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Two drone options on the table

HAIDER

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The US has offered two options to Pakistan in response to its request for unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) – or drones – to help it fight extremists in the north, but both are good for surveillance only, a top Pentagon official indicated on Friday.

US Undersecretary of Defence for Policy Michele Flournoy said here that the option of giving Pakistan UAVs was discussed in the Defence Consultative Group meeting held on August 5 and 6 in Rawalpindi.

“Pakistan has requested UAVs and intelligence equipment and we have offered them (Pakistan) two different systems. The Pakistan military would review our offer and respond in the coming few weeks,” she said. Flournoy added that the tactical UAV system would provide support for surveillance in the federally administered tribal areas.

She said one of these systems was Shadow 200. The Shadow, a tactical UAV system, is designed as a ground manoeuvre commander’s primary day/night reconnaissance, surveillance, target acquisition, and battle damage assessment system.

The second option is ScanEagle, which carries a payload of 6 kilogrammes, and cruises at an altitude of 5,000 metres.

“What the US offers is very basic technology and does not have the capability to carry weapons and is useless for offensive purposes,” said Sajjad Haider, a former Air Commodore.

He said that the Shadow drone can only work in conjunction with the F-16 fighter plane. The drone can highlight the target, which then could be hit by the F-16. He said Pakistan does not have ground intelligence to operate any drone and it would again be dependent on the US.

Sajjad said the US would never give the superior technology which it has been using in Afghanistan and Pakistan. “The Americans will never give any technology which is slightly superior to (that in use by the) Indians,” he added.

The US is using the most advanced drones, predators and reapers, to attack the militants’ hideouts. Pakistan has long been demanding the same technology. However, the prospects of Islamabad acquiring Predators have been quashed.

Flournoy said that “al Qaeda continues to be very dangerous organisation and the US continues to be concerned about the possibility of homeland attack and the threat remains there”. Al Qaeda still exists and can send people around the world, she added.

Flournoy said that the military operation in Pakistan was a very important component in the success of American strategy in Afghanistan.

She insisted that the US was not losing war in Afghanistan, adding that July 2011 would be the beginning of a process of reviewing on-ground situation.

Flournoy also held a meeting with Chief of Army Staff General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani.

She said that during the meeting both the countries reviewed the progress made in the DCG talks, and discussed Pakistan’s security needs and ongoing operation inside Pakistan. She said that the US did not discuss the option of launching operation in North Wazirstan.

She said that improved coordination between the Pakistani and American commanders was necessary to defeat extremists and it would make difficult for them to move across the border.

Flournoy said that the US was not involved in any way in leaks of thousands of classified war documents. “The leak was a criminal act which has put in danger the lives of many people,” she said, adding that the US Justice Department has launched investigations into the leaks.

She told a questioner that the US government was not suspicious about Paksitan’s commitment and there was tremendous cooperation. “Pakistan killed more terrorists than any country in the world and it gave more sacrifices than anybody else”.

She said that the US recognised Pakistan’s efforts in the ongoing war on terror.

Flournoy said that since 2001 the US has provided over $12 billion to Pakistan, including $8.1 billion under Coalition Support Fund. She said this year over one billion dollars would be given for defence assistance and $282 million would be spent on military training.

Published in The Express Tribune, August 7th, 2010.

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US offers 'unarmed' UAV's to Pak to help in fight against terror
2010-08-07 17:20:00

The United States has said that it is ready to provide a couple of intelligence gathering equipments to Pakistan to help in its anti-terror efforts, however, it would not be available for free.

Talking to media persons at the US Embassy here, visiting US Under Secretary of Defence for Policy, Michele Fluornoy said that the Obama administration has offered Islamabad two intelligence systems- unmanned and unarmed aerial vehicle (UAV) and Scan Eagles, and that a final decision to make a choice rests with the country's military.

The visiting official said the US has given details of both the equipments and the cost to the Pakistan military.

"We have offered them two. One is called Shadow and the other is called Scan Eagles. One is typical UAV system which will provide intelligence to Pakistan security operations in their operations," The News quoted Fluornoy, as saying.

The Scan Eagle system is designed for autonomous field operation. It carries a payload of 6 kilograms, and can be operated from a height of 5,000 metres. It can be launched and retrieved over any terrain, and can also be used for naval operations.

The Shadow drones, which fly at a low altitude and are basically used for reconnaissance and intelligence gathering, are used by the US forces for training operations of bigger and armed drones such as Reaper and Predator.

Responding to a question, Flournoy strongly refuted observations that the US forces were losing the war against the Taliban and Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan.

"No sir, you are badly mistaken. Neither are we losing nor is July 2011 set for the forces to pack their bags. We are not going anywhere. Rather, this is just the beginning of a process to evaluate our strategy in Afghanistan. We remain committed to this region and will stick to Pakistan and Afghanistan," she said. (ANI)
 
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ScanEagle
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Shadow2000
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okay so we r only getting un armed one.......................so it would be better if we just get scan eagle, its small, probably cost lower than others, low maintenance cost, soldiers could carry anywhere they want.
if pakistan is choosing from these two then scan eagle is the best option!
 
