Twin Blasts in Quetta, 15 dead

[Ahmad]

So, blame Pakistan for all your problems eh? How, ? did the US have no part in it.? First the ruskies came, then you guys fought in between yourselves and the Taliban and the Northern Alliance, and now this.

No, we dont blame paksitan for it only. We blame everybody and that include ourelves, but Pakistan along with america have played a huge role in teh last 3 decades. Dont forget that both the Taliban and so called northern alliance have had their bases and support in pakistan in the past and taliban still have it..

 

[DV RULES]

RIP TO DEAD


Blast on 31st August should be alarmed law enforcement authorities because Al Mauritani was arrested before 25th August. This was responsibility of federal security authorities to give Quetta a security back up with the help of ISI & FC.
Federal interior ministry directly answerable over its incompetence and lack of operational skill which became cause of lose of lives.

 

[Ahmad]

So the fact of the matter is, most of Afghanistan's problems have nothing to do with Pakistan; but almost all of Pakistan's problems have to do with Afghanistan.

i think it is more of your imaginations than being a fact.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Pakistan has to decentralize security - which means we have to focus on capacity building of local law enforcement, provincial/civilian intelligence and making civilian security forces politically independent, better trained and much better paid.

In a country of 180 million, with poor controls over material that can be potentially used for explosives, and poor control over porous borders with Afghanistan and Iran, it will be almost impossible to tackle terrorism and extremism (small local cells especially) with a centralized military and para-military force.

It is certainly not the ISI or PA that has a 'thana' in every city, town or neighborhood - it is the local cops, and they have to be focus of reform to become Pakistan's first line of defense against terrorism and extremism.

It is the local cops who have the best feel for their neighborhoods and residents, and the best ability to observe and respond to 'suspicious activity'.

The reforms and ideas behind the successful Motorway Police would be good model to follow.

I would also argue that the FIA and IB need to be merged with their provincial equivalents, with provincial HQ's, to minimize red tape and better share data and information. The two organizations need to be taken away from the Interior Ministry and put under the control of a bi-partisan parliamentary commission, perhaps similar to the judicial commission.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

i think it is more of your imaginations than being a fact.

Ahmad, would you no agree that at the root of all this mess has been Afghanistan's historical animosity towards Pakistan based on the claims, by some parts of the Afghan elite, on Pakistan's lands, and the subsequent invitation to the Soviets to deploy their military in Afghanistan?

Those two positions - claims on Pakistani territory/support for insurgents on those lands, and allowing the Soviets to wage war in Afghanistan to 'impose communism' - are at the heart of the problems we see in the region today.

 

[VCheng]

Pakistan has to decentralize security - which means we have to focus on capacity building of local law enforcement, provincial/civilian intelligence and making civilian security forces politically independent, better trained and much better paid.

In a country of 180 million, with poor controls over material that can be potentially used for explosives, and poor control over porous borders with Afghanistan and Iran, it will be almost impossible to tackle terrorism and extremism (small local cells especially) with a centralized military and para-military force.

It is certainly not the ISI or PA that has a 'thana' in every city, town or neighborhood - it is the local cops, and they have to be focus of reform to become Pakistan's first line of defense against terrorism and extremism.

It is the local cops who have the best feel for their neighborhoods and residents, and the best ability to observe and respond to 'suspicious activity'.

The reforms and ideas behind the successful Motorway Police would be good model to follow.

I would also argue that the FIA and IB need to be merged with their provincial equivalents, with provincial HQ's, to minimize red tape and better share data and information. The two organizations need to be taken away from the Interior Ministry and put under the control of a bi-partisan parliamentary commission, perhaps similar to the judicial commission.

Some good ideas, and the only thing I will add is that security can follow only when basic law and order are established, backed up by an effective judiciary and local governance.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

the only thing I will add is that security can follow only when basic law and order are established, backed up by an effective judiciary and local governance.

Yes, and my 'proposals' focusing on reforms in local law enforcement and the FIA and IB are meant as a means to 'establish basic law and order' - the ability to become 'first responders' to terrorism/extremism related activity stems from that focus on 'basic law and order'.

Elite Police Force and some of the specially trained military and para-military units would act as support elements in case of a need for more 'Kinetic Operations'.

 

[VCheng]

Yes, and my 'proposals' focusing on reforms in local law enforcement and the FIA and IB are meant as a means to 'establish basic law and order' - the ability to become 'first responders' to terrorism/extremism related activity stems from that focus on 'basic law and order'.

Elite Police Force and some of the specially trained military and para-military units would act as support elements in case of a need for more 'Kinetic Operations'.

What, in your estimate, would be the funds need to start the process of reforming local law enforcement on the scale and in the manner in which you propose?

 

[Xeric]

Pakistan has to decentralize security - which means we have to focus on capacity building of local law enforcement, provincial/civilian intelligence and making civilian security forces politically independent, better trained and much better paid.

In a country of 180 million, with poor controls over material that can be potentially used for explosives, and poor control over porous borders with Afghanistan and Iran, it will be almost impossible to tackle terrorism and extremism (small local cells especially) with a centralized military and para-military force.

