Turkish Politics & Internal Affairs

[xenon54 out]

Yes....yes !

Soon we will see Sultan Erdogan at the helm !

I'd get to be his Grand Vizer !

And we make a second revolution against tyrants.

Whilst @T-123456 can be his Valide Sultan !

 

[Bahoz]

You asked, i replied. Simple as that. This is how i feel.

Love it or leave it. That's my aproach.

Fair. But do you agree that it is contradictory?

On one hand you say you love your country and that you would do anything for it. On the other hand you carry the mentality that got Turkey bankrupt and destroyed much of the land from 1920-2000.

 

[what]

What is your guys opinion on the new party HDP? Many predict that they will take away an average portion of the CHP votes across the country but especially in Istanbul.

So if we are to take the sentimental approach then there is no end to this. As much as you love that flag, you will also find other people ( Turks, Kurds, Laz) who hate it.

Thats my problem right there. I know Laz, Kurds, Armenians and the only persons I have met you really hated being called Turk oder that they're from Turkey are the Kurds (not all, but many). There is a guy I know who hangs out with us from time to time, he is really cool guy really good manners. But he has this big *** Kurdistan tattoo on his arm with a map of Kurdistan.

I get sick when I see it, how am I supposed to respect someone who is building walls instead of bridges?


Sometimes I feel like it would be the best to deport anyone who is a separatist to North Iraq (and while we're at it certain people to Saudi Arabia) and continue building a peaceful and prosperous Turkey with everyone else.

 

[-SINAN-]

Fair. But do you agree that it is contradictory?

On one hand you say you love your country and that you would do anything for it. On the other hand you carry the mentality that got Turkey bankrupt and destroyed much of the land from 1920-2000.

I don't think that's the real problem. Coups, Leftist-Rights fight, Bad management there were a lot of sources for the problems you mentioned.

 

[T-123456]

Thats my problem right there. I know Laz, Kurds, Armenians and the only persons I have met you really hated being called Turk oder that they're from Turkey are the Kurds (not all, but many). There is a guy I know who hangs out with us from time to time, he is really cool guy really good manners. But he has this big *** Kurdistan tattoo on his arm with a map of Kurdistan.

I get sick when I see it, how am I supposed to respect someone who is building walls instead of bridges?


Sometimes I feel like it would be the best to deport anyone who is a separatist to North Iraq (and while we're at it certain people to Saudi Arabia) and continue building a peaceful and prosperous Turkey with everyone else.

Your city(koln) is a Mekka for PKK supporters,but as long as he doesnt start about politics it should not be a problem.
I have such ''friends'' to but they would never dare to start about it.
They allways say we hate the government(only way out).

 

[Bahoz]

Thats my problem right there. I know Laz, Kurds, Armenians and the only persons I have met you really hated being called Turk oder that they're from Turkey are the Kurds (not all, but many). There is a guy I know who hangs out with us from time to time, he is really cool guy really good manners. But he has this big *** Kurdistan tattoo on his arm with a map of Kurdistan.

I get sick when I see it, how am I supposed to respect someone who is building walls instead of bridges?


Sometimes I feel like it would be the best to deport anyone who is a separatist to North Iraq (and while we're at it certain people to Saudi Arabia) and continue building a peaceful and prosperous Turkey with everyone else.

Please, there is no need to start with this. You say I am the only one you know. Fair enough, but the numbers speak for themselves. The votes are there, the celebrations with massive gatherings are there. Also I do not hate Turkey. I hate its government. And until the government does not change its attitude towards Kurds, how am I supposed to wave the Turkish flag?

Also, you talk about building bridges. What have you done to build a bridge between Kurds and Turks? Did you ever protest when Kurdish was banned? I honestly feel like Kurds fought a battle all at their own. Majority of Turks never stood by our sides back in the days. They still do not. But since there are still some Turks left who try to build bridges ( Ismail Besikci and Sirri Sureya Onder ie) I still believe in brotherhood.

 

[what]

Please, there is no need to start with this. You say I am the only one you know. Fair enough, but the numbers speak for themselves. The votes are there, the celebrations with massive gatherings are there. Also I do not hate Turkey. I hate its government. And until the government does not change its attitude towards Kurds, how am I supposed to wave the Turkish flag?

Also, you talk about building bridges. What have you done to build a bridge between Kurds and Turks? Did you ever protest when Kurdish was banned? I honestly feel like Kurds fought a battle all at their own. Majority of Turks never stood by our sides back in the days. They still do not. But since there are still some Turks left who try to build bridges ( Ismail Besikci and Sirri Sureya Onder ie) I still believe in brotherhood.

