Turning the Taliban: A Rare Visit to Deradicalization Center in Pakistan

[Irfan Baloch]

I presume the Pakistani army has learned from the mistakes of the Saudi rehab program and not inculcated into these students that jihadism is ok as long as it's instigated by the ruling authority. That allowed Isis to twist the Saudis effort from being a rehab program for reintegration into Saudi society into an intake program for integration into ISIS.

we live in hope dont we?
re your presumption, I can say yes because the rehab centres are not only visited by local and international NGO's but also the Western officials so you can rule out the risk you just mentioned specially when the rehabilitation program includes Pashton music and basic skills like construction and carpentry etc

 

[Sipahi]

much needed ... as we can't kill all of them

 

[Irfan Baloch]

much needed ... as we can't kill all of them

remember that these people in the rehab centre are not the ones you see playing football with the skulls, beheading people, pillaging villages and destroying lives and even desecrating corpses and graves. those kind are rehabilitated only though the Cobra gunships and PAF jets
the people in these programs are lower tier footmen who joined taliban on a tribal/ clan code and have not committed any atrocities .

 

[Sipahi]

remember that these people in the rehab centre are not the ones you see playing football with the skulls, beheading people, pillaging villages and destroying lives and even desecrating corpses and graves. those kind are rehabilitated only though the Cobra gunships and PAF jets
the people in these programs are lower tier footmen who joined taliban on a tribal/ clan code and have not committed any atrocities .

i endorse that solution too

 

[Blue Marlin]

such centres should be around areas where the Taliban are growing and are in occupation and de-radicalised people should share their stories and explain why their previous action are bad and against religion to help this menace be removed from the face of the earth. if they refuse you should de-radicalised them with hellfire missiles. that too will work.

 

[Solomon2]

we live in hope dont we?
re your presumption, I can say yes because the rehab centres are not only visited by local and international NGO's but also the Western officials so you can rule out the risk you just mentioned specially when the rehabilitation program includes Pashton music and basic skills like construction and carpentry etc

The Saudi program included (I'm not sure it's still in operation) Playstations, table tennis, teaching manual skills and providing participants with a car and sometimes a wife. Regardless of such inducements, roughly 20% (some say 12%) returned to terrorism.

I'm not sure but I think the Saudi program was voluntary in which case it's difficult to say what difference it made, for these are men who already were disposed towards abandoning terror as their way in life.

I also am not sure why you believe the influence of NGOs is automatically a positive one. The Israeli experience is that some NGOs tend to encourage terror and finance conflict more than anything else.

 

[Dubious]

Regardless of such inducements, roughly 20% (some say 12%) returned to terrorism.

It is no shocker....Rehabilitation centers in USA also doesnt even have a 50% success rate....So if USA which is far advanced and has more studies cant have 50% rate I can understand the level of skepticism coming from there!

However, whats the rate in Israel and which country has lower than 20% / 12%?

Saudi is a different system altogether its a sultanate....with its set of laws and rules....Pakistan is prob equally lawless but never in our history have the religious politicians won in elections or ever run our country....So I dont really get why you are comparing this first time trial to Saudi with maximum skepticism and also pessimism?

If we kill them, the world has a heartburn and human rights have a field day bashing Pakistan....If we "rehabilitate them" then people like you pour in with all negativeness...Let the army do their job!

I'm not sure but I think the Saudi program was voluntary in which case it's difficult to say what difference it made, for these are men who already were disposed towards abandoning terror as their way in life.

I also am not sure why you believe the influence of NGOs is automatically a positive one. The Israeli experience is that some NGOs tend to encourage terror and finance conflict more than anything else.

And Israel isnt a role model either....After you repeatedly kill parents and families as well as neighbours of people and continue doing so even when they surrender, I dont understand how you expect the damaged psychology to recover by even the best rehab center on the planet....

People are human with feelings...

 

[Solomon2]

However, whats the rate in Israel and which country has lower than 20% / 12%?

If I recall correctly, in ex-prison guard Jeffrey Goldberg's book Prisoners he wrote the Arabs saw prison as an all-expenses paid school for terror, he suspected that youngsters were sexually abused by older prisoners, and he was sure that international NGOs, specifically the International Red Cross, were keen to supply subversive literature to the prison library.

Saudi is a different system altogether its a sultanate....with its set of laws and rules....Pakistan is prob equally lawless but never in our history have the religious politicians won in elections or ever run our country....So I dont really get why you are comparing this first time trial to Saudi with maximum skepticism and also pessimism?

Why not compare and contrast with other countries that have deradicalisation programs?

If we kill them, the world has a heartburn and human rights have a field day bashing Pakistan....If we "rehabilitate them" then people like you pour in with all negativeness...Let the army do their job!

