Turks To Help Britain Built It's Type 26 Frigate

[Jigs]

News from the 3 day Inward Mission from Turkey Naval sector organised by UKTI DSO has started to leak.

It was meant a way to promote business to business relations between Turkey and UK, especially on naval projects. I have already reported about it here and here.

The first informations surfacing on the media however caught me on the wrong foot. According to the article published on 14 Feburary 2010 on Wall Street Journal, Turkey and UK may work on the Britain's next generation frigate Type 26:

LONDON—The U.K. and Turkey are negotiating a military pact that would see the two European powers take part in joint exercises and share expertise, a person familiar with the matter said.
The agreement underscores how the U.K., Europe's most active military, is eager to work more closely with allied militaries amid budget cuts. In October, the British government announced cuts to the military budget of 7.5% over the next four years.

An accompanying Security and Defense Strategy Review placed great emphasis on alliances and partnerships to "enhance capability."

Britain hopes to have completed its memorandum of understanding with Turkey by July, this person said. Much of the deal will hinge on joint exercises. For instance, the U.K. could train helicopter pilots in Turkey, whose hot and mountainous terrain replicates Afghanistan.

Further down the line, the two countries are looking at cooperating on equipment programs.

One "possibility" is that the Turks would help build Britain's Type 26 Frigate, a type of naval ship due to enter service in the early 2020s. Britain also wants to offer more places to train Turkish officers at its Royal College of Defence Studies and the Turks will invite British personnel to their training courses.

A spokesman for the Turkish defense ministry couldn't be reached for comment Sunday.

Well that would be a first. I know that parts of British warships are sometimes constructed at foreign yards for cost saving measures and when I first about the Inward Mission, I thought that UK would offer help to Turkey in warship construction, not the other way around.

But may be times are changing.
http://turkishnavy.blogspot.com/
Posted by Saturn 5 at 00:09

Looks like we are about to become a global player on naval ship building.

 

[Nutuk]

Let's not rush into assumptions, there is nothing definite yet.
The case is that the British MOD and Turkish MOD look into possible fields of cooperation and one of it is the TF2000/Type 26 since both nations seek a similar frigate. These contacts may lead to cooperation but the chance is evenly big that Turkey and Britain won't agree.

 

[Jigs]

Let's not rush into assumptions, there is nothing definite yet.
The case is that the British MOD and Turkish MOD look into possible fields of cooperation and one of it is the TF2000/Type 26 since both nations seek a similar frigate. These contacts may lead to cooperation but the chance is evenly big that Turkey and Britain won't agree.

I was thinking this may have a play in the TF-2000 project or vice verse however the time lines are a little off. The British are looking to induct their next generation frigates after 2020 (type 26 in 2021). I was aware TF-2000 would work in before this time line around 2018. Those OHP will need to be replaced we should look to do this in a timely matter. Unless we are looking to get 40 years out of them as well like the case currently is with our B-Class corvettes. British may also be looking at us as a way of cheap labor force. We have proven we can produce modern designs and probably be considerable cheaper then their domestic shipbuilding industry.

 

[Nutuk]

The OHP's will be replaced by TF100 multipurpose frigates

 

[Jigs]

The OHP's will be replaced by TF100 multipurpose frigates

Possibly. However there are 4 planned out of the Milgem project. We have 8 in service. Also note that the TF100s are not used for AAW capability. However the OHPs are through their SM-1s. ESSM is a defensive system more so then offensive. Basically the modern RIM-7.

 

[Nutuk]

Possibly. However there are 4 planned out of the Milgem project. We have 8 in service. Also note that the TF100s are not used for AAW capability. However the OHPs are through their SM-1s. ESSM is a defensive system more so then offensive. Basically the modern RIM-7.

TF100 will also have ESSM and if possible indigenous SAM, the 4 ships are just first batch just like the Meko example we have (Meko 200 batch I, Meko 200 batch II). There will be procured as many as needed, first batch is most likely to replace the OHP's which have limited modernization.

 

[Jigs]

TF100 will also have ESSM and if possible indigenous SAM, the 4 ships are just first batch just like the Meko example we have (Meko 200 batch I, Meko 200 batch II). There will be procured as many as needed, first batch is most likely to replace the OHP's which have limited modernization.

That was the point i was making ESSM is not viable for AAW it is a defensive system. If it is going to have a SAM (especially a modern one) then it also needs the necessary radar and have considerable size for a large VLS setup. You won't get that with the TF-100(too small) which will from most reports be the same Milgem structure but with the hull enlarged for ESSM.


For AAW you need large ships with very advanced radars that can search hundreds of kilometers.


Like the Sachsen class from Germany. Its radar can pick up fighter aircraft from over 400km away. Its VLS can carry 32 ESSM and 24 SM-2 SAMs which have a range of 170km.

The TF-2000 would be the only viable replacement for the OHPs. I hope we speed it up. We really have a problem with retiring obsolete equipment in a timely manner. Maybe with our industry this can eventually be avoided.