It is certainly not the ISI or PA that has a 'thana' in every city, town or neighborhood - it is the local cops, and they have to be focus of reform to become Pakistan's first line of defense against terrorism and extremism.

It is the local cops who have the best feel for their neighborhoods and residents, and the best ability to observe and respond to 'suspicious activity'.

The reforms and ideas behind the successful Motorway Police would be good model to follow.

I would also argue that the FIA and IB need to be merged with their provincial equivalents, with provincial HQ's, to minimize red tape and better share data and information. The two organizations need to be taken away from the Interior Ministry and put under the control of a bi-partisan parliamentary commission, perhaps similar to the judicial commission.

Absolutely correct.

The Police has a thana in every Union Council - that's the grass root level. The habit of relegating everything to the military needs to be checked. The look after the border, they are committed in the north-west, then natural clamities ad on, cantt security has also taken quite a toll and so on and so forth. The first line of defence - the police is nowhere to be seen. I know they are potent, they are capable and they can handle this, but the politicization of the same has runied this force.

i fail to understand how an SHO is unaware of the 'happenings' of his thana hadoods (limits), but politics and extra activities combined with lack of resources, the reqiiusite resolute and poor motivation eats up any tendency to tackle these issues.

It's high time that we should make them stronger, give them more powers, induct more efficient and capable lot (or else the current guys would misuse every inch of their authority) and train them to take these thugs head on without ifs and buts. Only then, we as a Nation can face this 'clamity' in true sense of war against terror. The civilian society also has to play its part, this in turn would require better educated lot which in turn would entail better leaders and politics. This is how the CNP of a Nation/State fights terrorism, militaries alone dont do it

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

What, in your estimate, would be the funds need to start the process of reforming local law enforcement on the scale and in the manner in which you propose?

IMO the issue is not funds, it is a lack of political will to implement changes such as these which would essentially eliminate the influence of our elites over law enforcement.

 

[VCheng]

IMO the issue is not funds, it is a lack of political will to implement changes such as these which would essentially eliminate the influence of our elites over law enforcement.

Political will may be forthcoming, since it does not cost anything.

Let's try some simple numbers: What is the total force of the Motorway Police that you used as an example and its budget? Compare that to the total police force you suggest to be raised to that level, and the numbers will give a realistic idea of whether having a will or not, is the idea affordably implementable or not.

 

[Jango]

Police is the most corrupt institution in Pakistan which has a direct involvment with the public. If it is solved, problems will be much less.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Political will may be forthcoming, since it does not cost anything.

You really think so, given the tussles between the PPP and the SC on corruption cases and the transfers/promotions of officials in the FIA etc. viewed as not being 'sympathetic' to the PPP?

Several thousand 'Jiyala's have been inducted into the FIA and IB alone since the PPP took power - the political 'cost', in terms of not being able to influence investigations into corruption and criminal activity by 'politicians' as well as the inability to use these institutions to 'reward' political supporters through 'jobs', is tremendous.

Let's try some simple numbers: What is the total force of the Motorway Police that you used as an example and its budget? Compare that to the total police force you suggest to be raised to that level, and the numbers will give a realistic idea of whether having a will or not, is the idea affordably implementable or not.

I'll throw out a number I often use '$3 Billion per year' - the savings from privatizing/shutting down the largest loss making PSE's such as PIA, PS etc. That should more than cover it.

But talk of 'financing' reforms is premature when the political will to implement reforms does not exist - the focus must first be on pressuring the elected leadership to propose and implement reform.

 

[VCheng]

You really think so, given the tussles between the PPP and the SC on corruption cases and the transfers/promotions of officials in the FIA etc. viewed as not being 'sympathetic' to the PPP?

Several thousand 'Jiyala's have been inducted into the FIA and IB alone since the PPP took power - the political 'cost', in terms of not being able to influence investigations into corruption and criminal activity by 'politicians' as well as the inability to use these institutions to 'reward' political supporters through 'jobs', is tremendous.

I'll throw out a number I often use '$3 Billion per year' - the savings from privatizing/shutting down the largest loss making PSE's such as PIA, PS etc. That should more than cover it.

But talk of 'financing' reforms is premature when the political will to implement reforms does not exist - the focus must first be on pressuring the elected leadership to propose and implement reform.

Fair points, but the reason for my saying that political will can be found lies in the fact that exploitative systems, such as that in control in Pakistan at the moment, are first and foremost self-preserving. As soon as the realization hits the politicians that they themselves are at risk of losing their perpetual hold on power, their intentions will gel immediately. Whether the system can afford at point to implement the will is what I point out.

$3 billion per year? I would estimate the cost of a properly trained and equipped LEO in Pakistan at about $50k per year, everything included. That would give you 60,000 LEOs to play with.

It should be enough I think. (Total Pakistan police force at the moment is about 325,000 with a sanctioned budget of about PKR 81 billion per year, which works out to just under $3,000 dollars per LEO per year.)

Edit Figures corrected.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

RIP to the dead. Sad day for both delhiites and quetta-wallahs.