Right now it's constructive criticism, though maybe I'll take your advice and "pour in with all negativeness" if I see systemic or deliberate failures.

And Israel isnt a role model either....After you repeatedly kill parents and families as well as neighbours of people and continue doing so even when they surrender, I dont understand how you expect the damaged psychology to recover by even the best rehab center on the planet....

Haven't you figured out yet that you can't trust anything anti-Israel that's published in Pakistan, since anything that refutes an anti-Israel lie is considered activity that "challenge(s) the ideology and principles of Pakistan" and is thus subject to extra-legal suppression?

 

[Styx]

jihad bhi ek nasha hai

any stats for what percentage of these 'holy warriors' are likely to relapse ?

good initiative though, treatment through education is better than treatment through bullets.

 

[Gufi]

Haven't you figured out yet that you can't trust anything anti-Israel that's published in Pakistan, since anything that refutes an anti-Israel lie is considered activity that "challenge(s) the ideology and principles of Pakistan" and is thus subject to extra-legal suppression?

Yes you never bomb civilian areas indiscriminately, excuse me let me find that amnesty international report on the latest targeting that you failed to respond to on any thread you post your wonderful discussions of how careful you are with human life...
and your settlers this is an extract.... ' However, in spite of recommendations made by the attorney general, the justice and internal security ministers, and even the Shin Bet, the governmental cabinet has decided not to deem 'price tag' attacks as acts of terror, rather opting to enhance the defense minister's ability to curb such attacks by deeming their organizers as illegal associations.'

 

[Dubious]

he wrote

he suspected

I am not sure what kind of kicks you get from such theories about OTHER COUNTRIES but refute to the end if it was about Israel

Why not compare and contrast with other countries that have deradicalisation programs?

Because MANY such countries have been doing it for awhile while it is Pakistan's first attempt so why compare? Comparison is done when there is data to compare Pakistan's program has just started so no proper data can be used to compare anything...

Right now it's constructive criticism, though maybe I'll take your advice and "pour in with all negativeness" if I see systemic or deliberate failures.

Fair but your "constructive criticism" is not of Pakistan but of another country and you are trying to imply/ show its equal to the worst example ...How is that fair? I mean sure if this was the 5th time Pakistan was doing it the SAME WAY AS Saudi you could compare and criticize...But people who criticize before the data comes in dont fit under constructive criticism

They are just negative!

Haven't you figured out yet that you can't trust anything anti-Israel that's published in Pakistan

Likewise, you cant trust 100% of crap you read as truth until and unless you have either been there or live there!

It applies to every country...

People read American cops beat black people day in and day out
People read Israel bombing children on beach (not published by Pakistan but repeated papers with the dead bodies of the children)
People ALSO read about this: Breaking the Silence › Israeli soldiers talk about the occupied territories - Non Pakistani source

since anything that refutes an anti-Israel lie is considered activity that "challenge(s) the ideology and principles of Pakistan" and is thus subject to extra-legal suppression?

I dont know who told you that...But if you can get extra sensitive about Israel expect the same from other countries...We are also human not just you.

Do explain Breaking the Silence › Israeli soldiers talk about the occupied territories

Which is not published by Pakistan .....and you cant blame any other country on the planet for that coz its Israeli published BY people of Israel...infact by ex servicemen....Who would know better of ground realities and crimes they committed than you blindly eating propaganda

And this isnt something new: Israelis admit war crimes - World - News - The Independent

From 1995 - non Pakistani published .....Maybe you cant trust Pakistan but even British people know what they have created!

 

[Solomon2]

Yes you never bomb civilian areas indiscriminately, excuse me let me find that amnesty international report on the latest targeting -

Did I really not respond to it? Regardless, there are various critiques of it on the web. Why do you expect me to do the work for you 100% of the time? Can't you find your own answers?

 

[Dubious]

Did I really not respond to it? Regardless, there are various critiques of it on the web. Why do you expect me to do the work for you 100% of the time? Can't you find your own answers?

You are the one siding it....So you should have reasons to do so....Plus wouldnt it be better if you could answer for what you believe than troll on threads asking questions to which you already have a preconceived mindset which wont change no matter what the other say?

 

[Solomon2]

Because MANY such countries have been doing it for awhile while it is Pakistan's first attempt so why compare? Comparison is done when there is data to compare Pakistan's program has just started so no proper data can be used to compare anything...

Before there's data on the results, there are plans for the curriculum. That's what should be compared at this stage.

...your "constructive criticism" is not of Pakistan but of another country and you are trying to imply/ show its equal to the worst example ...How is that fair?

I think the Saudi program is the earliest post-9/11 example and thus is THE measure for comparison.

Likewise, you cant trust 100% of crap you read as truth until and unless you have either been there or live there!

There is such a thing as perspective.

