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Two Opposing Terms: Islamic and Republic

first learn what democracy is otherwise stop showing your face around here because even i feel embarrassed for you.

No need to feel embarrassed for me dear .. Worry about yourself ......
Everything I posted , I gave "references" , Every one can see .......

you really want me to quote everything you said or will just admit it? i got all the time in the world.

You can utilize all that time in reading a few things instead of trolling dear !!! So you dont end up looking like a fool ,as you do now ........



Why are you changing the actual words?

I did not change a single word on my own

You have to stand guard over the development and maintenance of democracy, social justice and the equality of manhood in your own native soil. With faith, discipline and selfless devotion to duty, there is nothing worthwhile that you cannot achieve. (Address to the officers and men of the 5th Heavy Ack Ack and 6th Light Ack Ack Regiments in Malir, Karachi February 21, 1948.)

Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah Quotes | NADEEM MALIK ندیم ملک

Muhammad Ali Jinnah - Wikiquote


I have nothing to do with this pseudo-religious approach that Gandhi is advocating. (Jinnah speaking to Durga Das in London.)


The great majority of us are Muslims. We follow the teachings of the Prophet Mohammed (may peace be upon him). We are members of the brotherhood of Islam in which all are equal in rights, dignity and self-respect. Consequently, we have a special and a very deep sense of unity. But make no mistake: Pakistan is not a theocracy or anything like it. (Broadcast talk to the people of Australia recorded on 19th February, 1948.)
 
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No need to feel embarrassed for me dear .. Worry about yourself ......
Everything I posted , I gave "references" , Every one can see .......



You can utilize all that time in reading a few things instead of trolling dear !!! So you dont end up looking like a fool ,as you do now ........



I did not change a single word on my own

You have to stand guard over the development and maintenance of democracy, social justice and the equality of manhood in your own native soil. With faith, discipline and selfless devotion to duty, there is nothing worthwhile that you cannot achieve. (Address to the officers and men of the 5th Heavy Ack Ack and 6th Light Ack Ack Regiments in Malir, Karachi February 21, 1948.)

Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah Quotes | NADEEM MALIK ندیم ملک

Muhammad Ali Jinnah - Wikiquote

I have it in printed form right next to me, what is on Nadeen Malik's website is false.
That was indeed an address to Anti Aircraft regiments in Malir, 2 February, 1948.

Fukin, conspiracy is going against Pakistan's society.
 
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I have it in printed form right next to me, what is on Nadeen Malik's website is false.
That was indeed an address to Anti Aircraft regiments in Malir, 2 February, 1948.
Fukin, conspiracy is going against Pakistan's society.

Its on a lot of other sites too , and is available in print form also .....
What you have quoted also exists but that is usually quoted without proper reference ...

One thing is clear , Conservatives have always tried to prove that Jinnah wanted a Islamic "Theocratic Democracy" ... But a little research shows that it is not true
And the conspiracy you are talking about is "Mullahs` Conspiracy" most probably
 
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Its on lot of sites other than Nadeem Malik`s , and also in print form .....
What you have quoted also exists but that is usually quoted without proper reference ...

One thing is clear , Conservatives have always tried to prove that Jinnah wanted a Islamic "Theocratic Democracy" ... But a little research shows that it is not true
And the conspiracy you are talking about , is "Mullahs` Conspiracy" most probably

What i wrote is correct, what you wrote is false.
During Zardari era every thing has been re-written on internet, to push the atheist and secular image of Quaid.
The book i have is very authentic and old.

Here i found it on internet:
Document No 01482102
 
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What i wrote is correct, what you wrote is false.
During Zardari era every thing has been re-written on internet, to push the atheist and secular image of Quaid.
The book i have is very authentic and old.

Here i found it on internet:
Document No 01482102

Why would Zardari do that ??
dont spread a "conspiracy theory" please
Conservatives did that long time ago , they pushed the "Islamist" image of Jinnah and removed many things from official archives that could clearly prove the "secular" vision of Quaid ... the "official archives" are mostly "tempered" speeches and quotes of Jinnah ..

And you have quoted an ordinary website only ... How does that make you "right" and all others wrong ??

