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Two Russian soldiers killed in Chechnya

The current Russian government has a weak policy regarding Chechenya. I believe Chechenya belongs to Russia and what is very obvious to me is that Russia isn't going to give up on Chechenya because that region has oil but I believe Russia is desperate in dealing with the situation in Chechenya. History has proved that you can't settle riots in a region by getting more aggressive. Holodomor and all other aggressive methods of the Soviet Union to suppress the Ukrainian nationalists failed and finally Ukraine got separated. The best way to deal with the situation is to settle the issue peacefully. if it fails (I believe it won't fail because everyone knows that Russia has a mighty army that can deal with the rioters if necessary), then the Russian intelligence agency should find the backers of those terrorists and try to deal with the terrorists indirectly instead of direct military clashes.
 
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lots of countries managed to break up from russia after soviet unions collapse, but russia wont let chechnya go because it has alot of resources.

All the states you're talking about are not "break up" states. They were granted independence by the central committee because the USSR was not able to sustain itself. And for your information, out of the 15 independent nations, 5 of them fought tooth and nail to stay with the Soviet Union as a part of Russia which are: Kazakhstan, Belarus, Kyrgyzstan, the then-Ukraine and then-Uzbekistan wanted to remain as a part of the Union.

About resources I told you; Chechnya is a tiny state in Russia. 75% of unexplored wealth of Russia is in East Siberia which is Asian part of Russia. That alone is more landmass than 50 Chechnyas put together. Chechnya is an integral part of Russia for centuries and a few madcap separatists have no right to cause jihadi separatism just for the greed for power for themselves.

there must be a reason why chechens want s seperate state and that is because they are not treated equally.

This is what the gullible and emotional Muslim population is made to think by separatists. Many Union ministers at national level are Chechens. Post the crushing of Dokka's Jihad by Russian forces, Chechnya was progressing peacefully under Kadyrov's father. But the separatist jihadi loonies couldn't digest a prospering Chechnya and the fact that their religious mumbo-jumbo failed against state unity and progress. So they killed him. This in turn gave more popularity to Ramzan Kadyrov (the killed Kadyrov's son and current minister), who struck back at the militants with a vengeance. With the total annihilation of Jihad against Russian government that too during its weakest time in history, embittered the surviving loonies. So they started using any possible dirty media tactics to blacken the Russian government for their "cause".

Separatism is simply not going to be tolerated with whatever excuse: religious or not. It is an anti-national behavior and simply will be put down. There is nothing you or anyone can do about it.

nevertheless, the best thing chechens can do is move to other muslim countries if they wanted to be treated fair. Like turkey for example, which used to rule over places such as Chechnya today during ottoman era. i am sure they have a history together.

Chechens are not persecuted. This is what the separatist jihadis want to show and do so because their own loyalists are getting booted by the army daily. SO they take biased videos and photos to incite people like you. Many Chechens were flourishing before the killing of Kadyrov's father because he was bringing the state back to normalcy. At that time, Saudi Arabia found its behind burning as their religion-induced separatism failed. So they decided to take the man out.

BTW why don't you suggest the same for all those you feel persecuted and see? NO ONE wants to move out. Simply because they have much better life than the sharia dream they are shown.

Now coming to the bolded part, this is what I call ignorance. Most Pakistanis don't even know about the history of Chechnya and yet keep shouting and howling in terms of religious sentiments. There are a few members of Russia here. Ask them what the origin of their country's state is. It is important to gain knowledge and then argue rather than emotional howling.

why do you indians all ways go off topic and bring in other countries you dont get along with? what has china to do with this?

China has the same problem we have or Russia has in terms of jihadi separatism. Just because most of you appease them and call it US-led job doesn't change the fact that it is also a form of Jihadi separatism.

I am sure you feel bad when others talk about separatism in your country. Same is felt by other countries when you support the separatism. Be to others what you want them to be for you.
 
