Turkish Politics & Internal Affairs

[AUz]

The majority of people are against it and satisfied with the current system that is all you need to know.

So why doesn't opposition and seculars allow for a referendum to put this issue to rest once for all?

Till yesterday nearly all the products that you use in Turkish Army were products of a Presidental Country since 1789 which has a GDP of 20 times more than Turkey. It is a clear success story.

Not to mention, China is also a Presidential system.

For fast growth and development, Presidential system seems much suited.

As I often say, secular Turks should not vehemently oppose a proposal just because its Erdogan's proposal. Look whats best for Turkey.

Information Valley's foundation, which will direct Turkey’s future, is being laid today. It's being expected an annual turnover of $50 billion from the valley.

Information Valley, which is being founded to boost Turkey’s competitive power in the global innovation and information technologies areas, will be built across 3 million sqm land in Kocaeli, Gebze. Stating that Information Valley is one of the Turkey’s giant projects, he said Information Valley will be one of the world’s most global addresses with regard to innovation and R&D. The valley will contain global innovation and technology transfer centres and prototype testing workshops. About 5.000 R&D companies will be situated in the valley together with almost 10.000 R&D employees. Information Valley will also provide housing for the employees, as well as production, service, employment and living centre with several suppliers and logistic firms.

The project was designed to involve a 1.5 million sqm closed area and a 1.250.000 sqm office area. There will also be social facilities in the valley including tennis, basketball and volleyball courts, football pitches and a golf course. Moreover, schools will also be built in the field for employees’ children.

When the project is realized, Turkey will be one of the most important centres with regard to information technology in the region. “Turkey, which has strategic position that unites Europe, the Far East, the Middle East and Africa, intends to boost its share in technological exports with products ‘Made in Turkey’ with the slogan of ‘Made from Turkey’ to provide goods based on its technology,” the minister said. Additionally he said with this initiative, it will be possible to make Information Valley into a catalyst for, technological growth, innovation and capital accumulation and development, as offering economic and social development model.

What is the time frame of this project? When will this valley be fully operational?

 

[-SINAN-]

So why doesn't opposition and seculars allow for a referendum to put this issue to rest once for all?



Not to mention, China is also a Presidential system.

For fast growth and development, Presidential system seems much suited.

As I often say, secular Turks should not vehemently oppose a proposal just because its Erdogan's proposal. Look whats best for Turkey.



What is the time frame of this project? When will this valley be fully operational?

You know private enterprises will be established in the area...it will be a continuously growing project...

But if we are talking about the "1.5 million sqm closed area"....that will take 2-3 years to build.

 

[xenon54 out]

So why doesn't opposition and seculars allow for a referendum to put this issue to rest once for all?



Not to mention, China is also a Presidential system.

For fast growth and development, Presidential system seems much suited.

As I often say, secular Turks should not vehemently oppose a proposal just because its Erdogan's proposal. Look whats best for Turkey.



What is the time frame of this project? When will this valley be fully operational?

It is not just because its Erdogan opposition, we are talking a man whos already autocratic enough, giving absolute power to him is a genious idea.

And noone is hindering a referandum, AKP already made one in the past but they arent making it now, i wonder why...

Besides Presidial system is not the only way to become developed at all...

 

[TurAr]

“İnsani gelişmişlikte ilk 20 ülkenin 16’sı parlamenter demokrasiyle, 2’si başkanlıkla yönetiliyor. Son 20'nin 15’inde ise başkanlık sistemi var.”

Başkanlık sistemi ve gelişmişlik arasındaki ilişki daha önce Cumhurbaşkanı Recep Tayyip Erdoğan’ın bir iddiasıyla da gündemimize gelmişti. Cumhurbaşkanı’nın iddiasına göre gelişmiş ülkelerin tamamına yakınında başkanlık sistemi vardı, ancak analizimiz bunun tam aksinin doğru olduğunu göstermişti.