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We need Predators not Shadow. We can make Shadow like stuff ourselves.
 
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Another few months back update.

Pakistan has made huge strides in the development of its UAVs–Mukhbir, Uqqab, Jasoos, Ubaabeel and others. Pakistani made UAVs: Uqaab & Jasoos. Up to now the technology was used purely for reconissance purposes, however since 2001, there is an empetus to emulate Predator and Reaper type of drones which has fire missiles and elimiante the targets without the effort of flyingfighter jets. Pakistan is very close on building its own “Predator” which will have the ability to carry and use missiles.

The Pakistani UAV Burraq is a Predator equivalent. Pakistani UAC firms are working closely with Italian, Chinese and Turkish firms–all of whichwork with Isreali technology, borrowed heavily from American products. The recent Turkish-israeli deal will help Turkey develop the next generation of Turkish drones. Pakistan’s indigenous UAVs: Uqaab, Jasoos, Mukhbar & Burraq

ANKARA — Turkey and Israel appear to be on track to finalise a long delayed multi-million-dollar deal for the delivery of 10 drone aircraft for the Turkish air force, a Turkish official said Friday.

The project, launched in 2005, was under threat of cancellation amid delays and rising tensions between the two countries over Israel’s devastating offensive in the Gaza Strip last year.

“Turkish experts are currently in Israel to test the drones,” the defence ministry official told AFP on condition of anonymity.

Should the systems pass the tests, six aircraft will be brought to Turkey’s southeastern province of Batman, on the border with Iraq, for further tests, the official added.

“If there are no problems, we will take the drones. We expect the delivery to take place in the first six months of this year,” he said.

The announcement came ahead of a visit by Israeli Defence Minister Ehud Barak to Turkey on Sunday for talks on mending battered ties following the latest diplomatic row.

On Wednesday Israel was forced to apologise after Ankara threataned to withdraw its ambassador over Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon’s public dressing down of the envoy.

The drone project had been expected to be completed in the second half of 2009, but it was delayed by technical problems, forcing Turkey to give the two contractors — Israel Aerospace Industries and Elbit — a deadline until early 2010 and threaten to cancel the tender.

Last week, Defence Minister Vecdi Gönül said that negotations were under way on the compensation the Israeli companies would pay for the delay, but refused to give a figure.

Media reports have suggested that the compensation could be somewhere around 12 million dollars (8.2 million euros).

The drone contract was part of an 185-million-dollar project that involved the manufacture of 10 aircraft, surveillance equipment and ground control stations, with Turkish firms providing sub-systems and services.

Under a 1996 military cooperation deal, Turkish-Israeli ties have flourished greatly until last year when the two countries fell out about Ankara’s almost daily criticism of the Jewish state over the Gaza war. Turkey, Israel on track to close drone deal: official (AFP).

When the war on terror began, Pakistan requested predator drones for the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) so that the Pakistanis could monitor the 2500 kilometer long Durand Line. The request was refused. Pakistan also requested helicopters, and asked the USA to launch a satellite for Pakistan. The requests fell on deaf ears. Pakistan also requested 80,000 M-16s or Klashnikovs for the Frontier Corps who are still using WW2 vintage rifles. The guns have still not arrived. However Pakistan was asked to “Do More.”

Pakistan as a Major Non-Nato Ally (MNNA) and a founding member of SEATO and CENTO has not been given a single Predator or Reaper. Pakistan has an indigenous UAV capacity, but its drones cannot fire armaments. At present the laser guided technology helps it to identify targets and then relay that information to a helicopter gunship or a plane. Islamabad is in desperate need of UAV which can fire at the target. Need predicates development, and necessity is the mother of invention. It is like being under sanction. Pakistan was under sanctions when it designed and built the JF-17 Thunder with the Chinese. Now the latest UAVis being built with Turkish and Chinese help. Pakistan’s latest UAV is called the Burraq named after a mythical flying horse.

ISLAMABAD — After years of watching U.S. drones operate along its Afghan border, Pakistan is working on its own Predator-like unmanned aerial vehicle to undertake the same mission, sources here said. The sources said the country’s air force and government-owned defense conglomerate, the National Engineering and Scientific Commission, are flight-testing a new-design aircraft to be equipped with a NESCom-designed laser designator and laser-guided missiles. The Burraq UAV is named for a winged horse creature in Islamic tradition, similar to Pegasus.

According to local news reports, Pakistan is focusing its unmanned aircraft efforts on upgrading various older UAVs with Chinese help. But the sources note that no domestically produced UAVis large enough to heft both a missile and a targeting system. The military’s most capable UAV is the air force’s Selex Galileo Falco, which can laser-designate targets for other platforms but cannot deliver munitions.

Officials with the Ministry of Defence and Ministry of Defence Production here refused to confirm or deny the program’s existence. A spokesman for the military’s Inter Services Public Relations said it was “not ready to give a statement on the issue at this time.” One former air force officer said the notion of a Pakistan-developed hunter-killer UAV is credible. “You only have to see our track record,” said Kaiser Tufail, a retired air commodore. “We have some fantastic achievements in the field of defense.”