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The current Russian government has a weak policy regarding Chechenya. I believe Chechenya belongs to Russia and what is very obvious to me is that Russia isn't going to give up on Chechenya because that region has oil but I believe Russia is desperate in dealing with the situation in Chechenya. History has proved that you can't settle riots in a region by getting more aggressive. Holodomor and all other aggressive methods of the Soviet Union to suppress the Ukrainian nationalists failed and finally Ukraine got separated. The best way to deal with the situation is to settle the issue peacefully. if it fails (I believe it won't fail because everyone knows that Russia has a mighty army that can deal with the rioters if necessary), then the Russian intelligence agency should find the backers of those terrorists and try to deal with the terrorists indirectly instead of direct military clashes.

Ukrainian nationalists were opposed to the party in power then who wanted to be a part of USSR and was forced to move away, thus weakening the rulers then and strengthening the then opposition. Force failed because Russia was at its weakest at that time. Economy plummeted, no money in treasuries, mafia unleashed on street, nuclear weapons in danger, thousand and thousands lost jobs came on streets, economic and financial chaos etc.

Today Russia is at it helm with a powerful and rising economy, small and manageable population, humungous resources and a strong leadership. Add Putin to that and you can as much say bye bye to Jihad forever. Russia using force today and what it used then has a lot of difference. Today it has the money and muscle to totally wipe these separatists out forever.
 
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Ukrainian nationalists were opposed to the party in power then who wanted to be a part of USSR and was forced to move away, thus weakening the rulers then and strengthening the then opposition. Force failed because Russia was at its weakest at that time. Economy plummeted, no money in treasuries, mafia unleashed on street, nuclear weapons in danger, thousand and thousands lost jobs came on streets, economic and financial chaos etc.

Today Russia is at it helm with a powerful and rising economy, small and manageable population, humungous resources and a strong leadership. Add Putin to that and you can as much say bye bye to Jihad forever. Russia using force today and what it used then has a lot of difference. Today it has the money and muscle to totally wipe these separatists out forever.

Unlike you, I believe the Soviet Union, even at its minimum of power and might, was as strong as Today's Russia if not stronger. Russia's influence at that time included Africa, Eastern Europe and Central Europe, East Asia and South Asia and Cuba and a great part of US backyard, Latin America, but Today this influence is much more limited. Also, I believe that scientifically and militarily, the soviet union was stronger than today's Russia. About Ukraine, you can talk to Ukrainians and read some history about the independence of Ukraine.
There is also a difference that you should acknowledge. Jihadists are fully-heartedly devoted to their ideology. that makes them formidable because when a person has no fear of death, you should expect any stupid move from him.

I disagree that today Russia is becoming more powerful. I'm a pro-Russia person but today's Russia has many problems. I've been to Russia and I have Russian friends and almost all of them say that the economy is bad except in Moscow. The construction sector only in Moscow and to much lesser extents Saint Petersburg is doing fine, Other Russian cities are getting older and older and most Russians expect no improvement in quality of their lives in the future and are hopeless about their future in Russia and that's why a lot of Russians are leaving the country every year. Russia is a country with talented people, a lot of Russians bag medals at scientific olympiads, I don't doubt that they got talented people, but their scientific prowess is not comparable to countries like USA,UK,Germany,France,Japan and recently China at all. They are now so much behind their rivals which is one of the main reasons why I think Russia is not more powerful than the soviet union.

Russia needs to settle the issue peacefully and also through intel. ops. Using their military force will just worsen the situation.
 
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What about terrorism done by Russia it has killed 35000 thousand Chechen s and they are fighting for freedom as was you Bhagat Singh why he was not a terrorist

Are you out of your mind for comparing a bunch of deranged terrorists to Bhagat Singh? Seriously dude, years of supporting militancy in so many places has got you confused. Let's put this into perspective:

- British were not us. Bhagat Singh was us. British were taking our wealth WITHOUT being a part of us, without being our race, without being our culture etc. Bhagat Singh fought for our country who are sitting miles away from UK and have no cultural or racial or any other affiliation.

- Chechnya has been Russian territory for centuries. They speak the same language aka Russian except for Chechn which is a regional language spoken in smaller sub-regions. The territory has been Russian since long enough for this terrorism not to exist. Chechnya wants to conduct separatism in the name of separate Islamic emirate. That is simply not acceptable.

What Russia did was pretty reasonable considering that this is what separatism deserves. There were rogue incidents where innocents were killed for no reason and for that, I will condemn. No doubt. But such things happen in all wars.
 
