Turkish Politics & Internal Affairs

[flamer84]

Historians should talk more accurately about that as some of events mentioned about in the video happened hundreds of years ago. Bulgaria got Liberated from Ottoman Rule in 1878 after the Russian- Turkish War of 1877- 1878. Later in 1878 was the Berlin Congress where the Great powers and some Balkan states (excluding Bulgaria) decided what to happen with some of Ottoman Empires's territories- Bosnia was given to Austria- Hungary, Cyprus to Britain, Big parts of land where a lot of Bulgarians lived (though not a majority everywhere as the Balkans are a mixed mosaic of different ethnicities) were left under Ottoman rule, Serbian and Romanian rule But Bulgaria was "Liberated" and got officially independent from the Ottoman Empire in 1908. The results of the Berlin Congress was that it led to a lot of wars on the Balkans (the two greatest were the 2 consecutive Balkan Wars in 1912 to 1914). World War 1 started from the Balkans... and we all know what happened after it- Hitler, Stalin, Israel- Palestinian conflict who changed the whole Middle East, a Cold War that changed the whole world and the results of em that we see today.

I am sure a lot of atrocities have been done against the Turks and Muslims that have been living on these territories for centuries. Bulgarians like to only talk about what we did to them but they can not admit that a lot of Turks were expelled and killed during all the wars that happened between us. Historical books are written in the same pattern all around the world you know: "We are angels- They are evil and are our enemies" so most people don't know the bad things their nation did in the past. Every war, every conquest was done by spilling blood not with roses and paper hearts... every army does bad stuff to innocent people especially in the 19th - 20th century.

Before Bulgaria's liberation around 40% of the population on those lands Bulgarians considers historically their was Turkish/ Muslim. I'm not counting the big jewish, greek, gypsy, armenian, vlach etc. communities that used to live, or still live on those lands. That was 140 years ago... Decade After the war of 1878 the percentage decreased to 20% of the total population. Right now 8-10% of the total population in Bulgaria considers it self Turkish... that's without the 450 000 Turks with Bulgarian passports in Turkey and around Europe. Turks in Bulgaria survived in the big Rhodope and Easter Balkan mountains and Northeast Bulgaria where probably Bulgarians couldn't get us as the Turkish population in there is considerably more but now a lot of Turks live in bigger cities too in a lot of whom they used to be a majority before the Bulgarian Liberation. We were 1/3 of the population on those lands before and we would have been the majority in here now if we consider that Turks in the last century have always had higher fertility rates as an ethnicity than Bulgarians- not only in Bulgaria but also in Turkey.

That's s German map of the Balkans, you can see how diverse it is but if you don't know Bulgaria now is the area with a majority red- yellow- brown colors. Red is for Turks, Dark red for Tatars (our brothers), Yellow for Bulgarians, Brown for Pomaks (Muslim Slavs majority of whom considers us brothers).

An this is the areas where Turks are the majority in the country right now. Of course Turks can also be found all around the country:

I'm telling that again, historians from both sides should study and give accurate facts about our history together- about our common wins and losses. I know history is painful but the dead won't come back from the past so let them rest in peace and try live together as normal people. I want our countries to live in peace because I love both countries and as a Turk from Bulgaria I want both countries to prosper. Even as a big minority we have always worked for that Country, we have won medals in sports for it, we pay our taxes, we produce and take part in the economy of the country we helped Bulgaria to get built no matter what Bulgarian Governments did to us in the last 14 decades- especially during Communism- not regular Bulgarian people that we have lived together with peacefully for centuries. Communist destroyed Bulgaria and their sons are still doing it now. We have never spit on the flag, we have never fought against the State, we have never used it's resources for free as some other "nations" do to their countries. This is why we deserve respect from this country.

The guy in the video says that in the 1st Balkan War,2.5 million muslims were killed in the Balkans.I mean,really,WTF ? Not even the 3rd Reich was so successful in a couple of months.Another brain frt...."muslims were the majority in the Balkans".

 

[T-123456]

l just hope we end this whole terror thing here but even that seems kinda delusive.

You know thats impossible,nereye giderse gitsin.

 

[Mucahit]

And please a Romanian guy who doesn't know a shit about life and history of Bulgaria, not to talk about the Turks in Bulgaria or at least try to do it after you have a contact with Turks from here too. Because my parents still remember how they changed their names by force, how many innocent people were killed and hurt when Commies were doing that... They still remember how Commies were changing even the names on the Turkish tomb stones in graveyards with Bulgarian names and how many people were forced to leave their homeland forced by the Police and the Military. If it wasn't for the Communists most of my family would have still be living in Bulgaria not hundreds and thousands of miles away.