You overestimated my age.

I can say that I never tore down and bridges, I have never treated a Kurd different. What else can I do?
I can not join a demonstration for Kurdish rights where pictures of terrorist leader Öcalan are all over the place. You want Turks to support you? Face the truth, the PKK is a terrorist organization that is responsible with thousands of dead people. As long as you won't accept this and stop worshipping him, you will not get any support from the rest of Turkey.

 

[Bahoz]

You overestimated my age.

I can say that I never tore down and bridges, I have never treated a Kurd different. What else can I do?
I can not join a demonstration for Kurdish rights where pictures of terrorist leader Öcalan are all over the place. You want Turks to support you? Face the truth, the PKK is a terrorist organization that is responsible with thousands of dead people. As long as you won't accept this and stop worshipping him, you will not get any support from the rest of Turkey.

So, start your own demonstration. Wave the Turkish flag, have signs that read in Kurdish and demand that Kurdish should be an institutional language ( not official state language, but instutitonal, there is a difference). Demand that Kurds and Turks are treated equally. Give Kurds a reason to love the flag. If for instance Turks had risen up after 1980 coup. If Turks had risen up and had said that Kurds should have their language rights and should have the right to gather and do cultural activities etc. then there would be no need for PKK.

But now you want me to declare that PKK is a terrorist organisation. How do you want me to do that? When I was a kid, the only people that stood up for Kurdish rights were PKK. When I turned on Turkish tv, I would see ALL Turkish partys claiming things such as '' Kurds do not exist'' , '' Kurdish is not a language'' , you know the rest of the story. Then PKK came and suddenly Kurds were aknowledged, Kurdish was a free language to use etc.

But again, if it had been Turks, and not PKK, that had stood up for Kurdish rights, there would be no need for PKK. But you fail to realise this. Instead, you want to force me to say that the ones who preserved my identity as a Kurd and defended it with their lives are terrorists. It would actually equal me , forcing you to say Ataturk is a terrorist right after the liberation of Turkey in and the preservation of the Turkish borders and language in 1923.

 

[what]

Bahoz the same can be said about Kurds, why the hell don't you demonstrate without any PKK stuff, so Turks might join your demonstrations? And just for the record they do, as T-123 said we have a shi.tload of PKK fanboys in Cologne and many very-far left Turks join them in their demonstrations.

So you see that argument is easily adaptable for both sides.
I was not old enough to witness what you're saying in your 3rd paragraph but I believe that we have to move on and I'd like to mention that the AKP gave Kurds numerous rights, but all I can see is still complaining and more complaining.

Let me ask you a question: what is it that you don't like about the current laws in Turkey? Is there any discrimination?


You want your rights, nothing wrong with that. You're demanding autonomy, you're not getting it.


For the last paragraph:
Öcalan is/was the leader of a organization that has on purpose attacked and killed civillians. It has attacked marriages, government buildings and schools. It has taken teachers FUKING TEACHERS that are there to help as hostages. And - it gets even scummier - lets not forget the suicide in Istanbul.

How can you even compare him to Atatürk, who has fought to liberate his country from invaders. A Man who made no difference between a Turk or a Kurd? I'm pretty sure your Apo does not say or feel the same towards Turks.

Your city(koln) is a Mekka for PKK supporters,but as long as he doesnt start about politics it should not be a problem.
I have such ''friends'' to but they would never dare to start about it.
They allways say we hate the government(only way out).

I hate the government too, but that map is offensive to me. Its like and insult to me.

 

[Bahoz]

But you see, you are according this approach '' The problems started with PKK'' which is not true. From 1980 to 2013 some 50.000 people were killed. Prior to that ( and prior to PKK existance) at least the double of that amount was killed plus an unknown number of people killed in the military coups. Plus the thousands of people killed in extrajudicial killings by MIT and Hizbullah. Those numbers still increase day by day. So the oppression of minority groups existed prior to PKK. The problems were not created by PKK or with the immergence of PKK. They were always there. Which leads me to my point; PKK did not have to exist. If Turks truly cared about all the victims, they would not have let this conflict happen. They would have taken actions by themselves and stood by their '' Kurdish brethren''. After all, we are brethen, right?

So your approach is a failed approach. Everything points at the direction that without PKK, Kurds would still remain as mountain Turks and the language Kurdish would not exist in Turkey. The Kurdish awareness rose with PKK. Not just in Turkey but also in Europe and the rest of Middle East.

