Twitter Q&A on JF-17 Thunder Program with Horus & Oscar

[The Accountant]

These guys forget what military dictators did to this country. Ayub essentially killed political system in Pakistan, called Mohtarma Fatima Jinnah a whore, did not let free and fair elections b/c she could clearly win. Some accounts suggest she had wounds on head when buried. Yahya was partying with general Rani while Dhaka collapsed, Zia made this country a haven for terrorists and thugs from all over the world, and Musharriffraff, is on run, the father of duplicity and deceit. Military never allow genuine leadership to surface, all we see is psychos like Imran Khan with time tested chayla-chamchas.

Man dont bring your hidden agenda ... Your post was good untill you start condemning Imran Khan ...

Many of people dislike him including me and I am in particular thinks he lacks administrative capability but any person who thinks that he is not a genuine leader and he has just chayla chamchas around him then he has to come out of NS bedroom as I see that like Bhutto's time right now the politics of Pakistan is revolving around just IK ... either a person is favouring IK and he is hating him and in the current scenario, he is the only one having acceptability all over Pakistan otherwise not a single person have acceptability in all provinces ...

Having said this dont ruin this beautiful thread ...

@Horus kindly clear this thread of these useless post including mine

 

[aftab_s81]

Man dont bring your hidden agenda ... Your post was good untill you start condemning Imran Khan ...

Many of people dislike him including me and I am in particular thinks he lacks administrative capability but any person who thinks that he is not a genuine leader and he has just chayla chamchas around him then he has to come out of NS bedroom as I see that like Bhutto's time right now the politics of Pakistan is revolving around just IK ... either a person is favouring IK and he is hating him and in the current scenario, he is the only one having acceptability all over Pakistan otherwise not a single person have acceptability in all provinces ...

Having said this dont ruin this beautiful thread ...

@Horus kindly clear this thread of these useless post including mine

Hidden agenda? Look, somebody is trying to tag me RAW agent, soon will call blasphemous. Are you going to send some cabin pickups next? Come out of ISPR's bathroom, Gul Khan is done with you.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Every thing seems good apart from not getting a new engine.

Well, the good news is, there shall be 5 Blocks. Maybe in a later Block??? Who knows?????

In March/April Alan Warnes said the JF-17 will likely get a new engine, but in a future block.

 

[CriticalThought]

In March/April Alan Warnes said the JF-17 will likely get a new engine, but in a future block.

I really want a FADEC engine. I was hoping it will happen in Block 3... but oh well. What I also want is for the Thunder program to keep following the technology curve of Mig program. The new engine for Mig-35 comes will a lot of goodies:

The RD-33MK "Morskaya Osa" (Russian: Морская Оса, literally: "Sea Wasp" or Chironex fleckeri) was installed by the new modification. It is the latest version of the RD-33 and was intended to power the MiG-29K and MiG-29KUB. It has 7% more power compared to the baseline model due to the use of modern materials in the cooled blades, providing a higher thrust of 9,000 kgf. In response to earlier criticism, the new engines are smokeless and include systems that reduce infrared and optical visibility. The engines may be fitted with vectored-thrust nozzles, which would result in an increase in combat efficiency by 12% to 15%.[15][34]

The RD-33OVT engine variant comes with thrust vectoring nozzles, and can direct thrust in two directions or planes. As of 2012, the only in-service, in-production fighter jet using this technology is the Sukhoi Su-35. Other current thrust-vectoring aircraft, such as the Sukhoi Su-30MKI and the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor, have nozzles that each vector in one plane.[9] Thrust vectoring capabilites enable this aircraft to use highways or grass strips for landing and takeoff instead of needing to rely on traditionally-prepared asphalt runways

It makes absolute sense to leverage these developments and upgrade the platform for the new engine. Just like various blocks of F-16s benefited from entirely new engines. I hope PAF officials follow this approach.

 

[Alpha BeeTee]

I am sorry to say that the answers to Q8 and Q77 are totally ridiculous.
Or should I say we're feeding the public what they want to hear.
Apart from that,a great info pool for public.

 

[Jinn Baba]

I have a question - please answer:

If not for major/significant structural/engine change (compared to Block 2 or B variant), what possible reason is there for CAC/PAC to take so much longer to produce a single Block 3?

 

[CriticalThought]

I have a question - please answer:

If not for major/significant structural/engine change (compared to Block 2 or B variant), what possible reason is there for CAC/PAC to take so much longer to produce a single Block 3?

