Type 095

[Akasa]

Huitong has updated his website saying that the first Type 095 is being built at Bohai Shipyard.

 

[Martian2]

I would not be surprised if China is indeed building the next-generation Type 095 nuclear attack submarine. China's naval development would parallel its aviation progress from J-10A to J-10B to J-20 Mighty Dragon. The proliferation of powerful supercomputers and decades of weapons-design experience among its engineers are culminating in weapon systems that approach American performance.

As far as I know, there are only two Type 093 Shang-class nuclear attack submarines. Nuclear submarines are very expensive billion-dollar naval vessels. If the PLA Navy planned for the Type 093 Shang to serve as merely an intermediate design, it would explain the reason that only two Shangs were built.

Also, I want to mention that China's nuclear submarine program is an extension of its conventional submarine program. The reactor may be different, but the acoustic-dampening technology and experience are clearly an extension of the decades-old conventional submarine program.

China's nuclear and conventional attack submarines

The uppermost picture is a conceptual illustration of the hydrodynamic third-generation Type 095 nuclear attack submarine. The bottom two pictures depict the next-generation Type 096 ballistic missile submarine (e.g. the successor to the Type 094 Jin-class SSBN).

Type 093 Shang-class nuclear attack submarine (SSN)

Type 039 Song-class diesel-electric attack submarine

Yuan-class SSKs represent the new generation of PLA Navy conventional attack submarines.

[Note: Huitong's website is located at http://cnair.top81.cn/han_xia_kilo_song.htm]

 

[UKBengali]

I would not be surprised if China is indeed building the next-generation Type 095 nuclear attack submarine. China's naval development would parallel its aviation progress from J-10A to J-10B to J-20 Mighty Dragon. The proliferation of powerful supercomputers and decades of weapons design among its engineers are culminating in weapon systems that approach American performance.

As far as I know, there are only two Type 093 Shang-class nuclear attack submarines. Nuclear submarines are very expensive billion-dollar naval vessels. If the PLA Navy planned for the Type 093 Shang to serve as merely an intermediate design, it would explain the reason that only two Shangs were built.

Also, I want to mention that China's nuclear submarine program is an extension of its conventional submarine program. The reactor may be different, but the acoustic-dampening technology and experience is clearly an extension of the decades-old conventional submarine program.

Which is why I laugh at estimates that the Type-095 SSN will only up to Akula 2 or so performance level.

The latest Chinese Qing class is believed to have performance comparable to the latest Western SSK designs, so why should the Chinese SSNs be so much louder?

Like you say only the nuclear reactor is unique in the SSN, but all ther other technologies are pretty much the same for SSKs.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Which is why I laugh at estimates that the Type-095 SSN will only up to Akula 2 or so performance level.

The latest Chinese Qing class is believed to have performance comparable to the latest Western SSK designs, so why should the Chinese SSNs be so much louder?

Like you say only the nuclear reactor is unique in the SSN, but all ther other technologies are pretty much the same for SSKs.

reactors can't be turned off as easily and they still run while submerged, meaning that engine noise has to be cancelled. SSKs run on electricity and use diesel to charge batteries, so they have zero engine noise.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

The Type 095 will feature 100% electrified propulsion, which is a pretty cool new technology to add up.

PS, there were two Type 095 subs made its sea trial in the January of last year.

 

[Akasa]

The Type 095 will feature 100% electrified propulsion, which is a pretty cool new technology to add up.

PS, there were two Type 095 subs made its sea trial in the January of last year.

Huitong says the 1st Type 095 is still being built

 

[Martian2]

How quiet are Chinese submarines?

Regarding sound-dampening technology, we know China uses very advanced seven-axis machine tools to build their submarine's quiet seven-bladed asymmetric propeller. Also, we can see the anechoic tiles on Chinese submarines that dampen their acoustic signature. We can reasonably assume that China uses powerful supercomputers to design their submarines.

However, you want to know the answer to the big question. How quiet are Chinese submarines compared to American and Russian submarines? That's a highly-classified military secret. I don't think anyone without Top Secret clearance knows the answer to that question.

I will assume you want me to provide you with my best educated guess. Firstly, China built its first Type 033 Romeo-class submarine around 1962. Today, it is 2012. China has 50 years of experience in building submarines.