Hocam boşuna bu adamla muhattab olma deli eder seni, böyle tipler ermeni yalanlarına gözü kapalı inanıyor ama 20 yıl önce olmuş şey onlar için yalan.

 

[flamer84]

And please a Romanian guy who doesn't know a shit about life and history of Bulgaria, not to talk about the Turks in Bulgaria or at least try to do it after you have a contact with Turks from here too. Because my parents still remember how they changed their names by force, how many innocent people were killed and hurt when Commies were doing that... They still remember how Commies were changing even the names on the Turkish tomb stones in graveyards with Bulgarian names and how many people were forced to leave their homeland forced by the Police and the Military. If it wasn't for the Communists most of my family would have still be living in Bulgaria not hundreds and thousands of miles away.

I know about that but that was more about commies trying to snuff out anyone different from their "egalitarian society".It was criminal and shamefull,it was communism..

 

[MarkusS]

so much nonsense here...

1. No the EU did not give free travel for turks. It adviced it. Many instances must agree now and there are heavy doubts against it

2. Even if put into action france and germany already installed an emerhency break. If too many turks use it, it can be shut down.

3. only turks with biometric passports can come in for 90 days. Thats not even 10% of the turkish population

The big majority of europeans is against it. Given the fact that erdogan acts like a idiot right now its pretty obvious the deal will bust within weeks. Its a nice gesture now and we will see how it works out.

 

[xyxmt]

yeah but thats no gonna happen unless they are fluent in Turkish, can sing the hymn, know about politics, adopt a Turkish name and live for several years legally in Turkey, so nope not gonna happen.

Turkish people have anything against $$$? works everywhere else in the world. Harder more money, easier less money...Economics 101

 

[Deliorman]

I know about that but that was more about commies trying to snuff out anyone different from their "egalitarian society".It was criminal and shamefull,it was communism..

Commies (the Russian *** lickers) did a lot of harm on Bulgarians too... That is true but still a lot of bulgarians like Communism. In 50 years they brainwashed most of Bulgaria's population.

Anyway I am telling you that a lot of killings, atrocities and ethnic cleanings have been done on the Turks before Communism as there was wars between Turks and Bulgarians before that- the War in 1877-1878 included where most of ethnic cleanings happened. Once I had an argue with a Bulgarian nationalist and he happily told me: "My grand- grandfather fought in the Russian- Turkish war. He and his comrades killed 4000 Turks (I don't remember the exact town/village where it happened) and took their properties and belongings.". Probably he wanted to tell me they equalized the score or something... probably like Ratko Mladic who was taking revenge on the Turks with killing innocent Bosniaks in Srebrenica.

I really can't understand how one can be happy of the death of innocent people as I can never be happy of something like that. Unfortunately history is full memories about human death not only on the Balkans but all around the world... I believe we should overcome bad things and try living as human beings not as wild beasts- unfortunately most people think otherwise.

 

[flamer84]

Commies (the Russian *** lickers) did a lot of harm on Bulgarians too... That is true but still a lot of bulgarians like Communism. In 50 years they brainwashed most of Bulgaria's population.

Anyway I am telling you that a lot of killings, atrocities and ethnic cleanings have been done on the Turks before Communism as there was wars between Turks and Bulgarians before that- the War in 1877-1878 included where most of ethnic cleanings happened. Once I had an argue with a Bulgarian nationalist and he happily told me: "My grand- grandfather fought in the Russian- Turkish war. He and his comrades killed 4000 Turks (I don't remember the exact town/village where it happened) and took their properties and belongings.". Probably he wanted to tell me they equalized the score or something... probably like Ratko Mladic who was taking revenge on the Turks with killing innocent Bosniaks in Srebrenica.

I really can't understand how one can be happy of the death of innocent people as I can never be happy of something like that. Unfortunately history is full memories about human death not only on the Balkans but all around the world... I believe we should overcome bad things and try living as human beings not as wild beasts- unfortunately most people think otherwise.

I am pretty aware of Balkan history and Bulgarian history.I saw you mentioning about "Bulgarian lands" landing in Romanian hands and I assume you mean Dobrogea/Dobrudja.I'm pretty certain that for the Turk/Tatar minority living there it was very much for the best as Romanians didn't commit massacres like those in the rest of the Balkans against the Turks.