 

[xxxKULxxx]

But you see, you are according this approach '' The problems started with PKK'' which is not true. From 1980 to 2013 some 50.000 people were killed. Prior to that ( and prior to PKK existance) at least the double of that amount was killed plus an unknown number of people killed in the military coups. Plus the thousands of people killed in extrajudicial killings by MIT and Hizbullah. Those numbers still increase day by day. So the oppression of minority groups existed prior to PKK. The problems were not created by PKK or with the immergence of PKK. They were always there. Which leads me to my point; PKK did not have to exist. If Turks truly cared about all the victims, they would not have let this conflict happen. They would have taken actions by themselves and stood by their '' Kurdish brethren''. After all, we are brethen, right?

So your approach is a failed approach. Everything points at the direction that without PKK, Kurds would still remain as mountain Turks and the language Kurdish would not exist in Turkey. The Kurdish awareness rose with PKK. Not just in Turkey but also in Europe and the rest of Middle East.

You think wrong. Not only you but also muslims of Türkiye suffered from kemalist racist regime for tens of years. But now things are getting normal with AK Parti. When you look past of Türkiye you can see good PMs like Turgut Özal but he and some other PMs had not enough power to make their way come true. Because system was in hands of kemalists, jews, west. I think you have some knowledge about DARBEs in this country. There are much more things but DARBEs are top level of this issue. So they always tried to cause a problem inside our country and they tried to use differences between people in this country like satan does always. Türk-Kürt, Leftist-Rightist, Alevi-Sunni. These are all satanic games of these pple who are enemy of us all (Türk, Kürt, Leftist, Rightist,Alevi Sunni etc.). Because they always wanted to keep these 'fitne' alive to keep Türkiye as ill country all time. So Bahoz you have no right to blame Turkish public because of that. You should blame real enemies behind the curtain. If you look carefuly you can see we as muslims have suffered so many long time. There was no problem between Türks and Kürds, Lazs, Boşnaks etc... But these people i counted created this so called problem, i say so called because there were no problem between Türks and Kürds. Also you shouldn't think pkk achieved a success. Because if Erdoğan was not in power you would see that these clashes was continuing. Because they feed themselves from that clashes, from dead people and that's how they were keeping Türkiye under control. You should feel shame about pkk IMO. Because they killed so many also because of them Kürds died in huge numbers. Now you should look future after all. Türkish public who has no problem with Kürds, taking control of goverment for the first time in Türkiye's history step by step. We are getting rid of these kind of people, we are sending them to jails like Ergenekon, Balyoz. Because of hidden enemies whom i talked about, pkk killed thousands of innocent, young Türkish people. Also they caused death of thousands of people from Kürdish side too. You shouldn't be proud of them IMO... You are rigth about speaking your mother tongue etc. but ;
1- Türkish people didn't do that to you. I told who did. I mean to ban Kurdish,your music, culture tc.
2- Killing innocent people who had no wrong on this issue, hasn't got any explanation.
3- As a reply to these devils wrong it's no acceptable to 'kill'

You say pkk made Kürds known but you are wrong. We knew eachother for a thousand year. So i again advice you to seperate Türks who has nothing against you and the ones who tries to make surgeries in this country, real enemies of all of us. Be careful, they are behind the curtain. Not only you but whole country suffered because of them. İnshaAllah things will be good in the future...

 

[Kartal]

So, start your own demonstration. Wave the Turkish flag, have signs that read in Kurdish and demand that Kurdish should be an institutional language ( not official state language, but instutitonal, there is a difference). Demand that Kurds and Turks are treated equally. Give Kurds a reason to love the flag. If for instance Turks had risen up after 1980 coup. If Turks had risen up and had said that Kurds should have their language rights and should have the right to gather and do cultural activities etc. then there would be no need for PKK.

But now you want me to declare that PKK is a terrorist organisation. How do you want me to do that? When I was a kid, the only people that stood up for Kurdish rights were PKK. When I turned on Turkish tv, I would see ALL Turkish partys claiming things such as '' Kurds do not exist'' , '' Kurdish is not a language'' , you know the rest of the story. Then PKK came and suddenly Kurds were aknowledged, Kurdish was a free language to use etc.

But again, if it had been Turks, and not PKK, that had stood up for Kurdish rights, there would be no need for PKK. But you fail to realise this. Instead, you want to force me to say that the ones who preserved my identity as a Kurd and defended it with their lives are terrorists. It would actually equal me , forcing you to say Ataturk is a terrorist right after the liberation of Turkey in and the preservation of the Turkish borders and language in 1923.

