Twist in MMRCA

[DMLA]

Dorai on BRF provided the news.

Dassault and Thales in conflict

Dassault wants to sell second hand mirages to India, while Thales is pitching to retrofit India’s existing fleet.

The Abu Dhabi Air Force and the Qatari Air Force earlier this month officially proposed selling their respective fleet of Mirage 2000 to the Indian Air Force. The Emirates own 68 aircraft, most of which are the more advanced 2000-9 version, while Qatar has some 12 Mirage 2000-5.

The proposal was carefully co-ordinated with Dassault Aviation, which is hoping to replace the Qatari and Emirati Mirages with brand new Rafales.

However Dassault is up against a serious obstacle in its India plans, in the shape of the French defense electronics group Thales. For several years, Thales has been negotiating a contract to retrofit the Indian Air Force’s fleet of Mirage 2000 (IOL 550,564). India will opt for either one or other of the two deals on offer, but not both.

Top brass at Thales are proceeding delicately with their negotiations: Dassault has held a 26% stake in Thales since 2008, while the French government also owns a 27% stake. Thales sales teams, however, are still very much in hot pursuit of the contract (IOL 612), worth an estimated €1.4 billion.

INDIA/FRANCE - Dassault and Thales in conflict - Intelligence Online

I hope IAF decides for both and not either or as stated! 120 mk2's will be a force to reckon with!

 

[genetic_nomad]

thanks for sharing, although I don't see how this is connected to MMRCA.

 

[duhastmish]

thanks for sharing, although I don't see how this is connected to MMRCA.

if india go for these planes - airforce need will be almost suffixed


so only navi based fighter needed so i think f-18 sh will be way to go.

thats how it is related to mrca - lot of equation will change

 

[genetic_nomad]

if india go for these planes - airforce need will be almost suffixed


so only navi based fighter needed so i think f-18 sh will be way to go.

that's how it is related to mrca - lot of equation will change

i meant to say I don't see how this affects the outcome of MMRCA. since the title says "twist in mmrca"
i realize it affects the numbers in the iaf, but it doesn't necessarily affect MMRCA (as far as the competition goes).

also, you're indicating that M2Ks will negate the need for the MMRCA(for IAF), I'm having a hard time agreeing to it since IMHO M2Ks would not be able to perform the MRCA role. Do the Mirages on offer have AESA? (which I think is a major requirement of the MMRCA)

 

[DMLA]

Changed it! Thanks for pointing it out. I got the story from BRF mmrca thread and never really thought it through before posting!

 

[gowthamraj]

The Mirage 2000-9,
advanced multi-role
combat aircraft, is the
last version ever
produced of the Mirage
2000 family.
Adopted by nine air forces
worldwide, 550 Mirage
2000 are currently in
service, logging over
1,540,000 flying hours.
Operated in a wide variety
of environment ranging
from deserts to humid
tropical countries,
including polar and high-
elevation area, deployed
in many international
training exercises and
engaged in various fields
of operation, the Mirage
2000 is a world reference
in terms of availability and
maintenance. Its
interoperability and its
performance have been
well proven in combat.
Mirage 2000-9: the most
advanced version in the
Mirage 2000 family
The Mirage 2000-9 design
has taken advantage of
this huge feed-back
experience from the onset
of the program to
improve the aircraft, the
navigation and weapon
system, and to implement
new functionalities.
As an example,
operational experience
especially within
multinational forces, has
shown the need for an
increased fuel capacity
and firing power.
This requirement has been
fulfilled, among others,
with the introduction into
operational service within
UAE AF & AD (United
Arab Emirates Air Force &
Air Defense) of the
Mirage 2000-9, which is a
significant upgrade from
the previous versions of
the Mirage 2000-5 series.
The Mirage 2000-9
integrates
- the additional operating
capabilities specified and
tailored by the UAE AF &
AD,
- together with a lots of
new technologies
- and functionalities
directly issued from the
experience gained from
the RAFALE aircraft
development.
Mirage 2000-9: a very
ambitious program
This Mirage 2000-9
version is a very ambitious
and successful program
which embedded an
incomparable number of
new capabilities:
→ Navigation and
Weapon System:
Modular avionics, new
RDY-2 multimode radar,
digital terrain following
system, new IMEWS
countermeasures suite,
Thomrad radio with
frequency evasion and
enhanced encoding, glass
cockpit with new LCD
visualisations, 4-display
digital recording system
and night vision goggles
compatibility, tactical
data-link, gyro-Iaser
inertial navigation system,
navigation Forward
Looking Infra-Red system
(NAHAR) ….
→ Air-to-Air role:
A unique capability
available on the Mirage
2000-9 version, allows to
use simultaneously IR and
EM MICA in BVR mode
(Beyond Visual Range) to
deceive electronic warfare
system of the target.
→ Air-to-Ground
strikes:
Conventional bombs, day/
night video and laser-
guided bombs, "Black
Shaheen" stand-off cruise
missiles, long range recce
pod, and "SHEHAB" laser
designation pod.
→ Plus an in-flight
refuelling capacity and
the automatic speed
control system thanks
to the implementation
of the autothrottle
function.
Modular avionics and
countermeasures suite are
particularly worth
mentioning in view of
their unusual nature.
The Mirage 2000-9 is
equipped with a
pioneering IT "core
system" architecture as of
last generation aircraft
(Rafale, F-22 & F-35/JSF).
When it comes to
countermeasures, they
break new ground by
adopting interferometry
technology, providing the
aircraft with high self-
protection capability and
accurate EW threats
localisation.
Aviation > En > Defense > Mirage
2000 > Mirage 2000-9
Mirage 2000-9
WebTV
Newsletter
Photos
Ask a question
related to
Defense
activities
HO