“İnsani gelişmişlikte ilk 20 ülkenin 16’sı parlamenter demokrasiyle, 2’si başkanlıkla yönetiliyor. Son 20'nin 15’inde ise başkanlık sistemi var.” - Doğruluk Payı

 

[what]

There is no need for a referendum.
The AKP wants that dictatorial system and all other parties dont. The AKP will not get the majority, no chance.

and for who ever had that a bit stupid argument about how US has a presidentinal system and is succsessfull with it.
Look at Germany, no presidential system and unlike the US, Germany is exporting more than its importing all the key numbers are probably better, wheter its debt or income.

 

[damm1t]

“İnsani gelişmişlikte ilk 20 ülkenin 16’sı parlamenter demokrasiyle, 2’si başkanlıkla yönetiliyor. Son 20'nin 15’inde ise başkanlık sistemi var.”

Başkanlık sistemi ve gelişmişlik arasındaki ilişki daha önce Cumhurbaşkanı Recep Tayyip Erdoğan’ın bir iddiasıyla da gündemimize gelmişti. Cumhurbaşkanı’nın iddiasına göre gelişmiş ülkelerin tamamına yakınında başkanlık sistemi vardı, ancak analizimiz bunun tam aksinin doğru olduğunu göstermişti.

“İnsani gelişmişlikte ilk 20 ülkenin 16’sı parlamenter demokrasiyle, 2’si başkanlıkla yönetiliyor. Son 20'nin 15’inde ise başkanlık sistemi var.” - Doğruluk Payı

This list is another story and much more difficult to reach for us unfortunately, what Erdoğan mention is top 10 economies in the world. He loves power and economy = power. Countries like Usa, China, Russia, France, Brasil. If you ask me I would like to have a country like Norway instead of Usa..

 

[telkon]

Believe it or not, Presidential system is best for Turkey and its sustainable, long-term development. Period.

whoa, hold your horses cowboy

 

[Nefer]

This list is another story and much more difficult to reach for us unfortunately, what Erdoğan mention is top 10 economies in the world. He loves power and economy = power. Countries like Usa, China, Russia, France, Brasil. If you ask me I would like to have a country like Norway instead of Usa..

Norway, one of the most expensive countries in europe, where people go to sweden to do all their groceries.

 

[TurAr]

This list is another story and much more difficult to reach for us unfortunately, what Erdoğan mention is top 10 economies in the world. He loves power and economy = power. Countries like Usa, China, Russia, France, Brasil.

Unfortunately at this point, it isn't about reaching the top 20 but it is about avoiding the bottom 20 because of the guy's endless thirst for unlimited power. I mean we are daily watching a president who is supposed to represent integrity of the state and solidarity of the people, bashing opposition by saying the most outrageous things. The level of his ego has become too dangerous for this country to endure anymore IMO. Nobody can hold him now. Under an alaturca presidential system... I don't even wanna think that. It would be a disaster for this nation.

If you ask me I would like to have a country like Norway instead of Usa..

Agreed. Not even a question.

 

[FutureMe]

We want presidential system. We don't want to be a sissy nation. We want to rule, not be ruled.

 

[Yellow-place]

There is no need for a referendum.
The AKP wants that dictatorial system and all other parties dont. The AKP will not get the majority, no chance.

and for who ever had that a bit stupid argument about how US has a presidentinal system and is succsessfull with it.
Look at Germany, no presidential system and unlike the US, Germany is exporting more than its importing all the key numbers are probably better, wheter its debt or income.

Yeah, it was also like that during the WW2.

 

[Inspector Spacetime]

Unfortunately at this point, it isn't about reaching the top 20 but it is about avoiding the bottom 20 because of the guy's endless thirst for unlimited power. I mean we are daily watching a president who is supposed to represent integrity of the state and solidarity of the people, bashing opposition by saying the most outrageous things. The level of his ego has become too dangerous for this country to endure anymore IMO. Nobody can hold him now. Under an alaturca presidential system... I don't even wanna think that. It would be a disaster for this nation.



Agreed. Not even a question.

Turkish politics is all about bashing one another. Erdogan is no different, neither are any of the opposition party's. What's worse, they are fear mongering their own constituents by doing that. Your sentence: 'it would be a disaster for this nation' is a fine example of that. I can imagine one could come to that kind of conclusion if he keeps hearing 'dictator this, dictator that' from any of the anti-government/pro-opposition propaganda machine's in the country. All the well known political party's are guilty of doing this in Turkey btw, not just CHP, AKP or whatever.