Secondly, China recently built the world's fastest supercomputer (which was just dethroned by the Japanese). China's ability to conduct fluid dynamics modeling of its submarine designs on supercomputers is equivalent to western nations.

Thirdly, China has advanced CNC (Computer Numerical Control) machine tools to manufacture propeller blades and other parts to very tight tolerances (see citation below).

I think the conclusion is almost inescapable. Chinese submarine design and manufacturing technology are very close to the Americans. American submarines are probably quieter, but not by much.

To build a quiet submarine is a straightforward application of physics and materials science. Chinese scientists excel in physics and materials science.

Now, let's deal with the elephant in the room. To put it mildly, the U.S. Navy has operated many more patrols than the PLA Navy. To become an effective submarine hunter, it requires a lot of expensive real world patrols. The U.S. Navy wins hands down at this point in time.

To use an analogy, I believe a Chinese sniper rifle is almost as good as an American sniper rifle. However, the American sniper has been hunting for sixty years non-stop. The Chinese sniper has only been out in the field for a few years. The greenhorn will get killed out there.

----------

From my April 14, 2011 post:

China's CKX5680 Digitally Controlled 7-axis Contour Milling Machine

中国研成数控七轴五联动机床可加工大舰螺旋桨(&#22270
武重集团863计划项目课题CKX5680数控七轴五联动车铣复合加工机床填补国内空白

9月18日，国家科技部组织高新技术产品专家验收组对武重承担的国家“863计划”项目课题—— CKX56 80数控七轴五联动车铣复合加工机床进行了验收。省科技厅、市科技局的领导参与并指导了此次验收活 动。

大型舰艇螺旋浆用重型七轴五联动车铣复合加工机床是国家高新技术研究发展计划（863计划）项目，该项目主 要由武重集团公司承担，华中科技大学国家数控系统工程技术研究中心和镇江船舶螺旋浆厂参与，产 学研相结合共 同研制完成的。

验收组由北京航空航天大学王田苗教授、北京机床研究所盛伯浩研究员等9名国内知名专家组成。专家组认为，七 轴五联动复合机床样机属国内首创，技术规范，其主机、数控系统、编程技术等具有创新性，完成了项目合同规定 的任务。

The Wuhan Heavy Industry Corp. just made a breakthrough in an 863 Project. This is the CKX5680 Digitally Controlled 7-axis Contour Milling machine. This is significant as it is specialised in building ship propellers, like this one, for aircraft carriers and submarines. They are much more precise than those 5-axis machines.

[Note: Thank you to "pugachev_diver" for the post.]

 

[ao333]

How quiet are Chinese submarines?

Regarding sound-dampening technology, we know China uses very advanced seven-axis machine tools to build their submarine's quiet seven-bladed asymmetric propeller. Also, we can see the anechoic tiles on Chinese submarines that dampen their acoustic signature. We can reasonably assume that China uses powerful supercomputers to design their submarines.

However, you want to know the answer to the big question. How quiet are Chinese submarines compared to American and Russian submarines? That's a highly-classified military secret. I don't think anyone without Top Secret clearance knows the answer to that question.

I will assume you want me to provide you with my best educated guess. Firstly, China built its first Type 033 Romeo-class submarine around 1962. Today, it is 2012. China has 50 years of experience in building submarines.

Secondly, China recently built the world's fastest supercomputer (which was just dethroned by the Japanese). China's ability to conduct fluid dynamics modeling of its submarine designs on supercomputers is equivalent to western nations.

Thirdly, China has advanced CNC (Computer Numerical Control) machine tools to manufacture propeller blades and other parts to very tight tolerances (see citation below).

I think the conclusion is almost inescapable. Chinese submarine design and manufacturing technology are very close to the Americans. American submarines are probably quieter, but not by much.

To build a quiet submarine is a straightforward application of physics and materials science. Chinese scientists excel in physics and materials science.

Now, let's deal with the elephant in the room. To put it mildly, the U.S. Navy has operated many more patrols than the PLA Navy. To become an effective submarine hunter, it requires a lot of expensive real world patrols. The U.S. Navy wins hands down at this point in time.

To use an analogy, I believe a Chinese sniper rifle is almost as good as an American sniper rifle. However, the American sniper has been hunting for sixty years non-stop. The Chinese sniper has only been out in the field for a few years. The greenhorn will get killed out there.

