Type 095

[SinoChallenger]

How do you know the sound of the 095?

Revelations from insiders recently in the last few months. See the PDF thread on "noisy Chinese subs."

 

[Akasa]

The uppermost picture is a conceptual illustration of the hydrodynamic third-generation Type 095 nuclear attack submarine. The bottom two pictures depict the next-generation Type 096 ballistic missile submarine (e.g. the successor to the Type 094 Jin-class SSBN).

Type 095 has magnetohydrodynamic drive?

 

[Martian2]

Type 095 has magnetohydrodynamic drive?

Not as far as I know.

 

[Akasa]

Revelations from insiders recently in the last few months. See the PDF thread on "noisy Chinese subs."

Did they give out any more details?

 

[Sasquatch]

Huitong has updated his website saying that the first Type 095 is being built at Bohai Shipyard.

I've been looking for this site for months thanks for the link Sino

 

[Akasa]

I've been looking for this site for months thanks for the link Sino

What? Couldn't you just have searched "Huitong" on Google? lol

---------- Post added at 09:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:04 PM ----------

Maybe wait until the Type 096 becomes operational.

Can you link me to Peishen's post about the new Type 094?

 

[Sasquatch]

What? Couldn't you just have searched "Huitong" on Google? lol

Didn't know what it was called, came across it when looking for UAV's. heheh

 

[marshall]

Not as far as I know.

Huitong's website claims that the successor to the 041 Qing will have a magnetohydrodynamic drive. There's no source on this and sounds unbelievable. Has anybody heard any news on this? If true, it would make this the quietest diesel sub in the world.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

What? Couldn't you just have searched "Huitong" on Google? lol

---------- Post added at 09:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:04 PM ----------



Can you link me to Peishen's post about the new Type 094?

I am not really focusing on Peishens, the insiders whom i am following the most are Daokou and Laoma/Jiangshan.

 

[Martian2]

Huitong's website claims that the successor to the 041 Qing will have a magnetohydrodynamic drive. There's no source on this and sounds unbelievable. Has anybody heard any news on this? If true, it would make this the quietest diesel sub in the world.

Why are you surprised? It's only an engineering problem.

Magnetodydrogynanmic drives already exist. The problem is the inefficiency in energy transfer.

If a country can solve the technological problems (e.g. like the 13 years it took China to solve the problems for an ASBM system) then it has a practical and deployable system. If the technological problems regarding efficiency persist, research continues until they are solved.

There are only two relevant questions for China with regard to magnetohydrodynamic propulsion. How much money are you willing to throw at the problem? How long are you willing to sustain the investment to produce a potential technological advance?

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Magnetohydrodynamic drive - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"A magnetohydrodynamic drive or MHD propulsor is a method for propelling seagoing vessels using only electric and magnetic fields with no moving parts, using magnetohydrodynamics. The working principle involves electrification of the propellant (gas or water) which can then be directed by a magnetic field, pushing the vehicle in the opposite direction. Although some working prototypes exist, MHD drives remain impractical.
...
MHD is attractive because it has no moving parts, which means that a good design might be silent, reliable, efficient, and inexpensive.

The major problem with MHD is that with current technologies it is more expensive and much slower than a propeller driven by an engine. The extra expense is from the large generator that must be driven by an engine. Such a large generator is not required when an engine directly drives a propeller.
...
The film adaptation of The Hunt for Red October popularized the magnetohydrodynamic drive as a "caterpillar drive" for submarines, an undetectable "silent drive" intended to achieve stealth in submarine warfare. In reality, the current traveling through the water would create gases and noise, and the magnetic fields would induce a detectable magnetic signature. In the novel, of which the movie was an adaptation, the caterpillar was a pumpjet."

 

[marshall]

Why are you surprised? It's only an engineering problem.

Magnetodydrogynanmic drives already exist. The problem is the inefficiency in energy transfer.
...
----------

Magnetohydrodynamic drive - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

MHD is attractive because it has no moving parts, which means that a good design might be silent, reliable, efficient, and inexpensive.

The major problem with MHD is that with current technologies it is more expensive and much slower than a propeller driven by an engine. The extra expense is from the large generator that must be driven by an engine. Such a large generator is not required when an engine directly drives a propeller.

I don't doubt there is research in this propulsion. I find it unbelievable because at this point in time, the speed this sort of drive could generate is way slower than 10km/h. The advantage would be sound in the 60 to 70-something decibels so it would practically be noiseless, relatively speaking. It would make more sense to place it on a nuclear sub because of the power that could generate for the drive, but then you'd have the constant noise from the reactor which would defeat the purpose.

 

[Akasa]

Why are you surprised? It's only an engineering problem.

Magnetodydrogynanmic drives already exist. The problem is the inefficiency in energy transfer.

If a country can solve the technological problems (e.g. like the 13 years it took China to solve the problems for an ASBM system) then it has a practical and deployable system. If the technological problems regarding efficiency persist, research continues until they are solved.

There are only two relevant questions for China with regard to magnetohydrodynamic propulsion. How much money are you willing to throw at the problem? How long are you willing to sustain the investment to produce a potential technological advance?

----------

Magnetohydrodynamic drive - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"A magnetohydrodynamic drive or MHD propulsor is a method for propelling seagoing vessels using only electric and magnetic fields with no moving parts, using magnetohydrodynamics. The working principle involves electrification of the propellant (gas or water) which can then be directed by a magnetic field, pushing the vehicle in the opposite direction. Although some working prototypes exist, MHD drives remain impractical.
...
MHD is attractive because it has no moving parts, which means that a good design might be silent, reliable, efficient, and inexpensive.

The major problem with MHD is that with current technologies it is more expensive and much slower than a propeller driven by an engine. The extra expense is from the large generator that must be driven by an engine. Such a large generator is not required when an engine directly drives a propeller.
...
The film adaptation of The Hunt for Red October popularized the magnetohydrodynamic drive as a "caterpillar drive" for submarines, an undetectable "silent drive" intended to achieve stealth in submarine warfare. In reality, the current traveling through the water would create gases and noise, and the magnetic fields would induce a detectable magnetic signature. In the novel, of which the movie was an adaptation, the caterpillar was a pumpjet."

Funny how the inefficient propulsion method is used on a SSK instead of a SSN.

 

[ushikra]

Actually I find it unbelievable that an MHD drive would be noiseless or less noisy. In fact it would be as much noisy or more than any regular propeller. The interaction of electric currents with water over a magnetized field would generate a sound display of its own, and unless this whole drive is shielded or embedded nicely into the structure of the sub/vessel, there is no possible silence/stealth advantage.

 

[applesauce]

Actually I find it unbelievable that an MHD drive would be noiseless or less noisy. In fact it would be as much noisy or more than any regular propeller. The interaction of electric currents with water over a magnetized field would generate a sound display of its own, and unless this whole drive is shielded or embedded nicely into the structure of the sub/vessel, there is no possible silence/stealth advantage.

the "sound" is indeed really low if your using MHD, but several problem arises that prevents its use in military application,

the Drive would produce a massive magnetic field easily detected, shielding is a moot point at this stage as its size would be enormous
the current speed of MHD drives are very very slow

 

[ushikra]

the "sound" is indeed really low if your using MHD, but .... the Drive would produce a massive magnetic field easily detected, shielding is a moot point at this stage as its size would be enormous the current speed of MHD drives are very very slow

You're right about easy detection of magentic field. So, I guess sound doesnt really even matters at this point.

Plus subs/vessels would develop a "Magnetic Attraction" for torpedoes and other ammo.