Turkish Navy and PM to accompany more aid ships to Gaza

[Neither Right Nor Wrong]

Amen..

We can amend that to be ICBM instead of aircraft. If by virtue of being in international waters renders one immune from being boarded, then no one has any right to shoot down another country's ICBM in flight outside of one's airspace. After all, it has not violated anyone's territorial airspace or impact anyone's soil.

ICBM is not manned !!

 

[ameer219]

The argument was that merely being in international waters renders one immune from being boarded, or 'right to visit'. That is not true. The nature and intention of the ship are factors in said immunity. If it was that simple: being in international waters, then no navy is justified in boarding any pirate ship until an act of piracy have been committed.



UNCLOS - Part VII

One cannot board a 'pirate' ship unless one is reasonably certain that a ship is a pirate ship and therefore is fully justified in boarding said ship without the pirates committing a crime.

How can you prove that Israel is reasonably sure its a pirate ship? It has gone through all border inspections before leaving for Israel, how can you prove it was carrying illegal or dangerous goods? And please, don't tell me its knives, or screwdriver

It is a ship whose intention is to flaunt the laws of a State and that intention is known. Whether it is commandos or seaman recruits is irrelevant.

Is there a law on Israel that does not allow ship AIDS to pass send to Gaza?

Israel allows no more than 15,000 Tons of supplies in whereas even the UN says that it is not even one fourth of the required supply to sustain any semblance of a normal life

Can you justify this?

No...To comply peacefully. But if the crew resort to physical assault, then the boarders are justified to respond in kind.

So by your logic, invading another ship by using commandos without even know if its a pirate ship is justifiable, but responding by force from the pirate ship is not justifiable. Its like you come to my house to steal, but I am not allowed to retaliate.

So that means all the those ship that have been hijacked by Somalian pirates, who used force to restrain itself have all violated international laws. Wow, what logic

The group already made its intention known: To violate someone's territory. So why would they all of a sudden become amenable to persuasion?

"....stipulates that the threat or use of force against other states is unlawful, except in the case of self-desfense."

Humanitarian law

Is this a case of self defence on the ships? If not, why land on the ship? Why can't they be signaled or given a warning?

Do not care if you like me or not...

Neither do I care if you do not care.

 

[All-Green]

In modern times when the world preaches about collective responsibility and values of peace and justice, we here see a state which has been forcibly keeping a people under siege without letting in essential provisions to sustain life it self.
All the while most of the world deems it as a condemnable act, yet does nothing about it. Selective righteousness.

This was not a dangerous military operation in a real sense, on which harboured the survival of Israel.
The people were genuine aid workers and media people, not at all militants or trained men.

"This flotilla was anything but a humanitarian mission," Israel's deputy UN ambassador Daniel Carmon said.
He said the activists had used "knives, clubs and other weapons" to attack the soldiers who boarded the lead boat, the Mavi Marmara.

Other weapons...must be bananas and apples, if he failed to mention it.
Knives and clubs???
To face trained men with overwhelming firepower, this is what the miscreants in the flotilla came up with?
It was anything but a humanitarian mission?
What a statement...i would say it was painfully obvious from the "dangerous" weapons being used that it was just that...a humanitarian mission...
Even when defending their lives the people allegedly used only clubs and knives....what a pathetic state of affairs.
What sheer persistent nonsense which Israel comes up with to justify its absolutely disproportionate response to any and all actions carried out to help Palestinians...and the world still pretends to be upholding global values via the UN...a farce.

Since 2007, Gaza has been under siege.
Israel claims that it allows upto 15,000 Tonnes of supplies every week in the besieged area, whereas even the UN says that it is not even one fourth of the required supply to sustain any semblance of a normal life.

This policy of Israel will only create more hatred for Israel.
Maybe this suits Israel fine because they want to play the besieged card themselves and in turn manage to gain sympathy of the powers that helped create Israel in the first place.
Now Israel is no more surrounded by external hostile enemies as it was long time ago but still it is doing its utmost to crush Palestinians, literally.
The Siege of Gaza is the modern day rerun of the Jewish Holocaust of world war 2...the confinement, the limited supply of food coming in ...all reminds one of the start of the Holocaust...
We are supposed to learn so much from the barbarism that happened to Jews in world war 2, countless books, films etc. have solely dealt with the subject and deeply impacted the hearts and minds of the global audience throughout the century.

