Pakistanis.

I did however say that:
'I found out that many Pakistanis believe in this so called 'Ummah' concept.'
and
'Something tells me that you do not want to believe that although Pakistanis and other non-Arab Muslims sacrifice themselves for (the cause of) Arabs, Arabs do not reciprocate this favour.'

Luckily PDF has a search function, which I now used to see what you really think of the 'Ummah' concept.

I found four quotes from you that give me an idea:

1.
It is true that there is no "ummah".

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/kurd...m-and-scare-turks.628947/page-3#post-11655481

2.
Pakistan needs to simply ditch this dependency on this narcotic called "ummah" and work on a transactional basis with its only remaining allies China and Turkey.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pm-i...ohammed-bin-zayed.633466/page-4#post-11741200

3.
Pakistan always made the false assumption that our Islamic roots gave us some intangible additional leverage with GCC.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/usa-india-israel-iran-kashmir.631114/page-4#post-11698044

4.
too many British pakistanis remain locked in ummah mode.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pak-...-for-balochistan.625153/page-11#post-11583453

From what you said above in other threads, I can conclude that you do not believe in Ummah, right?

So I am wrong about you.

But, am I also wrong about other (British) Pakistanis?

Look at the last second and third quote you said about Pakistan and the Ummah and especially the last quote you said about British Pakistanis.

You said: 'too many British pakistanis remain locked in ummah mode.'.

Is that not also an assumption?

How can you criticize me for making assumptions about Pakistan, Pakistanis, British Pakistanis, while you are the one that makes the same assumptions?

Are you not also biased?

 

[masterchief_mirza]

@masterchief_mirza



Read my post again.

I did say that he could just be anti-Jewish.
(He might just only be anti-Jewish.).

And I also said I assumed that he was a Muslim and a Pakistani based on what I know about them
(Maybe I did assume that he was supporting the Palestinian cause.
Not so much because he had photoshopped a flag on the mouth of the Jew, but more because he is a South Asian. That is why I actually assumed it.
Before I joined PDF, I did not know much about Pakistanis.
After I joined PDF, I found out that many Pakistanis believe in this so called 'Ummah' concept.).

You are now repeating what I just said.



I never said that you had a specific viewpoint about Jews, Israelis and Palestinians.

I said that you are very emotional just like other Pakistanis.

I did however say that:
'I found out that many Pakistanis believe in this so called 'Ummah' concept.'
and
'Something tells me that you do not want to believe that although Pakistanis and other non-Arab Muslims sacrifice themselves for (the cause of) Arabs, Arabs do not reciprocate this favour.'

Luckily PDF has a search function, which I now used to see what you really think of the 'Ummah' concept.

I found four quotes from you that give me an idea:

1.
It is true that there is no "ummah".

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/kurd...m-and-scare-turks.628947/page-3#post-11655481

2.
Pakistan needs to simply ditch this dependency on this narcotic called "ummah" and work on a transactional basis with its only remaining allies China and Turkey.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pm-i...ohammed-bin-zayed.633466/page-4#post-11741200

3.
Pakistan always made the false assumption that our Islamic roots gave us some intangible additional leverage with GCC.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/usa-india-israel-iran-kashmir.631114/page-4#post-11698044

4.
too many British pakistanis remain locked in ummah mode.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pak-...-for-balochistan.625153/page-11#post-11583453

From what you said above in other threads, I can conclude that you do not believe in Ummah, right?

So I am wrong about you.

But, am I also wrong about other (British) Pakistanis?

Look at the last second and third quote you said about Pakistan and the Ummah and especially the last quote you said about British Pakistanis.

You said: 'too many British pakistanis remain locked in ummah mode.'.

Is that not also an assumption?

How can you criticize me for making assumptions about Pakistan, Pakistanis, British Pakistanis, while you are the one that makes the same assumptions?

Are you not also biased?

Look I truly don't have the time for search functions and what not. Wish I did but sadly I don't. You initially said Pakistanis get "emotional" due to the lack of reciprocity over alleged Pakistani support for Palestinian causes. You have just stated that I -like other Pakistanis - am emotional, period. That is not what you said before. You initially assumed my "emotion" was some kind of bitterness over the aforementioned lack of reciprocity. I think you're changing what you say just to suit an evolving argument.

But fine, in any case, you have accepted that your assumption may have been misplaced. Now your point is that I too am guilty of making the same assumptions. Well hang on, the statements you seem to have located of mine on other threads are very specific. The only one which speaks of "ummah dependency" pertaining to a specific group of people is the last one which was on a thread about a fight at a cricket match. Now I based my opinion there on observations as a British Pakistani. Having lived here all my life, I am well placed to make such a specific observation.