NOTE: This is just my own viewpoint, not based on any sources.

The various parts had to be designed, tested, and then assembly lines for their manufacturing needed to be setup. Take the AESA radar. We found only a few months ago about it. It's only the hardware that has been created. The assembly line for this hardware needs to be setup, and the software will take a lot of effort as well. Then, the HMD/S available on the market are all of Israeli origin. Where do you get that from? How do you procure a reliable HOBS missile? The easy things were structural changes, and the B version is a model for what Block 3 will look like. They could be done in China/Pakistan and you can see the result flying already.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I have a question - please answer:

If not for major/significant structural/engine change (compared to Block 2 or B variant), what possible reason is there for CAC/PAC to take so much longer to produce a single Block 3?

While there are no changes to the fundamental design of the JF-17, that doesn't mean there aren't significant internal changes underway in the Block-III. For the purpose of properly integrating an AESA radar, increasing the payload, adding external stores, changing to a digital fly-by-wire flight control system, incorporating an integrated EW/ECM suite, etc, the aircraft's internals would require significant re-working and changing.

The Typhoon Tranche 2 is a good example of this shift. Even though it is outwardly identical to the Tranche 1, the changes within the Tranche 2 are so significant that it is effectively treated as a different fighter. The T1 and T2 can't even be operated within the same unit due to differences in spare parts.

 

[Secur]

I think such comments are best kept to the TT section. They are unhelpful. I fully agree with you on the facts presented but the forum could have been a bit different. Suffice it to say the Armed forces are a product of this same country, they are not angels descended from the heavens above. They carry the same burden of sins which the general masses do. I will leave it at that.
A

I am in complete agreement, senor.

 

[Sucha Kuggu]

A: Smoke due to technically older design of RD-93, current contract for 100 engines with Russia complete- follow up will decide

I read some where in the PDF that smoke from thunder is coz of smaller air intakes.

 

[Silicon0000]

Thanks all for providing info, I have a question that how far Pakistan reached regarding network centric warfare and how good PAF in this? What's its future in Pakistan?

Anyone who have this info, please share.

 

[Hassan Guy]

Block 3 should use the Rd33mk and later blocks should use a locally sourced engine in cooperation with China or Turkey.

 

[Bratva]

Just a little nugget of info, During aerial exercises b/w Chinese SU-27 Flanker and Thai Gripen, Gripen was able to score BVR hit against SU-27 and SU-27 easily beat Gripen in WVR and dogfighting mock combat.

If you are pitting JF-17 against SU-30, make sure JF-17 shot down SU-30 in BVR arena ASAP. IF SU-30 Penetrates WVR or comes in a dog fighting with JF-17. JF-17 Is done.

 

[CriticalThought]

Just a little nugget of info, During aerial exercises b/w Chinese SU-27 Flanker and Thai Gripen, Gripen was able to score BVR hit against SU-27 and SU-27 easily beat Gripen in WVR and dogfighting mock combat.

If you are pitting JF-17 against SU-30, make sure JF-17 shot down SU-30 in BVR arena ASAP. IF SU-30 Penetrates WVR or comes in a dog fighting with JF-17. JF-17 Is done.

True in general, except there are a few factors to consider in WVR. SU-30s larger size means larger Gs on the pilot for same speed and same maneuver as compared to Thunder. I remember reading a long time ago about an exercise between Indians and US (?). The author said the Indians had one King move against the Western jet with their SU-30 and they kept repeating it the whole time. I don't exactly remember it, but if I had to guess, it would be attaining greater potential energy while at the six, then slowing down and using TVC to create a yaw which leads to pointing the jet exactly at the enemy. Coupled with advanced WVR, this would be a death warrant for the Thunder. The obvious tactic is not to let SU-30 gain potential energy advantage over you. It's something our pilots can train for.

 

[Hell hound]

Just a little nugget of info, During aerial exercises b/w Chinese SU-27 Flanker and Thai Gripen, Gripen was able to score BVR hit against SU-27 and SU-27 easily beat Gripen in WVR and dogfighting mock combat.

If you are pitting JF-17 against SU-30, make sure JF-17 shot down SU-30 in BVR arena ASAP. IF SU-30 Penetrates WVR or comes in a dog fighting with JF-17. JF-17 Is done.

we are talking about showdown with HOBS or without HOBS missiles here?