Turkish Politics & Internal Affairs

[Bismarck]

I heard hakan fidan fired

Your intelligence service chief?

 

[Solomon2]

- NO INTERNATIONAL COURT has ever designated these tragic events as "genocide" as of today...The British convened the Malta Tribunals (1919-1921) to try 144 Ottoman officials for alleged crimes against armenians after WWI. ALL of the accused were acquitted...

I don't think "acquitted" is the right word. The Malta proceedings were halted due to lack of documentary evidence: Turks testified that documents were "stolen" from military archives.

However, I wonder if they were looking in the wrong places for evidence, since I read an account that the orders regarding the Armenians were handled through the parallel civil government, rather than through the military command.

There's no question that millions of Armenians died. There's no question that the Ottomans claimed credit for this - the core of the Ottoman argument to U.S. diplomats that U.S. life insurance companies who wrote policies for Armenians should pay the Ottoman government the proceeds was that the Ottoman had made sure there were no survivors: link. But the proof of who ordered what to whom was not uncovered and that halted prosecutions of the accused.

 

[xenon54 out]

I don't think "acquitted" is the right word. The Malta proceedings were halted due to lack of documentary evidence: Turks testified that documents were "stolen" from military archives.

However, I wonder if they were looking in the wrong places for evidence, since I read an account that the orders regarding the Armenians were handled through the parallel civil government, rather than through the military command.

There's no question that millions of Armenians died. There's no question that the Ottomans claimed credit for this - the core of the Ottoman argument to U.S. diplomats that U.S. life insurance companies who wrote policies for Armenians should pay the Ottoman government the proceeds was that the Ottoman had made sure there were no survivors: link. But the proof of who ordered what to whom was not uncovered and that halted prosecutions of the accused.

Oh god not this life insurance BS again, how many Armenians made life insurance on American companies? And why would Ottoman goverment get the money anyway?

Armenian militias tried to use the opportunity to rise up when Ottomans were being attacked on all fronts and got defeated.
Another fact is also that Kurds and Armenians were fighting eachother for territorial gains, a lot Kurdish villages today are ex Armenian villages just like whats happening in Syria and Iraq today but this is something that the west is dead silent about which also shows their hypocracy about the whole issue.

 

[Solomon2]

Oh god not this life insurance BS again, how many Armenians made life insurance on American companies? And why would Ottoman goverment get the money anyway?

It's not "BS". Under the principle of escheat, the property of people who die without heirs or a will is transferred to the state.

 

[xenon54 out]

It's not "BS". Under the principle of escheat, the property of people who die without heirs or a will is transferred to the state.

Still, how much was the total number of people who had a insurance on a American institution that it was worth a ''genocide''?

 

[Solomon2]

Still, how much was the total number of people who had a insurance on a American institution that it was worth a ''genocide''?

You are the first person I've heard suggest that collecting Armenians' life insurance was the possible motivation for the Ottomans to kill them.

 

[xenon54 out]

You are the first person I've heard suggest that collecting Armenians' life insurance was the possible motivation for the Ottomans to kill them.

Huh? Didnt you just post about it?

 

[XILLAX]

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

http://www.ataa.org/reference/ermenisoykirimiddiasi.pdf


The link is for those who care honour of their past and anscestors and therefore want to prove it is only relocation of Ottoman armenians.

The document is written in Turkish and by Dr.Şükrü M. Elekdağ (Retired Ambassador)

--------------------------0-----------------------

What happened is proven on the website with documents written in 4 languages (Turkish, French, English, German):

http://talatpasa1915.com/tr/

 

[Oublious]

HurShit siktir git lan mal mal hikayelerinle la ahahahaha

Mete goruyounmu leeeynnn?


Forumun aqm anliyon mu?

 

[Solomon2]

The link is for those who care honour of their past and anscestors and therefore want to prove it is only relocation of Ottoman armenians.

I'm not sure you want to use this. The crux of its argument is that in the absence of documentation proving genocidal intentions it has to be assumed Ottoman intentions were good. Yet proof of Ottoman ill-will towards Armenians is available from diplomatic, Turkish, and German military accounts, whereas proof of good intentions - like building new housing for relocated Armenians and having provisions and clothing available for their forced marches - is lacking.

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

I'm not sure you want to use this. The crux of its argument is that in the absence of documentation proving genocidal intentions it has to be assumed Ottoman intentions were good. Yet proof of Ottoman ill-will towards Armenians is available from diplomatic, Turkish, and German military accounts, whereas proof of good intentions - like building new housing for relocated Armenians and having provisions and clothing available for their forced marches - is lacking.

Genocide is a legal term, therefore there has to be legal evidences, and proofs to back it up; at the same time this term was started to be used in 1940s, thus no legal term in law means no crime; if any one rejects this, then the whole world has to start to judge the human history for each new legal terms used in todays world.

Relocation was not a crime.

 

[Yatağanlı]

I don't think "acquitted" is the right word. The Malta proceedings were halted due to lack of documentary evidence: Turks testified that documents were "stolen" from military archives.

However, I wonder if they were looking in the wrong places for evidence, since I read an account that the orders regarding the Armenians were handled through the parallel civil government, rather than through the military command.

There's no question that millions of Armenians died. There's no question that the Ottomans claimed credit for this - the core of the Ottoman argument to U.S. diplomats that U.S. life insurance companies who wrote policies for Armenians should pay the Ottoman government the proceeds was that the Ottoman had made sure there were no survivors: link. But the proof of who ordered what to whom was not uncovered and that halted prosecutions of the accused.

It is true that hundreds of thousands of innocent Armenians suffered under Ottoman flag. But called it millions is factually wrong. There were 1.5 million Armenians in ottoman Turkey by 1914. In 1922 this was 360 thousand. French, Russian and English authorities counted 850 thousand Armenian refugees. This means than 400 thousand Armenians died. In the same years, 2 million Muslims died. Everyone suffered, all big parties did horrible things. I think everybody must recognize that and mourn their dead together. But this genocide thing is still based on too much rumour and hear say, instead of facts.

 

[Timur]

It is true that hundreds of thousands of innocent Armenians suffered under Ottoman flag. But called it millions is factually wrong. There were 1.5 million Armenians in ottoman Turkey by 1914. In 1922 this was 360 thousand. French, Russian and English authorities counted 850 thousand Armenian refugees. This means than 400 thousand Armenians died. In the same years, 2 million Muslims died. Everyone suffered, all big parties did horrible things. I think everybody must recognize that and mourn their dead together. But this genocide thing is still based on too much rumour and hear say, instead of facts.

if two million muslims die it means nothing to them..

you ppl trying to talk but they dont listen because the only thing they see is : you a muslim

 

[UkroTurk]

Armenians in Russian army uniform occupied with Russian frigates the east Black Sea region for a year in ww1.

When they left and went back to Russia, they made a genocide slayed the Black Sea people.
My grand grand father was murdered by those Armenian bloody killers in Giresun.
Because Giresun was the city which fought against occupation.
Very interesting another east cities didn't do anything against Russian.
Especially Rize.
If Lenin hadnt been , our president RTE must have a citizenship of Russian Empire like Batumis Muslims .