What has hurt Turkey the most, throughout it's history, are coalition governments. The political party's are so different from each other, that they aren't able to work together in case of a coalition. AKP's solution for avoiding coalitions in the future is a presidential system, and I am not blaming them for it.

The opposition party's aren't exactly bringing anything to the table here either. They are just fear mongering claiming dictatorship. What they instead should do is come up with idea's of their own, on for example how to avoid coalition governments. Because that is the main motivation behind the presidential system in the first place.

I live in Holland (born and raised), and we here have a parliamentary system. The political parties are different obviously, but are still able to work together during coalitions, because they argue about arguments at hand. Unlike Turkey, where they sling mud at each other continually. But even now, you could still argue about the efficiency of the parliamentary system (more specifically, coalition governments) in the Netherlands. I remember in Belgium, they weren't able to form a government for almost a year, because political party's couldn't get to an agreement.

 

[TurAr]

Turkish politics is all about bashing one another. Erdogan is no different, neither are any of the opposition party's. What's worse, they are fear mongering their own constituents by doing that. Your sentence: 'it would be a disaster for this nation' is a fine example of that. I can imagine one could come to that kind of conclusion if he keeps hearing 'dictator this, dictator that' from any of the anti-government/pro-opposition propaganda machine's in the country. All the well known political party's are guilty of doing this in Turkey btw, not just CHP, AKP or whatever.

What has hurt Turkey the most, throughout it's history, are coalition governments. The political party's are so different from each other, that they aren't able to work together in case of a coalition. AKP's solution for avoiding coalitions in the future is a presidential system, and I am not blaming them for it.

The opposition party's aren't exactly bringing anything to the table here either. They are just fear mongering claiming dictatorship. What they instead should do is come up with idea's of their own, on for example how to avoid coalition governments. Because that is the main motivation behind the presidential system in the first place.

I live in Holland (born and raised), and we here have a parliamentary system. The political parties are different obviously, but are still able to work together during coalitions, because they argue about arguments at hand. Unlike Turkey, where they sling mud at each other continually. But even now, you could still argue about the efficiency of the parliamentary system (more specifically, coalition governments) in the Netherlands. I remember in Belgium, they weren't able to form a government for almost a year, because political party's couldn't get to an agreement.

There has not been a single politician in the history of the Republic who breaks the oaths, rules and laws so frequently, so daringly and so openly as the President Erdogan. The division created by the President (who ironically was supposed to promote unity) between "us" and "them" has never been as sharp as it is now in the history of the Republic except during the left-right clashes which ended up with a coup more than 3 decades ago. An Alaturca Presidential System would only deepen the division and the result would indeed be a disaster. Unlike some, I don't form my opinions from merely "hearing things" but I do my own research. You don't need to be exposed to that "opposition propaganda machine" to see the ever growing dictatorial tendencies of the President. Especially these days it is so vivid that one needs to be either blind, ignorant, fanatic or have a different agenda to refuse its existence.

You are right about the lack of quality in the Turkish politics, about the cheap talks and all the populist garbage. But when I look at their election programs and their recent rhetoric, without an exception all three of the opposition parties; CHP, MHP and HDP have been improved a lot! All three of which have mostly gone beyond merely bashing the government and doing nothing else. Now they started to produce new ideas and solutions while AKP under Davutoglu and Erdogan, and their media still uses the the most outrageous lies and slanders to undermine opposition. So saying that the opposition parties aren't bringing anything to the table simply is not the truth but a reflection of bias.

If it is too bad in Holland come and live in the motherland then buddy. The problem is, he ALREADY have way too many powers. There is currently no institution in the country to control him and you are talking about bringing an abomination called an Alaturca Presidential System without any checks and balances by giving examples from Netherlands They are doing fine mate, don't worry about them.