Denial of humanitarian aid to a non Israeli people is now considered Israeli states right within its own waters?
Does this not violate the most basic agenda of UN, clear agenda to ...the same agenda which global powers use as a stick to whip the bad boys and implement sanctions and even take military actions against.

I hope the USA changes its attitude towards this core issue.
The US should have sent a very strong message but it also shows only regret and hopes for a proper investigation, its another thing that whenever the UN security council decided to send a strong message to Israel or hold an inquiry, usually there was one country which was the only veto power barring the way...USA.
When USA itself has blocked many an investigative attempt into the actions of Israel, i see this only as another hypocrisy of USA to sound righteous despite being an accomplice in facilitating a sanction free environment for Israel by backing it up on every step of the way.

USA has to realize that if talks about justice and humanity then it cannot blindly support Israel while it does what it pleases, at least not anymore, not when Israel really has no external threat except what it will create if it continues its brutal tactics.
If USA has to blindly support Israel then it has to do it at a cost which will be the hatred of many in this world, who see this as a crime against humanity...the very humanity which USA usually seems to bring up in every military campaign it started in the last 2 decades.
Iraqis needed freedom from Saddam, Afghans needed freedom from Taliban...Palestinians need freedom from Israel as well...if only enough to get food and medicines!!!

I wish that President Obama declares that USA would step in and ensure that UN mandate is upheld under guard of his troops.
The purposed of US peacekeepers would be to assist UN and help the Palestinians in getting basic supplies and ensuring that the supplies being shipped in are not a threat to Israel but are non military items...unless ofcourse Israel treats healthy Palestinians as a threat to its security.
The world will really applaud such a stance taken by USA to help ease the suffering of the innocent without causing any threat to anyone.
It would be a very good remedy to improve the situation.

USA can win the hearts and minds of many countless people on earth by treating Israel Palestine conflict purely on merit, regardless of past allegiances.
The post world war 2 instability around Israel is practically non existent, Israel cannot keep on bulldozing Palestinians with such impunity in the name of survival...it has become far to strong to worry about survival and authorize any step that comes into its mind...it has to be made answerable to the world about what it is denying to the innocents.

I think Israel has done a very good job of lobbying itself in the western world, especially the USA. Many of the people associate Palestinians with militancy whereas Israel is supposed to be on the defense, the huge disparity between the Israeli military and Palestinian people ensures that Palestinians certainly cannot overrun Israel, still Israel is always seen on the defense.
There is an established pattern of painting Palestinians as militants who are after blood, without taking into account the fact that Palestinians are in fact under siege and Israel does not budge an inch from this imposing position which is tearing apart any remaining fabric of normal society in Palestine, what will the continued policy of land grabbing from the Palestinians and denial of basic humanitarian aid to the Palestinians lead to?
Will it not cause more hatred and venom to spread?
Will then this hatred not translate into violence, which will be called terrorism and be done with, whereas a state besieging a whole people and toying with their lives is just a regrettable incident.
What option does the average Palestinian have?

Those who have quickly started pointing out the Palestinian leadership as corrupt or inefficient are not looking at the bigger picture, this is a humanitarian crisis and is not about personal failings of leaders, do not just look at it from political angle.
Palestine is at Israel's mercy for even basic provisions of life and what a mercy it is!

Diverting the problem at hand by blaming Palestinians is a very shallow attempt to perhaps project oneself as self righteous instead of admitting the fact that Israel is right only because we (the people of this planet) cannot stop them from this continuous injustice of the highest order.

Such excuses have no real meaning when we see countless innocents isolated from the rest of the world and being denied basic assistance which the world is willing to provide...we are not asking Israel to supply the food...however it wants all those in Gaza to suffer and that is the true intent obvious from the unending siege of Gaza.