Any Primary sources ?
You should get it removed from "Wikiquotes" first ..
Muhammad Ali Jinnah - Wikiquote
 
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Why would Zardari do that ??
dont spread a "conspiracy theory" please

And you have quoted an ordinary website only ... How does that make you "right" and all others wrong ??

Any Primary sources ?
You should get it removed from "Wikiquotes" first ..
Muhammad Ali Jinnah - Wikiquote
what is the very first quote on wikiquote?



The constitution of Pakistan has yet to be framed by the Pakistan Constituent Assembly. I do not know what the ultimate shape of this constitution is going to be, but I am sure that it will be of a democratic type, embodying the essential principle of Islam. Today, they are as applicable in actual life as they were 1,300 years ago. Islam and its idealism have taught us democracy. It has taught equality of man, justice and fairplay to everybody. We are the inheritors of these glorious traditions and are fully alive to our responsibilities and obligations as framers of the future constitution of Pakistan. In any case Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic State to be ruled by priests with a divine mission. We have many non-Muslims — Hindus, Christians, and Parsis — but they are all Pakistanis. They will enjoy the same rights and privileges as any other citizens and will play their rightful part in the affairs of Pakistan.


so jinnh supposedly said that.
 
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What i wrote is correct, what you wrote is false.
During Zardari era every thing has been re-written on internet, to push the atheist and secular image of Quaid.
The book i have is very authentic and old.

Here i found it on internet:
Document No 01482102

Then why your Quaid e Azam (not mine) appointed a Mirzai/Qadyani as the 1st foreign minister of Pakistan? Why did he took oath of allegiance to George the fifth and his heirs? Why did he appointed a Hindu as the first speaker of the Constituent Assembly and subsequently also appointing him as the first law minister of Pakistan?
Would any true Muslim ever do that?
 
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Then why your Quaid e Azam (not mine) appointed a Mirzai/Qadyani as the 1st foreign minister of Pakistan? Why did he took oath of allegiance to George the fifth and his heirs? Why did he appointed a Hindu as the first speaker of the Constituent Assembly and subsequently also appointing him as the first law minister of Pakistan?
Would any true Muslim ever do that?
so if he didn't appoint them then he would be a true muslim?
 
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so if he didn't appoint them then he would be a true muslim?

My dear all I am asking is that how a person who claims to be struggling for the establishment of an Islamic state can appoint a Qadiani as the first foreign minister of that state and then appoint a Hindu as its 1st law minister who will ensure the Islamic state's adherence to Quranic law? I think this is either too funny or true tragic to be true.

Sadly the Jinnah fans and apologists have no answers to these bitter truths which will keep haunting them all their lives.
 
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so jinnh supposedly said that.

And try to understand what Quaid has said in the same speech:

We have many non-Muslims — Hindus, Christians, and Parsis — but they are all Pakistanis. They will enjoy the same rights and privileges as any other citizens and will play their rightful part in the affairs of Pakistan




You are only voicing my sentiments and the sentiments of millions of Mussalmans when you say that Pakistan should be based on sure foundations of social justice and Islamic socialism, which, emphasis's equality and brotherhood of man.

(Speech at the public reception, Chittegong, March 26, 1948, The Pakistan
Times, March 28, 1948.)



I wish on this auspicious day a very happy Eid to all Muslims wherever they may be throughout the world --an Eid that will usher in,
I hope, a new era of prosperity and will mark the onward march of renaissance of Islamic culture and ideals
(Eid Message to the Nation, Karachi; August 18, 1947, The Dawn, August 19, 1947)
 
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My dear all I am asking is that how a person who claims to be struggling for the establishment of an Islamic state can appoint a Qadiani as the first foreign minister of that state and then appoint a Hindu as its 1st law minister who will ensure the Islamic state's adherence to Quranic law? I think this is either too funny or true tragic to be true.

Sadly the Jinnah fans and apologists have no answers to these bitter truths which will keep haunting them all their lives.

Get your definition right about Islamic state, i think you do not even know the meaning of the word Islam.

1185416_582269798511676_1485582283_n.jpg
 
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Ok so appointing Qadianis as Foreign Ministers in a so-called 'Islamic' state is according to Islam and my friend kindly answer my questions that I have posed or do you also have no answer to my questions and will try to run away just like most Jinnah fans do when they get caught?