Tufail said Pakistan needs such a weapon. Anti-terror operations on the frontier require “hours and hours of round-the-clock reconnaissance,” married with the ability to strike quickly when a target is spotted, he said. Help from China? Analysts were more dubious about Pakistan’s ability to produce a laser-guided missile, but they noted that help might be found in China or Turkey. Turkey, with whom Pakistan has an agreement to cooperate on UAV development, is seeking an armed UAV, preferably the Predator or MQ-9 Reaper. This UAVmay someday be armed with the UMTAS infrared guided anti-tank missile being developed by the Turkish firm Roketsan to arm the T-129 attack helicopter.

Pakistan could simply produce China’s new CH-3 unmanned combat air vehicle, “or co-produce any number of Chinese components to assemble a unique UCAV,” said Richard Fisher, China specialist and senior fellow at the International Assessment and Strategy Center in Washington. “China has also developed the unique AR-1, a 45-kilogram, laser-guided attack missile, apparently designed specifically for light winged or helicopter UCAVs,” he said. Pakistan reported developing armed UAV By Usman Ansari – Staff writer, Saturday May 9, 2009 8:17:26 EDT

The Burraq is based on the Falco – SELEX GALILEO technology. We produce information on the Selix Galileo so that an adequate comparision can be made with the Burraq.

The FALCO UAV System is a Medium Altitude Endurance & Tactical UAV designed for optronic and electronic surveillance roles. The basic mission is target detection, localization, identification and designation through its on-board sensors suite which typically include a thermal imager, a color TV Camera and a spotter, or a laser designator.

The best features of the FALCO System include automatic take-off and landing (with STOL performance), fully redundant and fault-tolerant control systems, digital buses and control link equipment, automatic area surveillance modes and near-real-time target image processing.

It really look very mush like the uqab or may be author is citing directly to uqab or if someone can tell they are using the Falco – SELEX GALILEO

The Burraq also uses the design if the Pegasus HALE UAV. The information on the Burraq is similar to the information on the Hale.

Until today, the use of unmanned aircraft has been hindered by the sheer size of the wingspan needed to carry the weight of the payload. With payloads often weighing up to 100 kg, the wingspan required would extend to 60 or 70 metres, creating a total weight of as much as 1000 kg. Aircraft with this weight and wingspan will not become operational for the next couple of years due to issues of air traffic control, safety regulations and technological hurdles such as the development of appropriate fuel cell technology.

We bring you Pegasus, an integrated approach to mission-specific payload, aircraft, control systems and data processing technology. By developing a new generation of ultra light and extremely compact remote sensing equipment, we have been able to reduce the aircraft wingspan to just 16 metres and total flying weight to a mere 18 kg. Furthermore, because these aircraft are designed to be raised into place using the same kind of balloon that is used for weather sounding, no airstrips are required and air control regulations do not apply. The aircaft are taken up in an almost vertical position and reach their operational altitude within 90 minutes. Once in place, the solar powered engines are started and the aircraft is ready to act on instructions received from ground control. The recorded images are then sent to the central database at the ground station from where they are sent on to the customer. Using highly sophisticated software technology, the data can also be processed and analysed, and delivered in a wide variety of graphical and mapped formats, as required.

Pakistan has been using its own drones which it has been manufacturing for a decade.
 
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I knew they won't give us armed ones ... in that case keep those kites to your selves we don't need them.
 
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These Eagles are castrated. But I still don't see why we can't take them and forget to pay. We need heavy surveillance of border areas currently its too porous.
 
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Another Chinese UAV under development.
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Israeli Heuron

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Come on guyz ...dont we eat at our own home or US feed us?..:woot:
We should feel shameful to ask US for any drones or stuff like that ..dont we have engineers sitting at home ...If they cant make any drones why they study...and why they get hired? ...:lol:
Alhamdolillah...Guyz we have enough talent at home to manufacture any kind of drones at home far even better than US too ...just let our engineerz try it...We already have Chinese expertese...which is Alhamdolillah comparable to US...Tomorrow we will ask US to put bread in our mouth too...We should be feeling shameful to beg US all the time...:lol:
 
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Actually.. the scan eagle can be very useful in the fight against the Taliban. Considering cramped valleys and constricted environment, The Scan eagle's size and capability fit the bill nicely.
Our local UAV's can handle the eastern front much better..what we lacked was a smaller platform mobile enough to go along with convoys for their protection.
 
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i heared that americans are seling us predators where these have pop out of now well these were too been offored but pakistan rejected them 3 months ago
 
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i heared that americans are seling us predators where these have pop out of now well these were too been offored but pakistan rejected them 3 months ago
I think American getting to much pressure from Indian lobby in Washington, not to deliver this state of the art UAV. Because our Indian friends always think, they become ultimate target of any new and mod weapon possession. But they forget they already delivered the concept of "cold start" and start getting the delivery of US made transport plane for the mass mobilization of troops.
 
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