Turkish Manportable surface-to-air missile

[LegionnairE]

man-pads are common on all navies. Even Stinger man-pads is deployed on US navy ships, operated by personnel along with other systems. they should have their reason to have those on their arsenal.

for backup maybe...

Huge displacement should it be!

Let's just say my center of gravity is above my waist

No, it is not. Range is not the only aspect an anti aerial system should have. If main gun is sufficient why the closer range combat systems like Phalanx CIWS? A man-pad missile is a guided one which follows the target after being fired.

Why CIWS? answer is simple, to stop closing-in missiles. What stinger can do is to shoot down a rotary-wing in a best case scenario. Fixed-wings NEVER fly low during naval battles. A manpads can shoot down a helicopter so can the main gun only from a greater distance. I think you're just being stubborn

In fact RIM166 missile is not a very complicated missile, too.

Not at all, as I was saying stinger equivalents are too light weight for naval duty, if we are to make naval air defense missiles we must start with equivalents of RAM then ESSM and SM-2. All in good time. Atılgan is yesterday's story, we must move on.

 

[Ir.Tab.]

I think you're just being stubborn

I just said it is better than nothing for a light ship!

equivalents of RAM then ESSM and SM-2.

Naval AİHSFS would be an advanced system for missile boats. This could be the maximum protection a missile boat could enjoy.

Similar systems to SM2 (or advanced SM6) or even ESSM will be very costly systems, I only saw them on heavy frigates and heavier class ships. Turkey should develop such systems but to see them on a missile boat is somehow unrealistic.

 

[LegionnairE]

I just said it is better than nothing for a light ship!

Define "nothing". As i said in my last post; if the ship already has a 57mm radar-locked autocannon it doesn't give any new capability. Your idea about placing had-kill systems on small boats was cooler

Naval AİHSFS would be an advanced system for missile boats. This could be the maximum protection a missile boat could enjoy.

It'd be amateurish as hell These are called Fast Attack Crafts for a reason. Providing air defence is not their job, there are Frigates and Destroyers to keep them protected. You don't want a short range air defence system to occupy space in an already small ship like MRTP 33. In fact I'm not sure there's space for that on Kılıç II class.

Similar systems to SM2 (or advanced SM6) or even ESSM will be very costly systems, I only saw them on heavy frigates and heavier class ships. Turkey should develop such systems but to see them on a missile boat is somehow unrealistic.

Price is not a problem, the problem is that you need a VLS' to fire ESSMs and SM2s. FACs just don't have the space for that.

 

[Ir.Tab.]

Define "nothing". As i said in my last post; if the ship already has a 57mm radar-locked autocannon it doesn't give any new capability.

That's not my idea to put man-pads on ships. It is a common deployment on naval forces.

Skjold-class patrol boat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Houbei-class missile boat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Rauma-class missile boat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Tarantul-class corvette - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It'd be amateurish as hell

It could be an expensive solution but it wont be that much amateurish. There are modern missile boats which enjoy a short air defence system:

Hamina-class missile boat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sa'ar 4.5-class missile boat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sarancha-class missile boat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Roussen-class fast attack craft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These are called Fast Attack Crafts for a reason. Providing air defence is not their job, there are Frigates and Destroyers to keep them protected. You don't want a short range air defence system to occupy space in an already small ship like MRTP 33. In fact I'm not sure there's space for that on Kılıç II class.

The main question is the fact that considering the ranges of new anti ship missiles (around 300km) is it vital to use the maneuverable missile crafts. By those missile systems mounted on trucks it is possible to attack enemy ships from coast line.

Price is not a problem, the problem is that you need a VLS' to fire ESSMs and SM2s. FACs just don't have the space for that.

ESSM (and even SM2) could be launched from other types of platforms. Price is a problem, indeed. Do not forget the radars and electronics needed for such a powerful defence system.

AİHSFS has a very compact version and this proves it could be installed on large patrol boats.

 

[LegionnairE]

That's not my idea to put man-pads on ships. It is a common deployment on naval forces.

Mostly in small coastal navies for small green seas. I don't think it gives anything to the ship.

It could be an expensive solution but it wont be that much amateurish. There are modern missile boats which enjoy a short air defence system:

Eheheh Hamina and Sa'ar 4.5 are the biggest ships of Finnish and Israeli navies. Coastal navies if you will In amateur class navies like these, small ships have to do all jobs. Kind of Jack-o-all-trades master of none situation. We don't have that kind of approach. Roussen has RAM (common sense). As for Sarancha i don't know what they had in mind. My knowledge on soviet weapons are limited.

The main question is the fact that considering the ranges of new anti ship missiles (around 300km) is it vital to use the maneuverable missile crafts. By those missile systems mounted on trucks it is possible to attack enemy ships from coast line.