Stilll,before venting on the Bulgarians,and I'm not defending anyone here ,we must remember the horrors perpetrated against them by the Ottomans for over 450 years which significantly dwarf the Bulgarian subsequent retaliations.Plus,many of the Turks in Bulgaria were no less than colonisers on Bulgarian land.

Coming back to that al jazeera propaganda video,you just can't say ridiculous stuff like "2.5 million muslims were killed in the 1st Balkan War" or "a century ago the Balkans were inhabited by a majority of muslims" and call that history.

Last but not least,you're completely right on the fact we should move on instead of moaning about what your great great great grand daddy did to mine or vice versa.It's just that,as a neighbour of Turkey,you get to hear the numero uno honcho in Istanbul talking in neo ottoman and Islamic terms every day,you tend to get nervous and iritated.

 

[Mucahit]

I am pretty aware of Balkan history and Bulgarian history.I saw you mentioning about "Bulgarian lands" landing in Romanian hands and I assume you mean Dobrogea/Dobrudja.I'm pretty certain that for the Turk/Tatar minority living there it was very much for the best as Romanians didn't commit massacres like those in the rest of the Balkans against the Turks.

Stilll,before venting on the Bulgarians,and I'm not defending anyone here ,we must remember the horrors perpetrated against them by the Ottomans for over 450 years which significantly dwarf the Bulgarian subsequent retaliations.Plus,many of the Turks in Bulgaria were no less than colonisers on Bulgarian land.

Coming back to that al jazeera propaganda video,you just can't say ridiculous stuff like "2.5 million muslims were killed in the 1st Balkan War" or "a century ago the Balkans were inhabited by a majority of muslims" and call that history.

Last but not least,you're completely right on the fact we should move on instead of moaning about what your great great great grand daddy did to mine or vice versa.It's just that,as a neighbour of Turkey,you get to hear the numero uno honcho in Istanbul talking in neo ottoman and Islamic terms every day,you tend to get nervous and iritated.

LoL, armenians say 1.5 Million of them were killed by Turks and everyone believes without a doubt and when it comes to this it's bullshit? Something is wrong here.

 

[flamer84]

LoL, armenians say 1.5 Million of them were killed by Turks and everyone believes without a doubt and when it comes to this it's bullshit? Something is wrong here.

Something is wrong when somebody thinks that just in a couple of months (not years !) 2.5 millions were killed.Not even Nazis were that efficient.Anyway,nobody believes this,this is just hatefull propaganda taught in some muslim countries.Why do you think that retarded video got so much flak on youtube ?

 

[Mucahit]

Something is wrong when somebody thinks that just a couple of months (not years !) 2.5 millions were killed.Not even Nazis were that efficient.Anyway,nobody believes this,this is just hatefull propaganda taught in some muslim countries.Why do you think that retarded video got so much flak on yt ?

That's because how the world works....They don't care if some muslim dies.

Turks ruled balkans for 400 years yet all people there could remain their religion and culture..
it's really absurd when French people are accusing us genociding armenians while they butchered millions of people in africa and various other continents.

Yeah and killing 1.5 Million armenians makes sense right? ln our hardest times where we fought at 3 fronts all men away with no supplies or anything..i hate exactly this kind of Hypocrisy.

Let me tell you one thing if Turks were a christian nation no one would care about any armenian genocide bullshit.

 

[flamer84]

Let me tell you one thing if Turks were a christian nation no one would care about any armenian genocide bullshit.

I'm pretty sure that Christian Germany was punished for genocide and so were Christian Serbs.Muslim seem to have a hard time aknowledging a crime for what it is....a crime.

 

[Deliorman]

I am pretty aware of Balkan history and Bulgarian history.I saw you mentioning about "Bulgarian lands" landing in Romanian hands and I assume you mean Dobrogea/Dobrudja.I'm pretty certain that for the Turk/Tatar minority living there it was very much for the best as Romanians didn't commit massacres like those in the rest of the Balkans against the Turks.

Stilll,before venting on the Bulgarians,and I'm not defending anyone here ,we must remember the horrors perpetrated against them by the Ottomans which significantly dwarf the Bulgarian subsequent retaliations.

Coming back to that al jazeera propaganda video,you just can't say ridiculous stuff like "2.5 million muslims were killed in the 1st Balkan War" or "a century ago the Balkans were inhabited by a majority of muslims" and call that history.

Last but not least,you're completely right on the fact we should move on instead of moaning about what your great great great grand daddy did to mine or vice versa.It's just that,as a neighbour of Turkey,you get to hear the numero uno honcho in Istanbul talking in neo ottoman and Islamic terms every day,you tend to get nervous and iritated.