I condemn Israeli state for unleashing a similar policy of persecution which Hitler targeted the Jews with and was one of the main reasons that the state of Israel came into being
What lesson was learnt by the modern world here?
I hope the elders of Jews living in Israel see the similarity and prevail upon the state to stop this madness.

One of the main reasons for the creation of the UN was to ensure that such suffering does not happen in the modern world, failure take any action against the siege of Gaza really raises a question as to who will do anything about this humanitarian crisis...there is a limit beyond which even the sanest of men will resort to violence.
If conditions are made so desperate for the Palestinians then the reactions cannot be seen in isolation and judged as extremist or bloody actions not in the spirit of co existence.
Just because Israel is a strong nation, it does not mean that its atrocities be ignored and it not be reigned in, for the sake of all parties including itself.

The implications of this constant state of aggression towards all Palestinians shall be extremely serious, already much unrest in the world finds its roots in this conflict.
My fear is that it only gets worse, day by day...under watchful eyes.

I really do not want anyone to suffer here, however to drive the Palestinians to absolute desperation will evaporate any hope of Palestinians ever co existing with Israelis.
The hate will grow for Israel, it has gone far beyond the point where Israel projects its actions as desperate bid to survive...its policy borders or has already entered into a territory where it can be called a policy of state terrorism against a particular people to ensure they are either eliminated as a people or are made to run away from their homes.

 

[RameeX Xaved]

I think its the right time for Turkey, Iran and Pakistan to join hands against the zionists. Pakistan army should contact Turkey and Iran for any military assistance. PAF pilots are already there in Turkey. Any mobilization in the waters of Pakistan and Iran towards Israel will run chills in zionists hearts.
One More role Pakistan can play is that in any war scenario, if Israel threatens to use its nuclear warheads against Turkey or Iran, Pakistan can convey a loud and clear message to Israeli authorities that any misadventure can lead to a complete destruction to the little piece of land the have got.

 

[Brotherhood]

What is the difference

Oh well, buddy, its made a lot of difference, a so called American on PDF, and a viet-commie on ...............user name.... .....and if you want to join, ask gambit for a referral.

 

[rameez ahmed]

The Holy Prophet (SA) said"

"Surely you will fight the jews. and surely you will kill them. And on that day even the stones will speak to muslims that O Muslim !! There's a jew hiding Behind Me. So come and Kill Him'

(sahih Bukhari)


If We study the history of Jews you will Come to know that they are waiting for their MESSAIH (to be Sent by ALLAH to them) who will liberate the Israel for them and will make them rule the world. But the True MESSIAH is Hazrat ISA (AS) who will return on this world for Muslims . So their MESSIAH According To Holy Prophet (SA) is DAJJAL or the FALSE MESSIAH...

They are doing all this to gain power so that their FALSE MESSIAH may come and rule...

The Israelis started to come to the Holy Land (Jerusalem) in early 1900s.... Then they create the State of Israel in 1948 ..... Now they are making steps to rule the world .. they have completed almost 60% of their 3rd objective, and when they will achieve it , DAJJAL WILL EMERGE and will say that he is the MESSIAH.

US is the Biggest supporter of Israel and have given it great weapons so that it may rule the world as the SUPER POWER .. And undoubtedly now its a very big power and can deal with the Middle east alone now..

Brothers and sisters ask any Islamic Scholar who have studied the Signs of Emergence of Imam al Mahdi , Dajjal and Hazrat Isa (SA) in detail.. He will tell you that WE ARE LIVING IN THE AGE OF DAJJAL.....

If you don't agree with me search on net the Lectures of late Dr Israr Ahmed (may Allah bless his Soul) and Maulana Imran Hosein (he is Sunni)......

You can see the lecture on Dajjal by Sheikh Imran Hosein at the following link:


Abaut dajjal

Israel will now not stop the atrocities on the muslims... I expect that we are only few years away from a big war that Israel is going to wage on muslims (ALLAH knows that best) ... This conflict with Turkey may be the starting point..

 

[Abu Basit]

Israel planning massive attack on Gaza: Ahmadinejad
Updated at: 1312 PST, Tuesday, June 01, 2010

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said on Tuesday that Iran has precise information that Israel plans to launch a "massive attack" on Gaza in the wake of its deadly raid on an aid flotilla.