People read American cops beat black people day in and day out

Sounds like some people have strange reading obsessions.

People read Israel bombing children on beach (not published by Pakistan but repeated papers with the dead bodies of the children)

Wasn't it evil to encourage kids to play outside in the middle of what was already a shooting gallery?

People ALSO read about this: Breaking the Silence › Israeli soldiers talk about the occupied territories - Non Pakistani source

Yup, some Jews do anything for money. BTS is renowned for telling stories that cannot be checked because they won't release enough information to do it.

I dont know who told you that...

I embedded the link.

But if you can get extra sensitive about Israel expect the same from other countries...We are also human not just you.

Which is why you, too, can achieve what the Israelis have, if you put your minds and hearts to it.

Do explain Breaking the Silence › Israeli soldiers talk about the occupied territories

Specializes in promoting hearsay and unverifiable hearsay "testimonies", funded mostly by Europeans eager to direct the burden of the ancient Christianity-Islam conflict upon the backs of Israel's Jews: link. (What do you expect, they have to specialize in phony stuff because real incidents are so few and far between they would never sustain condemnation of an entire people.)

Which is not published by Pakistan .....

More importantly, refutations of these evil-minded accounts aren't published by Pakistan. Then you'd realize you'd been had.

and you cant blame any other country on the planet for that coz its Israeli published BY people of Israel...

If you are an adult you are responsible for your own actions and beliefs - including your participation in unjustly bad-mouthing others.

....Maybe you cant trust Pakistan but even British people know what they have created!

You might want to read Tuvia Tenenbom's account Catch the Jew! regarding the conduct of the British press and European NGOs in Israel, or the difficult-to-find 1943 book The Unknown Ally about Britain's plans to betray their League of Nations Mandate and the Jews of Palestine by setting the Arabs at their throats.

 

[Dubious]

That's what should be compared at this stage.

Then only compare that...You were comparing success rate and how many people have gone back in Saudi...

I think the Saudi program is the earliest post-9/11 example and thus is THE measure for comparison.

It depends on how serious the organizers were...

There is such a thing as perspective.

Being on this forum you bring in lop sided theories to convince people about a land they live in and know is not perspective but we call it hasad in Arabic it has the meaning of jealous + a disease of the heart whereby the sick doesnt allow anyone else the good they desire for themselves...

It doesnt only imply jealousy but the emphasis is more on a disease of the heart.....

Sounds like some people have strange reading obsessions.

Not if it is trending...Like how your obsession is also VERY very narrow regarding Islam, Saudi and Pakistan....

Wasn't it evil to encourage kids to play outside in the middle of what was already a shooting gallery?

So lets blame the kids but not people with advanced technology which they claim to have a LOW chance to miss or get wrong so it was what intentional? Kids enjoying on the beach - so they are not allowed to even enjoy on their own beach? Thank you for justifying how their lives REALLY are!

Yup, some Jews do anything for money. BTS is renowned for telling stories that cannot be checked because they won't release enough information to do it.

1) whose paying them and why?

2) cant be checked? What are videos to blur to recognize the person being interviewed? they give names of some of the people introduced ....Maybe they dont want Israel to kill and shut them up?

Have you ever even visited the cite? Or as usual ANYTHING against Israel is wrong coz the country is so freaking holy it cant go wrong even when they dont allow kids to even play on the beach or else they will be vapourized?

I embedded the link.

So is that a problem? The booth was about a country we dont acknowledge exists...it was not anti israel mind you

Specializes in promoting hearsay and unverifiable hearsay "testimonies", funded mostly by Europeans eager to direct the burden of the ancient Christianity-Islam conflict upon the backs of Israel's Jews: link. (What do you expect, they have to specialize in phony stuff because real incidents are so few and far between they would never sustain condemnation of an entire people.)

So the soldiers are phony? Obviously Jews of Israel and propaganda will say that see how you are defending it...For Israel you ONLY believe what YOU are fed...You refuse to think for yourself about things concerning it...But you will bash every other country? How shameless and double standard!

More importantly, refutations of these evil-minded accounts aren't published by Pakistan. Then you'd realize you'd been had.

So now Pakistan owns independent.co.uk ? Interesting!

If you are an adult you are responsible for your own actions and beliefs - including your participation in unjustly bad-mouthing others.

But you practice that wholeheartedly for Saudi , Islam and Pakistan ....ALL Your posts are screaming out as evidence!

You might want to read Tuvia Tenenbom's account Catch the Jew! regarding the conduct of the British press and European NGOs in Israel, or the difficult-to-find 1943 book The Unknown Ally about Britain's plans to betray their League of Nations Mandate and the Jews of Palestine by setting the Arabs at their throats.

And yet you hate Muslims and Islam but not them? Interesting!