TURNING POINT IN THE HISTORY OF INDIAN SUBCONTINENT

[Joe Shearer]

nahi bhai hum to hindutva vadi hai hum akhand bharat mein bharosa karte hai .

Main to nahin hoon. Aur na adhikansh Bharat-vashi hain.

 

[jandk]

While this cannot be ruled out, I doubt that there is any concrete proof of Vedic settlements on the banks of the Saraswati.




That is really too far-fetched. You cannot be serious about this, not without proving that you are completely frivolous or completely foolish.

Have you heard of the term, "Saraswat Brahmins"? THey are found in places like Kashmir, Jammu, Punjab etc..I am one. What is the origin of this group?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Paar behn Akhand Bharat tou Musalman super power hoi ga.

I really hope we are all being sarcastic btw.

Behn? Ishaqzaade, kindly clarify at once; are you a 'pai' or a 'pain'?

 

[Joe Shearer]

I don't dispute your analysis, even though I feel it is veering a little bit into a side angle. I would go even further and say that, since Hinduism is the dominant cultural element (spatially, temporally and devotionally) within modern India, that it behooves all citizens to be conversant in it, at least minimally and academically. In the interests of communal harmony and secularism, it would be desirable to reciprocate that courtesy to other major religions in the land also, again purely academically.

The part where I disagree is the extreme position that other faiths need to be expurgated from India and their adherent brought back into the fold of the "native" faith.

I object to this proposition very strongly. This is as majoritarian as you can get. It must be everybody's individual decision on cultural matters. And people should be allowed to take up a Mugwump position and isolate themselves if they so want to, while society stretches to accommodate their position.

 

[vsdoc]

nahi bhai hum to hindutva vadi hai hum akhand bharat mein bharosa karte hai .

Why is Tibet not included?

 

[Rig Vedic]

While this cannot be ruled out, I doubt that there is any concrete proof of Vedic settlements on the banks of the Saraswati.

On one hand you have the Rig Veda itself talking about people settled on the banks of the Saraswati, and being involved in agriculture. On the other hand you have the actual archaeological settlements.

 

[Joe Shearer]

On one hand you have the Rig Veda itself talking about people settled on the banks of the Saraswati, and being involved in agriculture. On the other hand you have the actual archaeological settlements.

I suspect that you are conflating things here, in the exact sense of that word. The references to the people settled on the banks of the Saraswati cannot be linked to the settlements. The settlements, the actual archaeological settlements, as you refer to them, on the other hand, can be linked to other settlements, much older ones, which have no references in the Rg Veda. So the reality is that the settlements on the Saraswati and elsewhere are closer together and far more likely to be homogenous than the settlements on the Saraswati and their literary equivalents.

You must be very pleased at having closed the loop, but think of the even greater gladness and rejoicing when the rest of the world joins your group.

 

[Rig Vedic]

The settlements, the actual archaeological settlements, as you refer to them, on the other hand, can be linked to other settlements, much older ones, which have no references in the Rg Veda.

The text referring to the people settled on the Saraswati banks dates to the period when the Saraswati was a mighty river. The actual archaeological settlements also date to the same period. And these sites are also contemporaries of the other "Harappan" sites.

 

[Developereo]

As I feared, our views are convergent.

You really should take care not to let such things happen. I have a reputation to keep up, you know.

I am sure we will find ourselves in familiar surrounds soon enough. Dare I say the K-word?

As for your other post, I have to admit with some trepidation that I have been sloppy. Many places, but not all, I used the acronym IVC when I really meant "IV" since the "C" had long since become irrelevant by the time the Vedic era really got going. Hopefully, the intent is clear from context.

Secondly, I am not trying to prove Islam as being indigenous. The bit about India annexing Saudi Arabia was an attempt at reductio ad absurdum to further my definition of indigenous. The aim, rather, was to show that Vedic influence is not fully indigenous to India and, therefore, not all that different from Islamic influence.

Thirdly. as for cathedrals, I am not sure the analogy applies. Cross-border and cross-cultural influence is the norm in the arts and sciences so, even if something is claimed as indigenous, it is understood that it is all built on the shoulders of (international) giants, so to speak.

Finally, as for Erasmus and others, again no Spaniard or Frenchman would claim them to be indigenous to their nationality. I do agree that they belong to Christendom, or Europe, or Western civilization as a civilizational unit, and that is a good point. I'll have to think about that.

 

[Rig Vedic]

The archaeological settlements date to before 1900 BC, the height of the IVC.

Which is also the period of the Rig Veda, which describes the Saraswati as a mighty river, and talks about an agricultural people settled on its banks. Giving us collocation in time and space.

An inaugural address by archaeologist BB Lal, at a conference in 2008 - http://www.scribd.com/doc/7753728/The-Sarasvati-bb-Lal

 

[Joe Shearer]

Which is also the period of the Rig Veda, which describes the Saraswati as a mighty river, and talks about an agricultural people settled on its banks. Giving us collocation in time and space.

An inaugural address by archaeologist BB Lal, at a conference in 2008 - The Sarasvati (b.b. Lal)

The whole Saraswati business is such a defective and ill-advised theory that it is best to read up thoroughly once again before answering.

 

[Rusty]

I have never hidden my dislike of violent Islam and the threat it poses to the civilized world order.

Whatever gave you that idea?

As for the rest, do you really think me a proud Mazdayasni Aryan is waiting for a certificate of approval from those who bent over?

Instead of worrying about "violent Islam"
You should first sorry about Violent Hindus and the threat they pose to your very country.
With literally thousands dead and precious historic sites destroyed, Violent Hindus are destroying your country while you close your eyes and get angry at Muslims.

 

[vsdoc]

Instead of worrying about "violent Islam"
You should first sorry about Violent Hindus and the threat they pose to your very country.
With literally thousands dead and precious historic sites destroyed, Violent Hindus are destroying your country while you close your eyes and get angry at Muslims.

Bro I do not agree with you.

The Hindus, the most jingoist and violent and bigoted ones, still think of India as their own country.

That is important to me.

 

[indushek]

i agree with u somewhat

atleast with the arrival of britishers, a sense of unity got instilled in the people

however we abuse them, like they were the only ones who ruled us

but we shud not forget that they did some good too...

Yaar u took my post in an entirely different way, yes Britishers were cause but certainly not the main one responsible for this unity 'instilled'.

You see by the time of our Independence already Kingdoms were in their dusk, nation states gathered good momentum and people were seeing the use of education for all. One can call it all round enlightenment. The British might have left us for various reasons but there was no confirmation that this country unified would survive. The princely states had to be integrated and then a constitution was to be framed, lot of hurdles etcetc. These were done by us not anybody else. Infact by partitioning British made sure we stayed weak.

 

[Iggy]

Instead of worrying about "violent Islam"
You should first sorry about Violent Hindus and the threat they pose to your very country.
With literally thousands dead and precious historic sites destroyed, Violent Hindus are destroying your country while you close your eyes and get angry at Muslims.

Can you share some insight over the Historic sites destroyed by Hindus recently??