Turkish Naval Programs

[aziqbal]

any word on the steel cutting for the second Istanbul class ?

I hope this programme doesn't become another Ada class fiasco where it takes 15 year from first cut to last commission

if launch is in 2019 the dry dock should get the first module for the second laid later in the year

I would have expected steel cut would have happened this summer and module construction underway

then the equivalent of keel laying to follow

Launches

F-515 in 2019
F-516 in 2021
F-517 in 2023
F-518 in 2025

followed by TF-2000

 

[Khagan1923]

any word on the steel cutting for the second Istanbul class ?

I hope this programme doesn't become another Ada class fiasco where it takes 15 year from first cut to last commission

if launch is in 2019 the dry dock should get the first module for the second laid later in the year

I would have expected steel cut would have happened this summer and module construction underway

then the equivalent of keel laying to follow

Launches

F-515 in 2019
F-516 in 2021
F-517 in 2023
F-518 in 2025

followed by TF-2000

The following three will be build at private shipyards and no contract has been signed with any of them until now. Sadly our government is very slow in terms of ship building, especially with the hostilities and other dangers rising of in the black sea and mediterranean. This also can be see in other projects such as Altay, IFV and APC selection.

F-515 has seen no further development in its construction since almost last year now and is standing still with no construction ongoing for what ever reason.

It looks like we have learned nothing from the ADA-Class construction fiasko and the shipyards still can do whatever they want even if it means the navy gets 4 ship in 15 years while other nation comparable to Turkey are able to build almost 15 ships in the same time frame.

 

[aziqbal]

Turkey needs a central committee like CCP

Who will literally drag do anything to become a superpower one day

The potential is there they just need to do it

 

[ziya]

That's not true, the phalanx is already put into position when radars have detected the incomming missile and the firing computer is shooting at the calculated projectory of the missile. First line of defense is the ESSM blk2 (mach 4) missile with a range of >50km and if missiles pass than the last hope is that the phalanx may stop it.

You are right when you say supersonic missiles are difficult to stop, but tell me missiles that are more effective than the ESSM - phalanx combination than.

Phalanx ciws safe guard is between 100-230 yarda,so missile debris is still too dangerous,see picture exocet fuel burned that british ship

 

[Nutuk]

@ziya
Are you playing the dumb, or are you?

No any ship can rely anymore on single defence, it has to be layered defence. First layer of I-class is the ESSM missile, last point of defence the phalanx.

If you know a better concept do tell us, or stop wasting oxygen.

 

[ziya]

We can prevent ram system as before we did on ada class,essm have 27 nm range,ram system shorter than this thats the layer defence no need phalnx if insist on phalanx it should be both such as sea ram system,,,,phalanx system can not tested on real scenairo so far or no knowledge on history itself,and carry danger of missile debris as ı said before,may be our korkut-D system is better than phalanx alone ,but ram plus phalanx-sea ram is better on paper so our ship and man are valuable than our oxygen...

 

[Yellow-place]

@ziya
Are you playing the dumb, or are you?

No any ship can rely anymore on single defence, it has to be layered defence. First layer of I-class is the ESSM missile, last point of defence the phalanx.

If you know a better concept do tell us, or stop wasting oxygen.

What shall we do about your oxygen consumption?

 

[era_shield]

Ziya has a point. Realistically, Phalanx CIWS are ineffective against supersonic AShMs. A Brahmos missile closes the final 1km distance to the ship in less than 1 second. Even if the Phalanx gets lucky and hits it, the ship will be hit with debris and it will likely be a mission kill. ESSM will also have trouble hitting it because the Brahmos performs terminal evasive maneuvers, and since it goes mach 3, it has the advantage against a missile trying to intercept it at a similar speed, because the intercepting missile can only react in response to the incoming missile's actions. These terminal maneuvers are secret so it's hard to say how effective they would be, but I doubt an ESSM can reliably intercept a Brahmos. And don't forget that a ship will only get about 30 seconds between detection and impact - and that assumes no radar jamming. So it's a dangerous threat. We need laser or railgun CIWS to improve defenses against these types of missiles.