"We have precise information it has planned a massive attack against Gaza to make up for its past defeats," Ahmadinejad said in a public speech in the western Iranian city of Ilam that was broadcast live on state television.

"I warn you that if this time you commit a crime against any place, against Gaza, the storm of regional nations' fury will uproot you," he said.

"This time if you back the crimes of the Zionist regime, the anger of regional nations will not just be limited to the borders of Palestine, but will also put on trial you and those who are accomplices in the crime," he said to cheering crowds.

Ahmadinejad criticised Washington for adopting a "weak stance" against Israel for its deadly raid on the Gaza aid flotilla.

"The US government has adopted a very weak and biased position. Instead of condemning, it has spoken vaguely and sought to evade taking a stance," he said, while some European countries had adopted a "good" stand.

Israel planning massive attack on Gaza: Ahmadinejad - GEO.tv

 

[bc040400065]

June 1, 2010

Turkey demands Israel be ‘punished’ over Gaza raid

Philippe Naughton


Turkey demanded today that Israel be punished for yesterday’s bungled commando raid on a flotilla of ships taking humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip as international condemnation of the killings reached fever pitch.

At least nine activists, four of them identified as Turks and the remaining five thought also to be Turkish, were killed in the pre-dawn raid in international waters, when Israeli commandos rapelled from helicopters onto the fleet of ships.

Up to 40 Britons were among those detained and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office said that it was "urgently seeking access" to all of them. Foreign Office sources said, however, that many of those detained had refused to give their names to the Israelis, making it hard to give firm numbers of Britons involved.

It was confirmed earlier that one Briton, Ahsan Shamruk, was injured in the attack and had received medical treatment.


The first activists to be released claimed today that the soldiers had beaten passengers and used electric shocks to subdue them, but Israeli officials insisted that they had only opened fire after coming under attack from activists on the lead vessel, the Mavi Marmara.

After 12 hours of negotiations that stretched into the early hours, the UN Security Council issued a statement demanding an “impartial” investigation of the deaths and condemning the “acts” that led to it.

Thanks to blocking action from the Americans, Israel’s closest ally, the presidential statement was notably weaker, however, than that drafted by Turkey, the Palestinians and Arab states, which had called for condemnation “in the strongest terms” and an independent international inquiry.

The Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who interrupted a trip to Chile after the killings, told MPs from his ruling Justice and Development Party that “dry statements of condemnation” were not enough and Turkey demanded “results”.

“The insolent, irresponsible and impudent attack by Israel, which went against law and trampled human honour underfoot, must definitely be punished,” Mr Erdogan said.

“Nobody should test Turkey’s patience. Turkey’s enmity is as violent as its friendship is valuable. Losing Turkey’s friendship is a cost all on its own.”

The pro-Palestinian groups which organised the flotilla said that they would send more ships with humanitarian supplies for the besieged Gaza Strip, but Israel warned it will halt any new bid to breach its blockade of the Hamas-run territory.

The crisis has provided Britain’s coalition Government with its first foreign policy challenge. Nick Clegg, the Deputy Prime Minister, called on Israel today to lift its “unjustifiable and untenable” blockade of the Gaza Strip.

“Whilst, of course, Israel has every right to defend itself and its citizens from any attack, it must now move towards lifting the blockade in Gaza as soon as possible,” he said.

The Liberal Democrat leader’s comments echoed remarks by the Foreign Secretary, William Hague, who called on Israel yesterday to lift the blockade in line with UN Security Council resolutions.

Downing Street said that David Cameron had spoken by telephone to Binyamin Netanyahu to deplore the heavy loss of life and to urge him to ensure there was no repeat of yesterday’s events.

There was further confirmation of the attacks from President Medvedev of Russia, who said that the loss of lives was “absolutely unjustified,” while the European Union President Herman Van Rompuy called the events “inexplicable”.

Israel is still holding hundreds of activists detained in the raid but the first few deported said that the Israeli commandos had beaten passengers and used electric shocks during the assault.