----------

From my April 14, 2011 post:

China's CKX5680 Digitally Controlled 7-axis Contour Milling Machine



The Wuhan Heavy Industry Corp. just made a breakthrough in an 863 Project. This is the CKX5680 Digitally Controlled 7-axis Contour Milling machine. This is significant as it is specialised in building ship propellers, like this one, for aircraft carriers and submarines. They are much more precise than those 5-axis machines.

[Note: Thank you to "pugachev_diver" for the post.]

Lol, if it's an 863 objective, then it's obviously outdated.

 

[SinoChallenger]

Which is why I laugh at estimates that the Type-095 SSN will only up to Akula 2 or so performance level.

The latest Chinese Qing class is believed to have performance comparable to the latest Western SSK designs, so why should the Chinese SSNs be so much louder?

Like you say only the nuclear reactor is unique in the SSN, but all ther other technologies are pretty much the same for SSKs.

IMO, China naturally focuses more on diesel-electrics because they are more effective in the littoral waters of East Asia. Nuclear propulsion submarines are only really needed for long distance nuclear missile patrols and escorting carriers. So, China is relatively further behind in nuclear subs than in diesel-electrics.

That said, Type 095 should be at Akula II level or a little bit better. China is at the same level of progress as Russia is, IMO. Russia is still doing sea trials on the Yasen class.

 

[Speeder 2]

....

The Wuhan Heavy Industry Corp. just made a breakthrough in an 863 Project. This is the CKX5680 Digitally Controlled 7-axis Contour Milling machine. This is significant as it is specialised in building ship propellers, like this one, for aircraft carriers and submarines. They are much more precise than those 5-axis machines.

...

Ah, thank you, martian, for quoting this 863 project!

this Wuhan Heavy Industry Corp... you know what, one of my remote relatives, from one of my Mom's elddest uncle's family, is one of the key tech pundits of the flagship division of Wuhan Heavy Industry Corp. I've never met him in my life, yet I heard that he is quite famous though, directly managing or indrectly consulting with many of the leading projects in that company.

Now since you mentioned this 863 thing, I'm almost 100% certain that he must have been involved in this breakthrough project one way or another.

The juicy part is that this guy definitely shares some DNA with me - we both get some same genes from the grand parents of my Mom.

Ha ha, think about that, my kin, namely some of my genes, is contributing to China's 095 nuclear attack sub! Wonderful!! It makes me very proud!

Oh by the way, talking about coincidence, one of guys from Dad's family trunche, another remote relative of mine, is a leading engineer (got Ph.D in astrophysics at Duke decades ago) of one of Taiwan's main defence companies. I am not surprised that he was somewhat invloved in Taiwan's indigenous fighter programme as well. :

---------- Post added at 01:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:04 AM ----------

India just got lease of Russia's Akula II. Anyone cares to make a brief comparison to China's 095 or 094? Dunno much about subs, I am curious...

 

[UKBengali]

IMO, China naturally focuses more on diesel-electrics because they are more effective in the littoral waters of East Asia. Nuclear propulsion submarines are only really needed for long distance nuclear missile patrols and escorting carriers. So, China is relatively further behind in nuclear subs than in diesel-electrics.

That said, Type 095 should be at Akula II level or a little bit better. China is at the same level of progress as Russia is, IMO. Russia is still doing sea trials on the Yasen class.

Sorry but you contradict youself here.

The Yasen is a whole generation ahead of Akula 2 and most probably won't be very far from Seawolf/Virginia performance.

 

[SinoChallenger]

Sorry but you contradict youself here.

The Yasen is a whole generation ahead of Akula 2 and most probably won't be very far from Seawolf/Virginia performance.

Akula II ~115 db
Sierra II ~110 db
Type 095 ~105 db
Yasen ???
Seawolf / Virginia ~95 db

 

[Akasa]

Akula II ~115 db
Sierra II ~110 db
Type 095 ~105 db
Yasen ???
Seawolf / Virginia ~95 db

How do you know the sound of the 095?

 

[Akasa]

I heard that the current Type 094 submarines are actually the Type 092G, while the Type 094 submarines have not been seen yet and has 16 SLBMs.

Has anyone have any information on this?

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I heard that the current Type 094 submarines are actually the Type 092G, while the Type 094 submarines have not been seen yet and has 16 SLBMs.

Has anyone have any information on this?

Maybe wait until the Type 096 becomes operational.