 

[Nutuk]

OHP tasks and TF2000 tasks are much different, TF2000 is not a replacement for OHP. The OHP are used as escort and ASUW with a limited airdefence in other words multipurpose just like the TF100 is meant to be. ESSM is also airdefence (medium range).

To recap :
OHP + Meko 200 replacement on the long run = TF100
Burak class corvettes + large patrol boat replacement = Milgem

With TF2000 the Turkish navy will get cruiser capabilities to function as guard for LPD's LHD's.

 

[Jigs]

OHP tasks and TF2000 tasks are much different, TF2000 is not a replacement for OHP. The OHP are used as escort and ASUW with a limited airdefence in other words multipurpose just like the TF100 is meant to be. ESSM is also airdefence (medium range).

To recap :
OHP + Meko 200 replacement on the long run = TF100
Burak class corvettes + large patrol boat replacement = Milgem

With TF2000 the Turkish navy will get cruiser capabilities to function as guard for LPD's LHD's.

I see what you mean however if we do go that route there will be a period where we wont have AAW in the form of SM-1s. In theory you can use the ESSM as a offensive system it does have a 50km(that covers point and local ranges) is quite accurate. However it is made for defensive roles. Which is what i was trying to point out with the Sachsen class it has both. ESSM to stop incoming threats and SM-2 to take the fight to the enemy.

On the Meko 200 i see no reason the TF100s will prove to be a improvement. The Mekos have more range and greater firepower i can see a different class replacing these.

 

[ajay]

Thats one fine Frigate India should also join hands with UK for this type of ship

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Looks like we are about to become a global player on naval ship building.

Can you show some indigenously built war ships or something?

 

[Jigs]

Can you show some indigenously built war ships or something?

 

[Nutuk]

I see what you mean however if we do go that route there will be a period where we wont have AAW in the form of SM-1s. In theory you can use the ESSM as a offensive system it does have a 50km(that covers point and local ranges) is quite accurate. However it is made for defensive roles. Which is what i was trying to point out with the Sachsen class it has both. ESSM to stop incoming threats and SM-2 to take the fight to the enemy.

On the Meko 200 i see no reason the TF100s will prove to be a improvement. The Mekos have more range and greater firepower i can see a different class replacing these.

No, 4 of the OHP's with limited modernization (only Genesis battlemanagement system + some minor modifications) will continue to carry the SM1 missile.
Secondly there is no such thing as "offensive" airdefence missile, all airdefence missiles are defensive like their name says. What you probably mean is longrange airdefence.

In which way do you think the Meko 200 has greater firepower? On the contrary the TF100 will have a much more modern battle management system, radar/sensor suite, be stealth and carry indigenous weaponry. The firepower and functionality will increase, she will be able to conduct netcentric warfare have various UAV's and UUV's a board (it's like a next generation fighter compared to an older generation).

 

[Jigs]

No, 4 of the OHP's with limited modernization (only Genesis battlemanagement system + some minor modifications) will continue to carry the SM1 missile.
Secondly there is no such thing as "offensive" airdefence missile, all airdefence missiles are defensive like their name says. What you probably mean is longrange airdefence.

In which way do you think the Meko 200 has greater firepower? On the contrary the TF100 will have a much more modern battle management system, radar/sensor suite, be stealth and carry indigenous weaponry. The firepower and functionality will increase, she will be able to conduct netcentric warfare have various UAV's and UUV's a board (it's like a next generation fighter compared to an older generation).

ESSM/RIM-7 these were made to defend ships from attacks they can be used offensively but lack the range in modern engagements. While the SM-1/2/3 are made for offensive capability. Why do you think there are two different sets on ships. They could have easily filled all the VLS with SM-2s. Different missiles have different purposes. You could in turn also use a RIM-116 has a offensive weapon. However i very much doubt you would last long if you go after aircraft with it.

The Meko 200 have a better CIWS system, Larger caliber main gun, Faster 32 knots vs 29 knots. Longer range and the last two already have ESSM.

The TF-100 are just Milgems with ESSM and domestic sensors to save logistics. Don't mix up 2,000-2,500 ton ships with replacing our larger classes.

 

[Nutuk]

1)ESSM/RIM-7 these were made to defend ships from attacks they can be used offensively but lack the range in modern engagements. While the SM-1/2/3 are made for offensive capability. Why do you think there are two different sets on ships. They could have easily filled all the VLS with SM-2s. Different missiles have different purposes. You could in turn also use a RIM-116 has a offensive weapon. However i very much doubt you would last long if you go after aircraft with it.

2)The Meko 200 have a better CIWS system, Larger caliber main gun, Faster 32 knots vs 29 knots. Longer range and the last two already have ESSM.

3)The TF-100 are just Milgems with ESSM and domestic sensors to save logistics. Don't mix up 2,000-2,500 ton ships with replacing our larger classes.

1) You are still calling airdefence missiles offensive while difference is mostly range
2) No to all of your assumptions, since the TF100 is still non-existent and weapons pack have not even chosen yet
3) Again pure assumption, you can only compare the main tasks as the TF100 is meant for, namely multipurpose frigate. Older multipurpose frigates will be replaced by new generation multipurpose frigates, what don't you understand in this?