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Unlike you, I believe the Soviet Union, even at its minimum of power and might, was as strong as Today's Russia if not stronger.

Today's Russia is stronger with the view of the future my friend. Soviet economy was never even close to what Russian economy is today. The scope is much higher. It is just that the damage during 90s was too great and will take some more time to recover.

Russia's influence at that time included Africa, Eastern Europe and Central Europe, East Asia and South Asia and Cuba and a great part of US backyard, Latin America, but Today this influence is much more limited. Also, I believe that scientifically and militarily, the soviet union was stronger than today's Russia. About Ukraine, you can talk to Ukrainians and read some history about the independence of Ukraine.

My colleague is a staunch Ukrainian and thanks to him, I know a resonably enough about their history. I will not deny that Russia has good influence in these regions.

There is also a difference that you should acknowledge. Jihadists are fully-heartedly devoted to their ideology. that makes them formidable because when a person has no fear of death, you should expect any stupid move from him.

Which is why Russian forces kept bombing them until they either surrender or go extinct. A befitting technique for those who claim no fear of death since it is what they want.

I disagree that today Russia is becoming more powerful. I'm a pro-Russia person but today's Russia has many problems. I've been to Russia and I have Russian friends and almost all of them say that the economy is bad except in Moscow. The construction sector only in Moscow and to much lesser extents Saint Petersburg is doing fine, Other Russian cities are getting older and older and most Russians expect no improvement in quality of their lives in the future and are hopeless about their future in Russia and that's why a lot of Russians are leaving the country every year. Russia is a country with talented people, a lot of Russians bag medals at scientific olympiads, I don't doubt that they got talented people, but their scientific prowess is not comparable to countries like USA,UK,Germany,France,Japan and recently China at all. They are now so much behind their rivals which is one of the main reasons why I think Russia is not more powerful than the soviet union.

I never said that Russia is stronger right now than USSR but if it is apt at removing the social rot that took birth in 90s, it can emerge to be equally powerful if not more. The only problem is that they have a dying population. With their averse attitude towards marriage as a form of "free money", they are losing generations behind and that is what is killing their country slowly. That has to be seen otherwise Russians have a grim future.

Russia needs to settle the issue peacefully and also through intel. ops. Using their military force will just worsen the situation.

It is very difficult to negotiate with jihadis. Besides, if they are not afraid of death and keep it in their hands all the time as they claim, Russians have enough bombs to send them to extinction. Separatism that too such brutal ones have to be inhumanly punished.
 
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Today's Russia is stronger with the view of the future my friend. Soviet economy was never even close to what Russian economy is today. The scope is much higher. It is just that the damage during 90s was too great and will take some more time to recover.
The only reason that can justify that is Today's Russia is more open to the world. I see no other reason why today's Russia has a better scope. Their population is aging, they have many social problems, the people are leaving Russia for immigration to just anywhere else, even third-world countries, their scientific prowess is declining and many other problems.


My colleague is a staunch Ukrainian and thanks to him, I know a resonably enough about their history. I will not deny that Russia has good influence in these regions.
well, then I think you need to ask him more about history of Ukraine my friend.


Which is why Russian forces kept bombing them until they either surrender or go extinct. A befitting technique for those who claim no fear of death since it is what they want.
Russia can't kill all people in Chechenya. Russia doesn't want to be another Libya in the eyes of the world's population. Killing all the Jihadists is only doable on paper, but it's totally impossible to be done in reality.

It is very difficult to negotiate with jihadis. Besides, if they are not afraid of death and keep it in their hands all the time as they claim, Russians have enough bombs to send them to extinction. Separatism that too such brutal ones have to be inhumanly punished.
I don't think that it is very difficult to negotiate with Jihadis. When you cut their financial support and try to weaken them by negotiating with their supporters, then they'll sit on the negotiation table. If you kill those Jihadists, you may unintentionally make them heros.
I don't agree with you that separatism like Chechenya must be dealt with inhumanly, that wouldn't settle the issue.
 
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The only reason that can justify that is Today's Russia is more open to the world. I see no other reason why today's Russia has a better scope. Their population is aging, they have many social problems, the people are leaving Russia for immigration to just anywhere else, even third-world countries, their scientific prowess is declining and many other problems.