 

[Break the Silence]

I feel India should not go for old mirages, coz they have to fullfill their long term requirement..Even their is no use to buy such old stuff instead of new technologically advanced brand new ones...!!

 

[DeathGod]

I feel India should not go for old mirages, coz they have to fullfill their long term requirement..Even their is no use to buy such old stuff instead of new technologically advanced brand new ones...!!

I am against IAF going for MK9. Here are some of my points:
(Assumption: IAF wont buy MK9 and MMRCA winner)

1. If India needed it then IAF wouldn't have asked French to either compete with Rafael or get lost in the MMRCA.

2. These are old jets. Who knows how well they have been kept and what kind of upgrades they might need. Also there life will be less than newly built aircrafts

3.MMRCA deal is not only about getting good aircrafts but also about politics. Dont think IAF can take any decision outside the mentioned airplanes.

4. These planes dont have AESA or other latest techs that makes an aircraft 4.5++.

The only advantage is buying these is that they are cheap second hand stuff and can be quickly delivered.

 

[genetic_nomad]

my take on it is this; buying a used jet is akin to buying a used car. you'd have no idea(in total certainty) how it was maintained. now I'd be willing to buy a used car since it is not a matter of national security, but I'd look at other options before going for used jets. just my 2 cents

 

[karan.1970]

Is there any news on cost aspect of this.. I mean how much would a plane cost after Dassault is done with it..??

 

[karan.1970]

my take on it is this; buying a used jet is akin to buying a used car. you'd have no idea(in total certainty) how it was maintained. now I'd be willing to buy a used car since it is not a matter of national security, but I'd look at other options before going for used jets. just my 2 cents

Not really the same.. And since you live in the US, you know how easy it is to buy a good used car if you do enough due diligence. Admiral Gork is a good example.. and most of the additional F 16 Pakistan is getting a really refurbished oldies.. arent they..

I really wouldnt mind buying 80 of these(fully refurbished) for the price of 30-40 gripens and buy 100 super hornets instead of 126.

I mean, give me 100 super bugs and 80 M2ks-9 over 126 Super bugs any day...

 

[Break the Silence]

If Iaf will go for old mirages, then this Mrca competition will be viewed by other countries (specially parcipating ones) as a fun made by mod and Iaf, This can cause loss of goodwill of India and Iaf..Really, it will be a dumb @$$ decision, if Iaf will go for old junks,...

 

[KEETARP]

Its not related to MMRCA anyway , its more related to current state of India's falling nos.

Question is which one of the options is better - upgrading or getting those old ones. remember those old ones are upgraded ones to std m2k5 or m2k9.

secondly for 2.1-2.3 billion , how many we will get .
Some 5-6 years ago Qatar asked for 68 millions per plane for old M2k5 thats why deal fell through bcoz MoD was not ready to go beyond 36mill for each one.

 

[Break the Silence]

wo ek kahawat hai na- "MEHNGA ROYE EK BAAR, SASTA ROYE BAAR-BAAR"
The cheap products always proves coslier in long runs... bette is to invest in new technology and new plane...

 

[karan.1970]

wo ek kahawat hai na- "MEHNGA ROYE EK BAAR, SASTA ROYE BAAR-BAAR"
The cheap products always proves coslier in long runs... bette is to invest in new technology and new plane...

Guys.. this is not a cheap knock off like you know what

Its a used plane and that too not in any war.. And each of them is probably newer and better than all the planes in Indian Inventory except the flankers and some fulcrums.. Pride should not be an issue here.. Get 80 of them to plug the gap in Mig 21s and go directly to LCA Mk II or buy them instead of next batch of flankers..

If the price is good, its a waste to let a good deal slide by...


EDIT
And half of them are 10 years or so old (as old as our 1st batch flankers)