Two Nation Theory

[Awesome]

Pakistanis bashing India for secularism.....Ironic....

The problem is the screwed up notion of secularism that is perpetuated in India. Somehow being nice to Muslims is considered secularism.

This is big brother attitude, not secularism. This allows Hindus to GRANT freedoms to Muslims as if they were not their RIGHT to begin with.

 

[toxic_pus]

Sir you are wrong, If the situation was reverse, would Indians be arguing in same manner, I think not. Regilion and Culture makes a lot of difference, I believe in Secularism also, but it has it's limitations and I believe AGNO explained it really well here....

Sir, with no disrespect, if pigs had wings would they soar like eagle or flutter like humming bird?

 

[blueoval79]

The problem is the screwed up notion of secularism that is perpetuated in India. Somehow being nice to Muslims is considered secularism.

This is big brother attitude, not secularism. This allows Hindus to GRANT freedoms to Muslims as if they were not their RIGHT to begin with.

Ok... then go ahead and you explain to us what do you mean by secularism.....Lets hear it from you guys...what should we Indians understand of secularism....

 

[Awesome]

Ok... then go ahead and you explain to us what do you mean by secularism.....Lets hear it from you guys...what should we Indians understand of secularism....

One of my good online Frenemy, Srirangan, quite active on many forums, once told me "I'm a nice secular fella, I'm always kind to Muslims", and I'm like gosh thats so wrong on so many levels. That is the problem with Indian Secularism. It is Shahrukh Khan secularism, not Separation of state and religion.

 

[toxic_pus]

The problem is the screwed up notion of secularism that is perpetuated in India. Somehow being nice to Muslims is considered secularism.

This is big brother attitude, not secularism. This allows Hindus to GRANT freedoms to Muslims as if they were not their RIGHT to begin with.

In other words it is you, who has a screwed up idea about secularism in general and Indian secularism in particular. Why am I not surprised.

 

[blueoval79]

One of my good online Frenemy, Srirangan, quite active on many forums, once told me "I'm a nice secular fella, I'm always kind to Muslims", and I'm like gosh thats so wrong on so many levels. That is the problem with Indian Secularism. It is Shahrukh Khan secularism, not Separation of state and religion.

Again....no beating around the bush......

Tell us how do you as a Pakistani wants Indians to understand secularism.....

 

[toxic_pus]

It is Shahrukh Khan secularism, not Separation of state and religion.

Can you cite from Indian constitution, or any Indian law, that supports your allegation.

 

[Awesome]

In other words it is you, who has a screwed up idea about secularism in general and Indian secularism in particular. Why am I not surprised.

I didn't even had to say it, an Indian came forward and said "I'm secular, I respect Muslims". You don't HAVE to respect Muslims to be Secular. It makes no sense.

I think it all made no sense to Jinnah too, hence he pushed for autonomy between the two nations - Indian Hindutva brigade and the rest of India.

 

[blueoval79]

I didn't even had to say it, an Indian came forward and said "I'm secular, I respect Muslims". You don't HAVE to respect Muslims to be Secular. It makes no sense.

I think it all made no sense to Jinnah too, hence he pushed for autonomy between the two nations - Indian Hindutva brigade and the rest of India.

Ok then what are your parameters and benchmarks as a Pakistani that we Indians need to meet to be called secular country in Pakistani minds.

 

[Awesome]

Can you cite from Indian constitution, or any Indian law, that supports your allegation.

You subjugate your own laws as I've cited from incidents that culminated at Gujarat.

Your Hindu laws, heck you even have Muslim laws. Its all wrong.

---------- Post added at 09:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:13 AM ----------

Ok then what are your parameters and benchmarks as a Pakistani that we Indians need to meet to be called secular country in Pakistani minds.

Separation of state and religion. Your state can't support or subjugate one religion over the other.

You must follow Jinnah to be truly secular. Not Gandhi - a theocratic leader.

 

[blueoval79]

You subjugate your own laws as I've cited from incidents that culminated at Gujarat.

Your Hindu laws, heck you even have Muslim laws. Its all wrong.

Its because Muslims not agreeing to be governed by a single India marriage act that there was a need for a Hindu marriage law and Muslim Marriage law.....

Don't blame Indian Government ....blame Mullah brigade for that...

Separation of state and religion. Your state can't support or subjugate one religion over the other.

Because of so called Mullah brigade the is a need for separate laws for Muslims and rest of India.... as every time there is a law passed these so called Muslim scholars start jumping ...this is against Sentiments of Muslims...

 

[Neither Right Nor Wrong]

This is the thing, Indians need to pick up a dictionary. Respect and having multicultural friends has nothing to do with secularism. This is the typical Indian excuse, Oh we're so secular look at Shahrukh Khan, Salman Khan, Amir Khan.

Secularism is separation of state and religion.

Your state is siding with Hindus with the destruction of the Babri Masjid

Your state perpetuated the massacre of 2000 Muslims in Gujarat to avenge the deaths of 50 Hindus

For believes in 'ahimsa' you sure massacre a lot of people now and then.

Secularism is separation of state and religion. If you're not even able to prosecute genocidal maniacs due to religious considerations, you're not a secularism. You're a big black mark on secularism for that matter.

Pls do not judge Indians, for consequences politically motivated acts.

Ok lets assume Hindus, Sikhs , Christans etc of India were evil and it was not possible for Muslims to stay with them and required a separate homeland.
So Pakistan was created.

Pakistan,being a far more homogeneous state has very few minorities has serious fault line running through it.

Even amongst muslims , you have found so many ways to discriminate amongst each other.

You have-

Shia-Sunni conflict
Sunni-Ahmadi conflict
West pakistani -East Pakistani conflict
Taliban's Takfiri ideology .

This goes out to show that failure to co-exist inside united India,was not all because of evil Hindus or other communities in India, but a state of mind which continues till date.

 

[toxic_pus]

India was divided on ethnic and geographic grounds, as well as religious, so differences beyond religion existed as well. Religion forms part of the identity matrix of people, just as race, ethnicity and geography do. You cannot arbitrarily dismiss one strong aspect of a peoples identity (religion) and claim that that particular community should be able to co-exist with Y community, and insist that another community, that is distinct on the basis of racial (and religious) identity is somehow completely incompatible.

At the end of the day our identities and how we see ourselves as distinct (be it race, religion, ethnicity, geography or a combination of these and other factors that form our identity matrix) is up to us, and not for an outsider to determine whether or not we are compatible or incompatible with Y community.

The argument is not if communities, however you define them, are homogeneous. The argument, particularly in case of TNT, is if Hindus and Muslims are so heterogeneous that they can't cohabit if the former is in majority. Or, in a more generic sense, if the disparate communities can coexist without the majority impinging the minority's' rights.

 

[Awesome]

Its because Muslims not agreeing to be governed by a single India marriage act that there was a need for a Hindu marriage law and Muslim Marriage law.....

Don't blame Indian Government ....blame Mullah brigade for that...


Because of so called Mullah brigade the is a need for separate laws for Muslims and rest of India.....

Nobody said getting secularism is easy. Look at Pakistan, the leader talked about secularism till the very end, the next generation effed it all up.

The reason that Indian government appeases Mullahs is so that they don't have to act upon the blatant acts of violation of secularism. The state of Gujarat was killing Muslims in vengeance - 'Secular' India did nothing but re-elect Modi.

 

[toxic_pus]

I didn't even had to say it, an Indian came forward and said "I'm secular, I respect Muslims". You don't HAVE to respect Muslims to be Secular. It makes no sense.

Just because you don't HAVE to it doesn't imply you CAN'T.