That's because of social imbalance and a negligent Russian outlook towards society. Their hatred for self is rather appalling and causing their society to collapse. However, militarily they still pack a relative punch.


well, then I think you need to ask him more about history of Ukraine my friend.

Maybe I will. :).



Russia can't kill all people in Chechenya. Russia doesn't want to be another Libya in the eyes of the world's population. Killing all the Jihadists is only doable on paper, but it's totally impossible to be done in reality.

Entire Chechens don't hate Russia. It is just the loony separatists. There are many honest Chechens who want to just be fine with rest of Russia and continue their normal quiet lives. Only these jihadi lunatics want to separate the state. See the method is very clever:

- first attack the national power, irritate the central politicians and call for military trouble.
- second, blend into the common Chechens so that the Russian military is confused and fires randomly in frustration.
- third, continue hiding behind people and using them as cheap human shields, while using media to spread lies and propaganda.
- fourth, make it look like Russia is evil and attempt at gaining a separate state.

This is a common tactics to these terrorists globally and I can name you similar organizations in many non-Islamic countries doing the same old boring technique. As for Libya or not, when US was at its strongest in mid 90s and Russia at its weakest, the West collectively couldn't do jack to Russia, let alone now when NATO and US are in deep military and economy stagnation while others are emerging.

I assure you that barely any countries like UK or France would be interested in militarily supporting a bunch of deranged jihadis for seceding from a country that has the world's largest and most destructive stockpile of both conventional and nuclear weapons. NATO today barring USA and UK is nothing but the same kid with shinier looks. Rest of NATO is nothing but cannon fodder other than USA and UK. France is neutral and independent. Germany has stopped having anything to do with war in the last 6 decades same as Italy. The rest of Europe is negligible.


I don't think that it is very difficult to negotiate with Jihadis. When you cut their financial support and try to weaken them by negotiating with their supporters, then they'll sit on the negotiation table. If you kill those Jihadists, you may unintentionally make them heros.

This is what is usually applicable for smaller countries that have to fear a political support from a bigger country for these separatists but not for countries like Russia, who won't have too many countries daring to go against them. In short, they don't care about villains or heros. If required, they have enough arsenal stockpiled from years to go not just after jihadis but their funding backers. Say if FSB was to get the Saudi elite religious council assassinated (salafi connections of chechn jihadis to Saudi), just that one action at this time, would consume Saudi with internal rebellion and become hell enough for the entire region which will only weaken jihadis. And if it comes to that level, FSB is capable of getting it done.


I don't agree with you that separatism like Chechenya must be dealt with inhumanly, that wouldn't settle the issue.

I respect your opinion. But having seen terrorism similar to that with false propaganda in my country, I can say this with confidence. Out of my numerous cousin brothers serving, some have seen direct combat and killed numerous terrorists ruthlessly and that has worked well gradually and slowly.

Of course no one single technique is perfect to achieve the result. This has to be accompanied by media invasion by the ensuing country as well as economic development for people of that region so that people don't join the terrorists and work towards peace with nation and economic gains for their region. This is what is happening here in my country.

It is always a combination of factors that come into play to make anything a success. :)
 
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Russia did despicable and inhumane things in Chechnya that forced the population to resort to terrorism as a way to defend their selves.(Note: I am in noway defending terrorism but as a scientists I look at it from a Psychological view point mostly)

Second Chechen War crimes and terrorism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Russian units committed genocides against Chechnyan Civilians by the thousands.

You should learn the difference between lets say Saudi Arabia sending tanks to another country to massacre civilians and Russian units sent to Chechnya in the fist place to suppress armed terrorist groups commiting crimes in Chechnya itself and neighboring regions.
 
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This jihad is taking so many innocent lives all over the world....have to end this wahabi's soon

islam has nothing to do with radicalization , but those who try to spread hatred & radicalization must be dealt with an iron fist be it a muslim group or imam or for that matter the RSS of that little punk called Mohan Bhagwat
first flush "$HITS" like BJP,RSS,bajrang dal,ram sena,,shiv sena down the "Toilet". & then talk about Islam & Muslims.
 
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