I have warm feelings for Romania as I think it's a country that is friendly to the Turks. Of course we had some battles back in the centuries but believe me that Turks don't have any bad feelings towards you. Dobrogea was of course really mixed with Romanians/Vlachs, Turks/Tatars and Bulgarians making big part of the population. The same can be said about all areas around the Danube river. For example a lot of Bulgarians believe that Romanians assimilated and expelled hundreds of thousands of Bulgarians from Dobrogea and Wallachia but they do not admit they did the same to a lot of Vlachs too. That's the thing that I hate- pretending you are good and others bad when you did the same things as them.

Like every Foreign media Al Jazeera probably told some wrong things and some bigger numbers than they should but still they also told a lot of truths that Bulgarians don't want to admit and feel angry about. Most historians agree that on the Eastern Balkans before the war of 1877-1878 Turks/Muslims were making around 1/3 of the total population. Hundreds of thousand of Greeks, Jews, Gypsies, Vlachs, Armenians were also living there so believe me that Bulgarians were not the overwhelming majority either. Probably they were a majority but almost equal or a little bit more than us. This is why I want our mutual history to be studied by historians and scientists from both sides and to stop arguing about stuff we couldn't change and just learn how to live with mistakes did by our ancestors. Let's learn how not to make the same mistakes again.

PS Most of my relatives that have been to Romania have told me that Romanians showed them respect and a friendly attitude while visiting Bucharest (that happened during Communism) and they were colder towards Bulgarians. At least that's what my mother told me about her visit to Romania while being on a school trip to Romania. I also like Popescu and Hagi and romanian music and language. "Pizda Mati" From a Visa Free travel for the Turks Romania can only win as it is a place that has things to offer to the Turkish tourists. Romania won't be flooded with Turkish illegals, believe me, but if for example 50 thousand more Turks visit your country next year wouldn't that be good for the economy?

PS2 I don't really think Turks want to conquer Balkans again or something as most Turks (and people) in general want peace, not war... like any other nation we have the right to be proud of our past and our great wins (though we also should know our mistakes and bad deeds). Every country wants to have bigger influence on regional/world stage. Stuff like that happen all around Europe too but when that happens in Turkey (or Russia as the other huge country in the East that have historically been a great danger for Europe) Europeans get scared. Every country tries to help their brothers living around the world. Isn't Romania helping building schools and cultural centers for it's minorities around Europe and the US? Isn't there Romanian churches in the US? If your do that for your fellow Romanians abroad I won't call that Romanian expansionism I will call it keeping the cultural ties with your brothers. I also think Moldova is Romania.

 

[flamer84]

PS Most of my relatives that have been to Romania have told me that Romanians showed them respect and a friendly attitude while visiting Bucharest (that happened during Communism) and they were colder towards Bulgarians. At least that's what my mother told me about her visit to Romania while being on a school trip to Romania. I also like Popescu and Hagi and romanian music and language. "Pizda Mati"

Bulgarians are butthurt because they still think they matter just because they had some empire 1000 years ago and khan Tuhutum or whatever drank from the skull of some Byzantine emperor.But that's the case with many of Romania's neighbours,old has beens,bitter and grumpy just because their little countries are like 1 quarter of modern day Romania-how dare these vlach peasants be the biggest country in the Balkans?.To us Romanians,they're all the same in the end,they're all invaders in the region,just that some converted to Christianity.We're the only "natives" in this areea.Bulgarians still act all high and mighty,i see their PM talking about how Bulgaria is progressing better than Romania altough they're being left behind economically every year ,their economical growth is laughable and that the European Commission highlighted tht Romania had made real progress in the fight against corruption )numerous arrests,politicians sentenced to jail) while in Bulgaria there's nothing to be noticed.

P.S. The vlachs were culturally genocided in Greece,Bulgaria,Macedonia and Serbia.

 

[django]

That's because how the world works....They don't care if some muslim dies.

Turks ruled balkans for 400 years yet all people there could remain their religion and culture..
it's really absurd when French people are accusing us genociding armenians while they butchered millions of people in africa and various other continents.

Yeah and killing 1.5 Million armenians makes sense right? ln our hardest times where we fought at 3 fronts all men away with no supplies or anything..i hate exactly this kind of Hypocrisy.

Let me tell you one thing if Turks were a christian nation no one would care about any armenian genocide bullshit.

Excellent post.