How the Profile Of Turkish LPD Is Going To Be?

[TeesraIndiotHunter]

Maybe 6-7 years after the everything is signed and ready.

So around 2022 to 2025...

Very late...

 

[-SINAN-]

There's two elevators on the Juan Carlos. One near the middle and one in the back. So far I have heard only about the middle one being covered up. That still leaves the back elevator.

Mate, aircraft will be loaded to runaway from rear elevator... take off....land and will be lowered garage from front elevator. I think it will be insanely hard to pull the aircraft for 200 meters to rear elevator and clear the pist for another landing.

Here in the brochure you can see that runaway is 202 meters long with a ski jump lets's say it will be 200 meters without one.

Can F-35B take off in 200 meters ? Also this version is 232 meters long whereas ours is 224 meters so if we deduce the difference.... it would be a 192 meters long runaway....

 

[LegionnairE]

@everyone, quit fantasizing.

The thing I forgot to add was "eventually". The problem with the whole situation is not budgetary, however, perception of certain neighbors and self-appointed guardians of the region. Therefore, it's going to be done in a drawn out schedule. Top brass wants it. They will have it. Eventually.

No way bro, it doesn't make sense. Juan Carlos isn't big enough to support a fighter squadron and still keep up with other operations. Wİthout ski-jump an F35B will take all of the flight deck to take off, or land. it'll disrupt everything. And the ship will be as crowded as an indian train. If I know anything about Turkish navy, they won't want it."

@Neptune, Same answer I gave to Hyperion, except for the yearly task groups our navy doesn't operate outside the range of our air force and our requirements are clear.

Is it not possible for our shipyards to modify the ship with a aircraft lift ? Navantia guys says "the forward aircraft elevator has been substituted by a hatch,"

Acquire the ship, substitute the hatch with an aircraft elevator ?

You just don't want to understand, that elevator is being removed because ski-jump is being removed, because we don't need them, because no fixed-wing aircraft will ever operate from this ship.

This is not an America class. This is a Hyuga class.
I'm just hoping that we can mount a RAM launcher on the bow where ski-jump ramp was standing before. Another RAM launcher to the stern and a VLS somewhere for ESSMs

@cabatli_53 you were wrong aswell, I told y'all so

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Here in the brochure you can see that runaway is 202 meters long with a ski jump lets's say it will be 200 meters without one.

Can F-35B take off in 200 meters ? Also this version is 232 meters long whereas ours is 224 meters so if we deduce the difference.... it would be a 192 meters long runaway....

The minimum runway needed for a max loaded F35B is 550-600 feet. So max loaded you would need to start all the way from the back. That video shows an F35B taking off well within 200 meters.

As for how are you going to get the plane back to the elevator...well at least it has wheels. I've seen Super Cobras on LHD's and they don't have wheels. So they must do something. And that problem with one elevator applies to them as well.

Edit: looks like they use tractors and put temporary dollies or something on the Super Cobras to move them around. I'm sure this isn't very convenient.

 

[Neptune]

Is it not possible for our shipyards to modify the ship with a aircraft lift ? Navantia guys says "the forward aircraft elevator has been substituted by a hatch,"

Acquire the ship, substitute the hatch with an aircraft elevator ?

As I said there's still a 6 month period for signatories and design. There will be changes on the ahip no doubt. Tme will tell.

 

[xxxKULxxx]

Using this ship without jets is something like you have a Ferrari and you limit yourself with 100 km/h speed... So i think no way our navy will put jets on this LHD sooner or later...

Secondly this website says with max. takeoff weight F-35B needs 167-168 meters...

http://planes.findthebest.com/q/176...Vertical-Landing-Variant-Jet-need-to-take-off

 

[-SINAN-]

ou just don't want to understand, that elevator is being removed because ski-jump is being removed, because we don't need them, because no fixed-wing aircraft will ever operate from this ship.

I'm have not insisted on anything..... i'm just running guesses.

Your point also don't make sense much.. Just tell me, is it virtually possible to operate at least 15 F-35Bs with out a ski jump and forward elevator ..?

 

[Neptune]

@everyone, quit fantasizing.


No way bro, it doesn't make sense. Juan Carlos isn't big enough to support a fighter squadron and still keep up with other operations. Wİthout ski-jump an F35B will take all of the flight deck to take off, or land. it'll disrupt everything. And the ship will be as crowded as an indian train. If I know anything about Turkish navy, they won't want it."

@Neptune, Same answer I gave to Hyperion, except for the yearly task groups our navy doesn't operate outside the range of our air force and our requirements are clear.

You just don't want to understand, that elevator is being removed because ski-jump is being removed, because we don't need them, because no fixed-wing aircraft will ever operate from this ship.

This is not an America class. This is a Hyuga class.
I'm just hoping that we can mount a RAM launcher on the bow where ski-jump ramp was standing before. Another RAM launcher to the stern and a VLS somewhere for ESSMs

@cabatli_53 you were wrong aswell, I told y'all so

Is the Cape of Good Hope within the range of HVKK bro? Even with IFR its not. If I too know a few things about the navy that they will acquire F35Bs. Not today. But consdering the time planned to commission the ship. DZKK will operate jets on the deck of TCG Levent no doubt.

 

[xxxKULxxx]

@isoo Look at 1st post of this thread posted by ozi200o... I will share link of it at the end of this post of mine... I don't know if it is the thing you were looking for... You asked for POD...