It'd be true if TN was one of those pathetic coastal navies. You can see that's the case with Syrian Navy... they don't have ships, all they have are coastal batteries.

ESSM (and even SM2) could be launched from other types of platforms. Price is a problem, indeed. Do not forget the radars and electronics needed for such a powerful defence system.

AİHSFS has a very compact version and this proves it could be installed on large patrol boats.

Price was never a problem, but as I've explained to you about two posts ago it's not FACs role to provide air defence not even for itself. Anti-missile missiles and CIWS' will be all they need since they aren't expected to shoot down planes. Hopefully when the TF2000 and TF100 frigates along with the LHD assume service we'll form standing fleets. We're already sending task groups to Indian Ocean and Gulf of Aden

 

[Ir.Tab.]

Mostly in small coastal navies for small green seas. I don't think it gives anything to the ship.

Man-pads are deployed on all three blue water navies. So it is not a bad idea to have it in ship along side the main gun.

SIMBAD RC

Eheheh Hamina and Sa'ar 4.5 are the biggest ships of Finnish and Israeli navies. Coastal navies if you will In amateur class navies like these, small ships have to do all jobs. Kind of Jack-o-all-trades master of none situation. We don't have that kind of approach. Roussen has RAM (common sense). As for Sarancha i don't know what they had in mind. My knowledge on soviet weapons are limited.

I want to show it is not that much in-common idea. The new technology used in new generation missiles makes them more reliable than RAM system against incoming threats. Global Combat Ship will be protected by Sea Ceptor missile which is based on the AIM-132 ASRAAM. By the way Sa'ar 5 is the biggest ship of Israeli navy.

one of those pathetic coastal navies.

Some large navies have missile units on coast, too.

Price was never a problem

SM2 without the Aegis combat system means nothing. No one could omit the cost problem.

it's not FACs role to provide air defence not even for itself. Anti-missile missiles and CIWS' will be all they need since they aren't expected to shoot down planes.

Nothing is bad with having an indigenous cost-efficient self defence system which is effective against all kind of common incoming threats. You can send your heavy displacement fleet around world without being that worry about green water fleet.

sending task groups

I never sea a missile boat among task group fleet in blue waters. Even there is no new missile boat project among blue water navies.

 

[LegionnairE]

Man-pads are deployed on all three blue water navies. So it is not a bad idea to have it in ship along side the main gun.

Sometimes certain sub systems of the ship gets knocked out such as radar antennas and/or weapon systems. So I'm not against keeping a few MANPADS' in case for desperate situations like these. But for a standing system like Atılgan...

never.

I want to show it is not that much in-common idea. The new technology used in new generation missiles makes them more reliable than RAM system against incoming threats. Global Combat Ship will be protected by Sea Ceptor missile which is based on the AIM-132 ASRAAM. By the way Sa'ar 5 is the biggest ship of Israeli navy.

I don't see how that's relevant. Just see, as navies get larger, individual ships get lesser and lesser equipment. Each class specializes in their jobs. As for TN, our FACs are specialized in fast attack -as they should be, in a navy this size- as a result they don't have anti-aircraft weapons. You see RAM is a replacement of barrelled CIWS' it can both stop incoming missiles and shoot down low-altitude, low-velocity targets. I defend the idea to mount Mk 49 RAM launchers on FACs because all other alternatives suck ***. About Sa'ar 5, you know what i meant

Some large navies have missile units on coast, too.

Every navy has coastal batteries, but not for national defense for defense of strategic naval bases only.

SM2 without the Aegis combat system means nothing. No one could omit the cost problem.

We actually need SM2s without the Aegis, quite obviously because we have our own Genesis combat system

Nothing is bad with having an indigenous cost-efficient self defence system which is effective against all kind of common incoming threats. You can send your heavy displacement fleet around world without being that worry about green water fleet.

We have more than enough frigates and submarines to do the both

I never sea a missile boat among task group fleet in blue waters. Even there is no new missile boat project among blue water navies.

True, because there was no need before, If we actually went to invade Somalia, the shape of the fleet would be different we have auxillary ships to supply FACs as well as Frigates and Corvettes in blue seas.

 

[-------]

This is a very important step for the Turkish Defence Industry, MANPADs are very strategical weapon systems which should not be under the whim of foreign suppliers.

Japan used up their stock of Stinger missiles, instead of ordering more they chose to develop Type 91.

I'd like to also point out that the First iteration of the Type 91 is far superior to the Stinger missile which is currently in service with the Turkish Armed Forces, the Second iteration is even better.

So Turkey (and any other foreign country with stinger in service) with it's Stinger missile is two generations behind, and with no modernization planned (Block II Stinger was cancelled) it is of great relief Turkey has decided to develop MANPADs.