Nilufer Cetin, a Turkish activists who hid with her baby in the bathroom of her cabin aboard the Mavi Marmara, told reporters she believed there were 11 dead.

“The ship turned into a lake of blood,” Mr Cetin told reporters in Istanbul after Israeli officials decided to deport her and her child.

She said Israeli vessels “harassed” the flotilla for two hours on Sunday night and then returned at around 4am yesterday, firing warning shots and telling the ships to turn back.

“When the Mavi Marmara continued on its course the harassment turned into an attack. They used smoke bombs followed by gas canisters. They started to descend onto the ship with helicopters,” she said, calling the clashes that then erupted “extremely bad and brutal.”

“I was one of the first victims to be released because I had a child,” she told reporters, but “they confiscated everything, our telephones, laptops are all gone.” Her husband - the ship’s engineer - was still being held by Israeli authorities.

Some 400 Turkish activists were on the six-ship flotilla, along with more than 30 Greeks and people of some 20 other nations including Germany, the United States and Russia. It had been trying to break the three-year blockade of Gaza imposed by Israel after the Hamas takeover.

“Suddenly from everywhere we saw inflatables coming at us, and within seconds fully equipped commandos came up on the boat,” said Dimitris Gielalis who had been aboard the Sfendoni and was one of six Greek activists returned home this morning.

“They came up and used plastic bullets, we had beatings, we had electric shocks, any method we can think of, they used,” he said.

He said the boat’s captain was beaten for refusing to leave the wheel, and had sustained non-life-threatening injuries, while a cameraman filming the raid was hit with a rifle butt in the eye,” he said. “Of course we weren’t prepared for a situation of war.”

The returning Greeks said those still in custody were refusing to sign papers demanded by Israeli authorities.

“During their interrogation, many of them were badly beaten in front of us,” said Aris Papadokostopoulos, who was aboard the Free Mediterranean traveling behind the Turkish ship and carrying mainly Greek and Swedish activists.


Turkey demands Israel be ‘punished’ over Gaza raid - Times Online

 

[Spring Onion]

So it means now suicide bombing will make its way into Israel too

 

[Sino-PakFriendship]

Turkey is a minion of USA, USA is a minion of Israel.

Turkey can do nothing!

 

[Imran Khan]

i think as cinopak thinking it was enugh time when they attak on boat TUAF can help even that time.

 

[deckingraj]

I think its the right time for Turkey, Iran and Pakistan to join hands against the zionists. Pakistan army should contact Turkey and Iran for any military assistance. PAF pilots are already there in Turkey. Any mobilization in the waters of Pakistan and Iran towards Israel will run chills in zionists hearts.
One More role Pakistan can play is that in any war scenario, if Israel threatens to use its nuclear warheads against Turkey or Iran, Pakistan can convey a loud and clear message to Israeli authorities that any misadventure can lead to a complete destruction to the little piece of land the have got.

Not sure why you are so hell bent on military conflicts without understanding even basics of it??? understand we are from third world country and not a superpower...look at your economy first and tell me do you honestly think you guys can afford a war??? Isn't India on your eastern border and TTP on western(read in whole of Pak) enough???

As far as nukes are concerned don't forget there are unconfirmed but pretty true reports about this so called tiny land having around 200 of them which is much more than India and Pak combined...

So chill....As of now you seriously lack capability to militarily operate in middle-east..Better concentrate on your economy as a first priority then universal Muslim brotherhood...

 

[Sino-PakFriendship]

i think as cinopak thinking it was enugh time when they attak on boat TUAF can help even that time.

Israel should Thank USA, also quasi-ally Turkey neighbouring to her.


If Israel is neighbouring to China and invading any Chinese territory, China has no doubt to attack Israel and must win.

 

[Kompromat]

Amen..

 

[Speeder 2]

If Israel is boycotted internationally because of this, half of Indian's newest weaponary defence systems will be smoked. Just think its lastest navy missiles for its new stealthy frigate, Su-30MKI spareparts, the final nail on the already half-dead aryan MBT, etc, etc, etc, etc.

BOYCOTT ISRAEL !!!!!