Get your definition right about Islamic state, i think you do not even know the meaning of the word Islam.

1185416_582269798511676_1485582283_n.jpg
 
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And try to understand what Quaid has said in the same speech:

We have many non-Muslims — Hindus, Christians, and Parsis — but they are all Pakistanis. They will enjoy the same rights and privileges as any other citizens and will play their rightful part in the affairs of Pakistan


You are only voicing my sentiments and the sentiments of millions of Mussalmans when you say that Pakistan should be based on sure foundations of social justice and Islamic socialism, which, emphasis's equality and brotherhood of man.

(Speech at the public reception, Chittegong, March 26, 1948, The Pakistan
Times, March 28, 1948.)



I wish on this auspicious day a very happy Eid to all Muslims wherever they may be throughout the world --an Eid that will usher in, I hope, a new era of prosperity and will mark the onward march of renaissance of Islamic culture and ideals

(Eid Message to the Nation, Karachi; August 18, 1947, The Dawn, August 19, 1947)

so basically what you just quoted destroyed your entire argument lol
 
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so basically what you just quoted destroyed your entire argument lol

No , you failed to understand ... :)

This may help :

Jinnah was for secular Pakistan and he all his political life struggled for secularism. He was against involvement of religion in politics and this was the reasons that all the religious parties were against him. However, the Communist Party of India (CPI) supported Quaid-e-Azam for secular Muslim State of Pakistan on two nation theory. Communist Party of Pakistan (CPP) still vows for secular and democratic socialist Pakistan, which was the real dream of Quaid-e-Azam says the CPP Chairman, Engineer Jameel Ahmad Malik in a message on Happy Birthday of Quaid-e-Azam
 
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My dear all I am asking is that how a person who claims to be struggling for the establishment of an Islamic state can appoint a Qadiani as the first foreign minister of that state and then appoint a Hindu as its 1st law minister who will ensure the Islamic state's adherence to Quranic law? I think this is either too funny or true tragic to be true.

Sadly the Jinnah fans and apologists have no answers to these bitter truths which will keep haunting them all their lives.

No one is being apologist but you, what you pointed proves nothing otherwise, while we have Pakistan movement in front of our eyes.
It is you few falling from the sky and writing new history from behind the curtains.

Quaid cannot tell every thing, how you shall live, but what ever he stated or did was in conformity of Islamic system and in connection with state operations.
Quaid, forbade of discrimination and state involvement in religion, but freedom of religion within the bounds of mosques, mandir and church. Which shall not be confused with chanting bhajans in street. or wearing sectarian signs, while being at state duty.
In the same speech, he demanded to tackle black marketing, corruption and bribery with iron hand (and yet we had Mr.10% as President) while, in Quran black marketing, corruption and bribery is declared haram at many occasions.
Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) was titled as Sadiq and Amin by his enemies.
Jinnah termed nepotism and jobbery (same as robbery) as great evil and yet we have fake degree holder as President. Administering oath to Cheap justice but no pointing to that.

What ever Quaid practically did or said, only confirm Islamic values and beliefs. but as long you agree to implement what ever Quaid demanded from us, in his words and actions. if you like, you can name it what ever.
But you cannot legalize corruption, nepotism, injustice, homosexuality etc and sell it as secular and re-define ideology of Pakistan by tempering the words of Quaid and putting it in new text books.
What about the Pakistan studies we passed and our parents passed?

w/r to the personalities you mentioned, we cannot tell how much a person was related to which religion but Pakistan was made in the name of Islam and Muslim league was the name of the party, which was the key.
Today's free media also tells us that Musharaf and Kiyani were Ahmadi, but no one talk about the majority atheist under the cover of secular.
Problem of today's Pakistan is that atheist a.k.a seculars think that every Muslim is as idiot as the people of rural areas, interior sindh, south punjab and larger Baluchistan!
No Sir, actually topics like this force us to study about Islam and buy books and translations to discover our selves and this world.

FYI, Quran is not a sort of law, it mainly is a system of life?

May be we shall ask all the secular cum atheists, why only today they are jumping up and down and not in yesteryears and why in secular cum hindu india Muslims are forced to live with hindu names and cannot celebrate eid ul adha, as we do in Pakistan!
 
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