Yes numbers are clear PKK votes 5 percent againist 95. You dont need to call PKK Terroist organization it is already Internationally Recognized Terroist organization.

 

[Bahoz]

@xxxKULxxx

Actually I am not blaming Turkish people. Some of the other members were blaming Kurdish people for supporting PKK and I replied that supporting PKK was the only other option because Turkey did not give any alternative. We know that the Kurdish political way has been shut down time after time so of course people will think that PKK is the only way if democratic ways are shut off.

And yes, the Kemalist republic was racist towards many things. I have not denied that. But the denialist policies it led against Kurds was extensive. It had one purpose and that was to destroy the Kurdish identity ( banning everything Kurdish). They had no plan of destroying Turkishness or Islam so you can not compare Kurds and Turks under Kemalist rule.

This is why Im saying that if Turks had stood supportive towards Kurds during those denialist and racist years then there would be no need of the Kurdish- Turkish conflict that began in 1980. I am not blaming Turks I am just giving an idea of how we could have prevented all the deaths.

Yes numbers are clear PKK votes 5 percent againist 95. You dont need to call PKK Terroist organization it is already Internationally Recognized Terroist organization.

BDP gets majority of Kurdish votes so I am not sure what you mean.

 

[ELTurco]

The Laz are a very small minority but some people mistake them for Karadeniz Turkleri, these guys are 0,03% of black sea region the rest of people are Karadeniz Turkleri, Trabzon, Rize etc ..

 

[ELTurco]

Turkey seeks $100 billion trade volume with Russia by 2020

22 November 2013 /TODAY'S ZAMAN, İSTANBUL
Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has said Turkey is planning to increase its trade volume with Russia to $100 billion by 2020, an ambitious goal part that is part of Ankara's bid to be ranked among the world's 10 largest economies.

Erdoğan said ahead of a Turkey-Russia High-Level Cooperation Council (ÜDİK) meeting in the Russian city of St. Petersburg on Friday that relations between the two nations are at an excellent level and that officials from both have sought ways to further advance economic and political ties.

Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu, Energy Minister Taner Yıldız, Economy Minister Zafer Çağlayan, Transportation Minister Binali Yıldırım and Culture and Tourism Minister Ömer Çelik are participating in the summit. Noting that military, commercial and economic relations with Russia are improving, Erdoğan said they plan to reach a trade volume of $100 billion by 2020 from the current $35 billion. He added that thanks to efforts by politicians and the contributions of entrepreneurs, Turkey can achieve this goal.

Trade volume between Russia and Turkey was slightly more than $5 billion a decade ago, and it has seen exponential growth every year. In a joint news conference with Russian President Vladimir Putin on Friday, Erdoğan confirmed his earlier remarks on the 2020 trade volume goal and said there is no barrier to accomplishing that target despite a slight drop in trade volume in the first nine months of this year. During the news conference, Putin said the number of Russian tourists who visited Turkey last year was 3.6 million and that he discussed ways to increase this number to 4 million. Erdoğan said that the number of Russian tourists to visit Turkey annually will reach 4 million and that he thinks the number of Turkish tourists to visit Russia may also increase as a result of Russian cultural events in Turkey. He added that Ankara is ready to lend any type of support to Moscow's plan to build a cultural center in Ankara. He said Turkey also has plans to open a cultural center, to be called the Yunus Emre Institute, in Moscow.

According to Erdoğan, bilateral relations are advancing better than the year before, and the two leaders discussed ways to improve ties. He praised Turkish investors in Russia, which he said are currently undertaking work worth $50 billion, particularly in the construction sector. Erdoğan attached particular importance on the energy cooperation and hailed Russia for constructing Turkey's first nuclear plant. He said the commercial ties in the field of finance with mutual investments are also noteworthy. The sub-committees of ÜDİK -- the Joint Strategic Planning Group, co-chaired by Davutoğlu and his Russian counterpart, Sergey Lavrov, and the Russia-Turkey Intergovernmental Joint Economic Commission, co-chaired by Yıldız and Russian Minister of Energy Alexander Novak -- held preparation meetings before the summit.

Putin and Erdoğan also had a bilateral meeting before one they attended with their delegations. Putin said that Turkish-Russian relations are moving forward at a “nice pace” despite a lack of direct engagement. He noted that Friday's meeting will not halt this progress and added that their goal is to contribute to the already fast-moving progress in relations.

Turkey and Russia have been at odds over the Syrian crisis, with Ankara leading calls for Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's departure and Moscow favoring an Assad-led transition.


Turkey seeks $100 billion trade volume with Russia by 2020 - Today's Zaman, your gateway to Turkish daily news