 

[ziya]

Ziya has a point. Realistically, Phalanx CIWS are ineffective against supersonic AShMs. A Brahmos missile closes the final 1km distance to the ship in less than 1 second. Even if the Phalanx gets lucky and hits it, the ship will be hit with debris and it will likely be a mission kill. ESSM will also have trouble hitting it because the Brahmos performs terminal evasive maneuvers, and since it goes mach 3, it has the advantage against a missile trying to intercept it at a similar speed, because the intercepting missile can only react in response to the incoming missile's actions. These terminal maneuvers are secret so it's hard to say how effective they would be, but I doubt an ESSM can reliably intercept a Brahmos. And don't forget that a ship will only get about 30 seconds between detection and impact - and that assumes no radar jamming. So it's a dangerous threat. We need laser or railgun CIWS to improve defenses against these types of missiles.

Yes ultimate ship defence would be laser systems,but mean time british sea ceptor suits better than other self defence systems for supersonic missiles but she will fail against hipersonic missiles like brahmos, as you mentioned we also improve electronic counter measures,radar seeker jamming and especially counter infrared measures these infrared seeker becoming more on these missiles,by the way are milgems have infrared counter measures?

 

[HRK]

A Brahmos missile closes the final 1km distance to the ship in less than 1 second.

In my opinion to rely solely on defensive measure against the supersonic anti ship missiles is a risky option specially when number of such missiles will be employed against your warship, only a single such missile is more then enough to devastate the warship because of this reason we adopted the offensive strategy to takeout the warships armed with P-800 oniks[Indian version Brahmos] missile by long range anti ship missiles so that we can target those warships even before they can launch P-800/Brahmos.

 

[CAN_TR]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1065500836908990464

 

[Khagan1923]

I-Class construction begin - Mid 2017

Delivery - Mid 2022


5 years for one ship. This government is a joke. So are our shipyards who can do whatever they wish to do.

Looks like nothing was learned.

4 Ada Class Corvettes - 15+ Years

4 I-Class Frigates - 12+ Years (?)


I have no words for the incompetence shown again and again by politicians and senior military staff in terms of modernization and acquisitions of new hardware and software in this Country. At end those who suffer are the common People. So who cares right ?

F-515 should have been in the waters by now but why would you do that if you can take your sweet time while hostile countries around you are quickly enlargen their fleets with newer ships.

Can’t build a 110m ship in one and a half year instead needs 5 years for it unbelievable. Even if you add the testing phase into those 5 years the build time would still equal 3,5-4 years. What a joke.

 

[xbat]

unfortunately there is no money anymore, Turkey is in deep financial crisis. it would be worse in next coming year. Yavuz class is almost dead and we are doing almost nothing.

I have a question , is there enough space for additional 16 cell VLS on I class? i hope it because they extended it about 3mt after first design revealed. but never heard that the ship is able to accommodate 32 cell vls from a reliable person.

 

[CAN_TR]

unfortunately there is no money anymore, Turkey is in deep financial crisis. it would be worse in next coming year. Yavuz class is almost dead and we are doing almost nothing.

I have a question , is there enough space for additional 16 cell VLS on I class? i hope it because they extended it about 3mt after first design revealed. but never heard that the ship is able to accommodate 32 cell vls from a reliable person.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1065374326902464513

 

[Borg]

I-Class construction begin - Mid 2017

Delivery - Mid 2022


5 years for one ship. This government is a joke. So are our shipyards who can do whatever they wish to do.

Looks like nothing was learned.

4 Ada Class Corvettes - 15+ Years

4 I-Class Frigates - 12+ Years (?)


I have no words for the incompetence shown again and again by politicians and senior military staff in terms of modernization and acquisitions of new hardware and software in this Country. At end those who suffer are the common People. So who cares right ?

F-515 should have been in the waters by now but why would you do that if you can take your sweet time while hostile countries around you are quickly enlargen their fleets with newer ships.

Can’t build a 110m ship in one and a half year instead needs 5 years for it unbelievable. Even if you add the testing phase into those 5 years the build time would still equal 3,5-4 years. What a joke.

So what exactly have all those gov. before produced domesticaly? You're judging the gov from Germany obviously, isn't, so you must know everything they are doing publicly aswell as in secret? Would you mind to share all that knowledge with us so we maybe can agree to and support your judgment?