 

[Inspector Spacetime]

There has not been a single politician in the history of the Republic who breaks the oaths, rules and laws so frequently, so daringly and so openly as the President Erdogan. The division created by the President (who ironically was supposed to promote unity) between "us" and "them" has never been as sharp as it is now in the history of the Republic except during the left-right clashes which ended up with a coup more than 3 decades ago. An Alaturca Presidential System would only deepen the division and the result would indeed be a disaster. Unlike some, I don't form my opinions from merely "hearing things" but I do my own research. You don't need to be exposed to that "opposition propaganda machine" to see the ever growing dictatorial tendencies of the President. Especially these days it is so vivid that one needs to be either blind, ignorant, fanatic or have a different agenda to refuse its existence.

The division isn't caused only by Erdogan. And yes, I AM critical of Erdogan's rhetoric, but not just his. Most of Turkey's politicians have a similar rhetoric. So it would be unfair to only single Erdogan out in this case. For instance CHP's tv commercial: "Cumhuriyet'e, Laiklige (vesayre) zulum eden malum zihniyeti, protesto amacli alkisliyoruz. Gelin oy verin, gitsinler." This is just pure polarization, alienating (in this case) AKP, as if they are an evil entity. This is by the way just one example, not trying to single out CHP or anything. Like I said they are all doing it, and it needs to change.

The division/polarization by the way is caused by Turkish politics in general, and it isn't new at all. This rift was always there. Even before Erdogan was president, or prime-minister even. In 2010 for instance Gul was boo'd during Basketball finals. Gul's rhetoric is actually on a desired level, but despite that he was hated.

By the way, you can actually blame Erdogan's rhetoric for the polarization. But pro-Erdogan people can actually blame opposition's rhetoric for the polarization in Turkey. And to be honest, both of these camps are right. What needs to happen is, politicians need to become responsible in the way they talk and conduct themselves, and be aware that their actions reflect on the people.

You are right about the lack of quality in the Turkish politics, about the cheap talks and all the populist garbage. But when I look at their election programs and their recent rhetoric, without an exception all three of the opposition parties; CHP, MHP and HDP have been improved a lot! All three of which have mostly gone beyond merely bashing the government and doing nothing else. Now they started to produce new ideas and solutions while AKP under Davutoglu and Erdogan, and their media still uses the the most outrageous lies and slanders to undermine opposition. So saying that the opposition parties aren't bringing anything to the table simply is not the truth but a reflection of bias.

The only improvement I have seen, came for CHP, and that was in the form of 'central Turkey' project from a few days ago. The others not so much. However, I am not claiming that they haven't improved, this is just based on from what seen so far from their meetings and such. I must confess I haven't come across much of MHP's meetings though.

Also, I didn't say in my previous post that the opposition party's aren't bringing much to the table (even though I am stating it in the previous paragraph). I did say that they didn't come with their own idea's when it comes to the whole presidential issue. The slander thing, comes from all parties btw. Exactly what I was trying to say in my previous post.

If it is too bad in Holland come and live in the motherland then buddy. The problem is, he ALREADY have way too many powers. There is currently no institution in the country to control him and you are talking about bringing an abomination called an Alaturca Presidential System without any checks and balances by giving examples from Netherlands They are doing fine mate, don't worry about them.

I never said it was bad to live in Holland, and I might live in Turkey, you never know. I said, despite the quality of Dutch politics and politicians, you can still argue about the efficiency about parliamentary system in Netherlands. And yea, Turkey is currently doing fine. But what will happen when another coalition comes? Judging from past experiences and the way all political party's interact with each other, it won't be anything good. And AKP is trying to find a solution for this, and their solution is presidential system. Which I don't blame. The opposition should do themselves a favor and come up with their own solutions regarding this topic, instead of just claiming dictatorship and what not.

Nice thread !
@Inspector Spacetime Community fan ???

Yeah, lol.

 

[Bubblegum Crisis]

...

And yea, Turkey is currently doing fine. But what will happen when another coalition comes? Judging from past experiences and the way all political party's interact with each other, it won't be anything good. And AKP is trying to find a solution for this, and their solution is presidential system. Which I don't blame. The opposition should do themselves a favor and come up with their own solutions regarding this topic, instead of just claiming dictatorship and what not.

...

Pointless, they do not reflect that you tell them. What they want it is only blood like Plebs in rome Colosseum, bread and blood (or also soccer). Finally our human specie has still not civilized, democracy or not.

...