An info like that i came up with in ozi's post...

"Full Electric Propulsion 1 GT +2 DDGG with 2 x POD @ 11 MW"

Look at it.. Here...

How the Profile Of Turkish LPD Is Going To Be?

And can you share your thoughts about these infos. thinking that this is our ship's specs...

 

[LegionnairE]

Using this ship without jets is something like you have a Ferrari and you limit yourself with 100 km/h speed... So i think no way our navy will put jets on this LHD sooner or later...

it isn't that simple, Japan has Hyuga class, which is slightly larger than Juan Carlos but they don't even station ground units onboard. They use the platform strictly for ASW helicopters. Because they know what their requirements are and they are hardcore professionals.

Your point also don't make sense much.. Just tell me, is it virtually possible to operate at least 15 F-35Bs with out a ski jump and forward elevator ..?

I'm not saying it's not possible, but to make it possible you have to let go of some things and the navy wont do that. It's hard to explain "why" to a man whos sitting in a cafe in the corner but if you spent some time on ships you'll get it. Not every centimeter has to be filled with equipment. If you add an air-protection role to the ship it won't be able to do it's own job which is amphibious landing and logistical support.

I don't even wanna go in to the price of 15 F35Bs, which is almost half of the ship's cost. Mind that F35Bs are more costly than F35As not just during the procurement but also during maintenance and the whole life of the platform.

Is the Cape of Good Hope within the range of HVKK bro? Even with IFR its not. If I too know a few things about the navy that they will acquire F35Bs. Not today. But consdering the time planned to commission the ship. DZKK will operate jets on the deck of TCG Levent no doubt.

You're an average intelligence guy. You god damn well know that we have no interests in cape of good hope. Hell, it's not even as important to world's shipping as it was used to before opening of Suez canal. Showing our banner in blue seas is a good feeling for me too but your feet needs to touch the ground. The navy won't want a flight deck that's inoperable for helicopters and going to destroy an entire squadron in case it's sunk. They want a reliable platform that can support marines in Crimea, Cyprus, Greece, Crete, Syria, where our interests really lie.

And with all due respect, they should name it TCG Mustafa Kemal Atatürk... wtf is levent? pff

@Peter C
There's a good possibility that all of our AH1W Super Cobra aircraft will be transferred on board LHD. Because let's face it, they are much more useful in sea level then they are on mountains chasing insurgents.

 

[-SINAN-]

I'm not saying it's not possible, but to make it possible you have to let go of some things and the navy wont do that. It's hard to explain "why" to a man whos sitting in a cafe in the corner but if you spent some time on ships you'll get it. Not every centimeter has to be filled with equipment. If you add an air-protection role to the ship it won't be able to do it's own job which is amphibious landing and logistical support.
I don't even wanna go in to the price of 15 F35Bs, which is almost half of the ship's cost. Mind that F35Bs are more costly than F35As not just during the procurement but also during maintenance and the whole life of the platform

Your still not makin any point.... Aircraft will stay in first hangar, others will stay in the second hangar.. Forget what i said, how can other countries usr it for carrier while we can't because it only lacks a ski-jump ?

 

[LegionnairE]

Your still not makin any point.... Aircraft will stay in first hangar, others will stay in the second hangar.. Forget what i said, how can other countries usr it for carrier while we can't because it only lacks a ski-jump ?

You are asking the wrong question bro. Planes can take off without ski jump but they take off with less load and they burn more fuel in the process, causing shorter sorties and shorter range. The point is, that Ski jump is being removed because it's not going to be used, because there won't be fixed-wing aircraft stationed on our LHD, because we aren't USA, we are more like Japan. This LHD project isn't a part of our country's ambition to control the oceans, people in this fourm or rather people in our country, they like to fantasize. This ship will provide disaster relief, emergency evacuation, amphibious attacks. This ship will not provide air cover for a larger fleet.

And it's not just about space for the aircraft themselves. Jets use different fuel, different spare parts, different munitions. They take all of the flight deck to take off & land, interrupting helicopters. Which is bad, because once the project is finished there will be 3-4 types of helicopters stationed onboard.

If you look at Japan's Hyuga class, you'll understand what I mean.
Izumo class is even larger. It's not about the size, it's about the purpose.

 

[Worf]

@Neptune, @Sinan @MrTopal27 @olcayto
Wake up guys, no ski-jump and no elevator means no fixed-wing aircraft, no F35B or C. I kept saying this but people on this forum didn't give a shit.

THERE WILL NEVER BE FIGHTERS ON OUR LHD. quit discussing it already, What's important is that we have RAM and ESSM launchers on-board. They are vital for ship's defence.

I didn't say otherwise. In fact I was telling there wont be ski jump; I believe Navantias Twitter confirmed it very long ago. Too bad some Turkish posters can not see tweets now.

Is it not possible for our shipyards to modify the ship with a aircraft lift ? Navantia guys says "the forward aircraft elevator has been substituted by a hatch,"

Acquire the ship, substitute the hatch with an aircraft elevator ?

What kind of hatch? I'm asking because its too vague.

 

[-SINAN-]

I didn't say otherwise. In fact I was telling there wont be ski jump; I believe Navantias Twitter confirmed it very long ago. Too bad some Turkish posters can not see tweets now.


What kind of hatch? I'm asking because its too vague.

I don't know bro, just a hatch i guess.

 

[Bismarck]

If Turkey get full tech transfer, they can install ski jump easily, if it's needed.