I want to ask you; are you relating secularism to Islam?
I don't think Turkey is following Islam, neither do I think Pakistan is following true Islam.
I am not relating anything to anything. I realise this forum is for Turkish defence not Islamic theology but if people will please excuse I will air my thought's on this subject.
First and foremost I don't think any of us have the
right to judge another Muslim. The Mullah definitely does not. Until somebody comes along and gives a signed letter from god that proves he or she is god's agent on earth.
I think we have know what (Qur’an, Verse 2:256) reads “Let there be no compulsion in religion; truth stands out clearly from error…”
My view is religion is a
means to an end. Preaching of religion should have a effect, which should be that it leads to better humans and better society. If the effect of religion is - Society becomes even more evil or remains indifferant then you have to ask what has gone wrong.
There are two conclusions you can make,
a) That there is is something wrong with the
religion itself.
b) That there is something wrong with the way it is being
preached and
practiced.
It is my view that in Pakistan
b applies. All that effort at forcing religion down people's throats has not produced a ideal society. In fact from what my dad tell's me in the last 40 years Pakistani society has become violent, intolerant, fanatical.
Read the news everyday from Pakistan, all you get is chaos, mayhem. I think you already knew that despite external piousness the repulsive things are hasppening in Pakistan. I only saw that documentary by Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy 'Saving Face' or the story about that Fakhra Yunus who recently killed herself in Rome and I felt sickened to the core.
To many people measure Islam by the beard and the amount of head covered by women. That is just pathetic and childish. Nobody can really judge how good a muslim is, let alone a stupid survey. All we can do is to measure how well people
pretend they are Muslim.
The measues being pray five times a day, grow a bloody beard, cover up the women and hey presto you got the perfect Muslim. Surely being Muslim is more than that? So can we leave that to god to judge.
You want to measure how Muslim a country is? How about finding out their crime rates? How well they look after their poor? How well they look after their infirm and disabled? How safe are the women? How well fed the children are?
And Ray Kalm nobody is going to folow true Islam because that is subjective goal. We humans are imperfect so we will always fall short of our goal. Only in the after life will there be true Islam.
Targon
I don't care if the beach is busy your still a lucky person to live next to the Mediterranean. The last time I was there I got real sweat deal. I managed to sell my mobile, got a extra week because I managed to get an extention because my Turkish Doctor wrote a note to say I become ill. When I came back to UK, I got money from the Mobile Insurance Company and my Medical Insurance paid for the extra week. My employer could not complain about the extra time off.
That is what I call a dream holiday in Turkey
*Now let you guy's to go back to Turkish Defence matters.
but unfortunately, thats the crowded public beach I have to go somewhere else to swim 