In any case, you are obfuscating my original criticism beyond all recognition. If you review my criticisms, you will find I questioned how the op demonstrated "pro-Palestinian" or "anti-Israel" sentiment, as I felt you conflated several distinct phenomena due to your own bias. Your assumptions about whether Pakistanis are too dependent on "ummah" relationships are one thing. A British Pakistani is better placed to discuss that objectively. The REAL problem is that your assumptions on that issue directly contributed to your original assumption that antisemitism, criticism of Israel and pro-Palestinian sentiment are by definition conflatable and perhaps even synonymous! It is THAT assumption that I take exception to. Your "ummah" assumption contributes to that assumption because you possibly have a fixed stereotype in mind, upon which both your assumptions depend. I am simply refuting that stereotype and trying to enforce the idea that a single picture warrants interpretation on its merits, not on a string of successive assumptions that predicate/bias the opinion formed over said picture. Sorry for the long post. Hope it clears things up.

 

[Kailash Kumar]

Look I truly don't have the time for search functions and what not. Wish I did but sadly I don't. You initially said Pakistanis get "emotional" due to the lack of reciprocity over alleged Pakistani support for Palestinian causes. You have just stated that I -like other Pakistanis - am emotional, period. That is not what you said before. You initially assumed my "emotion" was some kind of bitterness over the aforementioned lack of reciprocity. I think you're changing what you say just to suit an evolving argument.

I actually meant both.
I should have written it down better.

But fine, in any case, you have accepted that your assumption may have been misplaced. Now your point is that I too am guilty of making the same assumptions. Well hang on, the statements you seem to have located of mine on other threads are very specific. The only one which speaks of "ummah dependency" pertaining to a specific group of people is the last one which was on a thread about a fight at a cricket match. Now I based my opinion there on observations as a British Pakistani. Having lived here all my life, I am well placed to make such a specific observation.

Really?
Just because I do not live there, does not mean that I do not know what is going on.
You live there, so you might know something about British Pakistanis in your 'bubble' but that does not mean that you now what happens in the whole British Pakistani community in the U.K.

In any case, you are obfuscating my original criticism beyond all recognition. If you review my criticisms, you will find I questioned how the op demonstrated "pro-Palestinian" or "anti-Israel" sentiment, as I felt you conflated several distinct phenomena due to your own bias. Your assumptions about whether Pakistanis are too dependent on "ummah" relationships are one thing. A British Pakistani is better placed to discuss that objectively.

You say that British Pakistanis are better placed to objectively discuss the dependency on 'Ummah' relationships.
But how so?
Relationships between people always have an emotional component.
And when a British Pakistani would discuss an (Ummah) relationship between his community and another (Muslim) community how can you be sure that this British Pakistani can be objective?

The REAL problem is that your assumptions on that issue directly contributed to your original assumption that antisemitism, criticism of Israel and pro-Palestinian sentiment are by definition conflatable and perhaps even synonymous! It is THAT assumption that I take exception to.

I do not think that they are synonymous.
I do however think that they are connected.

Your "ummah" assumption contributes to that assumption because you possibly have a fixed stereotype in mind, upon which both your assumptions depend. I am simply refuting that stereotype and trying to enforce the idea that a single picture warrants interpretation on its merits, not on a string of successive assumptions that predicate/bias the opinion formed over said picture. Sorry for the long post. Hope it clears things up.

Should I have interpreted the picture as I did?
Maybe not.

However the discussion which I wanted to have is one that I find legitimate to have.
And I may not have used the correct way to initiate this discussion, but that does not mean that the discussion should be ignored.

 

[Genghis khan1]

Arabs (falistins/labnese) are cowards. Other than wearing Palestinian bandannas and T-shirt in universities, Arab students will run away the moment some gora open up an actual conversation. I have seen Desis standing, supporting their cause but moment some pro Israeli Gora show up. Arabs will not have guts to say a single word.

 

[Yaseen1]

True face of fake freedom of expression of west is evident again. Freedom of expression only come to their mind when someone commits blasphemy and speak against govt and army of country working againnst their interests

 

[HannibalBarca]

Since when can we "Invent" Fantasies and claim it to be true?

@waz @Dubious Can you speak with this OP... not the first time OP pushing his "Illusion/fake extrapolation" in hope for Racial/Religious hate flaming...

 

[313ghazi]

If he'd drawn a d1ck on his face like most students he'd have been fine. Could have just claimed to be plastered.

 

[Nein]

Jews can mock anybody and get away with it when we do it, it is anti semitic after that they throw out the holocaust card to guilt trip people.

 

[Dubious]

while this South Asian Ummah Bhai

Did you read the article?

The university confirmed that the first-year student, known as Jonathan,

Dont think that is some Ummah bhai!

Please do read the article before uttering your BS!

 

[Politico]

The OP seems to be just as stupid as that Jonathan guy. Wild claims, insults and generalizations about Muslims and Brits of Pakistani origin seems to cloud the OP's posts

 

[Nein]

OY VEY