Turkish Land Vehicle Programs

[Anomaly_y]

DSEI 2019

 

[Hexciter]

PARS III 8x8 at DSEI

(Still with 20mm, come on man. French have even 40mm and everyone else 30mm at DSEI, just come on...)
View attachment 578890

That’s not 20 mm, but 25 mm. Turkish army is not using 30 mm. What’s more it is single man turret which is in use with AIFV’s which were mass produced by FNSS long time ago.

 

[Mr.NiceGuy]

Thanks to God we have modernized those m60s otherwise what we would to do with those thousands of junkyard tanks?

Look at this so called world's one of the best armies has it's best tanks from cold war era...

I remember we had a 100% indigenous tank called Altay. What's happened it? With out German engine, armor etc it's nothing but a joke isn't it?

 

[xbat]

joke is corruption not ALTAY

 

[Mr.NiceGuy]

joke is corruption not ALTAY

Yeah if we didn't have that corruption in our government, we could have produced our very own tanks without German technologies...

 

[xbat]

WHOLE TARGETS OF project had been achieved except serial production. no one says its 100% Turkish. engine and transmission are german, barrel under licence, some parts are same with south korean K2... but Turkey learned tank design, it is first in our history. 70 years ago we tried to copy t34 tank(if my memory right) we failed. now we can.

rest are details. we can make better armor, engine, gun etc. most important part is Fire Control system is Turkish. Active Protection is Turkish , it is about to complete soon and many others.

 

[Khagan1923]

That’s not 20 mm, but 25 mm. Turkish army is not using 30 mm. What’s more it is single man turret which is in use with AIFV’s which were mass produced by FNSS long time ago.

20, 25 doesnt matter, they couldn't even penetrate house walls in syria with those turrets and had to use tanks and ATGM to destroy cover. The new scout vehicles by FNSS all have 25mm AGAIN in 2019.

French upgunned to 40, Germans to 40, Russians to 50-57, Americans are upgunning old strykers to 35mm, NGIFV of the americans will have 50mm, the English Ajax 'Scouts have all 40mm cannons. Boxers has 30mms. FNSS has their own 30/35mm cannon which underwent trials just this year named TEBER why not put it on the PARS?

Everbody buying new equipment or modernizing old ones are upgunning and our people still drool over 25mm, stuck in the cold war.

Can't even be bothered to ask for Turrets with ATGM capabilites no we need to waste millions on seperate vehicles which will divert men power to them and money, instead of buying new IFVs and AFVs and equiping most of them with Turrets that can fire Turkish missiles. I haven't seen one Turkish Turret with 30mm and ATGMS, not one, but you expect export success in a industry where everyone offers what you won't and the costumers all select your competitors because of that.

Why work smart if you can be incompetent am I right? You are just sabotaging the national security and sovereignity of your country with it for the future but who cares.

There comes a time when you have to say goodbye to old equipment, doesn't matter if there are warehouses filled with thousand of these turrets. What use have they other than to look comically small while not even being able to fulfill basic needs like penetrating stone walls in syria.

Same shit with other equipment in the Turkish Army, be it M113, be it ACV-15 or Unimogs.

If some small *** state in eastern europe can buy a hundered overpriced Boxers for 400 millions coupled with overpriced Israeli weapon systems so can Turkey find money to buy 100-200 Pars/Arma and 25-50 Kaplans/Tulpar every year to slowly modernized the Army.

Guess we will see M113 and ACV-15 be in use in the 2030s while people will still make excuses for this shit. Countries not even 10% of Turkey have more modern mechanised Infantry divisions.

Or guess we are awating BMC to come out with an render of an IFV and and 8x8 AFV so the Army can buy hundereds of them while there isn't even a prototype.

Wanna see some modern 8x8s IFV?
Stryker(Old AF by the way and still more lethal than PARS can ever hope to be)

Boxer

VBCI

Patria

Bumerang

Thats your competition and you wanna win against these guys? Nice dreams.

 

[Kamil_baku]

20, 25 doesnt matter, they couldn't even penetrate house walls in syria with those turrets and had to use tanks and ATGM to destroy cover. The new scout vehicles by FNSS all have 25mm AGAIN in 2019.

French upgunned to 40, Germans to 40, Russians to 50-57, Americans are upgunning old strykers to 35mm, NGIFV of the americans will have 50mm, the English Ajax 'Scouts have all 40mm cannons. Boxers has 30mms. FNSS has their own 30/35mm cannon which underwent trials just this year named TEBER why not put it on the PARS?

Everbody buying new equipment or modernizing old ones are upgunning and our people still drool over 25mm, stuck in the cold war.

Can't even be bothered to ask for Turrets with ATGM capabilites no we need to waste millions on seperate vehicles which will divert men power to them and money, instead of buying new IFVs and AFVs and equiping most of them with Turrets that can fire Turkish missiles. I haven't seen one Turkish Turret with 30mm and ATGMS, not one, but you expect export success in a industry where everyone offers what you won't and the costumers all select your competitors because of that.

Why work smart if you can be incompetent am I right? You are just sabotaging the national security and sovereignity of your country with it for the future but who cares.

There comes a time when you have to say goodbye to old equipment, doesn't matter if there are warehouses filled with thousand of these turrets. What use have they other than to look comically small while not even being able to fulfill basic needs like penetrating stone walls in syria.

Same shit with other equipment in the Turkish Army, be it M113, be it ACV-15 or Unimogs.

If some small *** state in eastern europe can buy a hundered overpriced Boxers for 400 millions coupled with overpriced Israeli weapon systems so can Turkey find money to buy 100-200 Pars/Arma and 25-50 Kaplans/Tulpar every year to slowly modernized the Army.

Guess we will see M113 and ACV-15 be in use in the 2030s while people will still make excuses for this shit. Countries not even 10% of Turkey have more modern mechanised Infantry divisions.

Or guess we are awating BMC to come out with an render of an IFV and and 8x8 AFV so the Army can buy hundereds of them while there isn't even a prototype.

Aselsan has the concept to have an IFV equiped with 35mm which can also be used against air target with airburst ammunition.
it is easy to talk, ut i think government does the right thing..
instead of making people like you with poor ego, putting money on ground forces and have limited money left for other projects...
Nobody would dare to start a ground war against Turkey and it is super fast to upgrade ground forces in case of war..
Instead you need other technologies...
Irag had thousans of Tanks, what happened to them without air cover? You need s400 or couple hundred ground forces upgraded to 40mm? thats not gonna save your country.. But, on the other Hand, Turkey produced thousands of army vehicles... just to remind you, Ejder Yalchin can carry 3T payload, which means you can put anything you want on it...

 

[Khagan1923]

Aselsan has the concept to have an IFV equiped with 35mm which can also be used against air target with airburst ammunition.
it is easy to talk, ut i think government does the right thing..
instead of making people like you with poor ego, putting money on ground forces and have limited money left for other projects...
Nobody would dare to start a ground war against Turkey and it is super fast to upgrade ground forces in case of war..
Instead you need other technologies...
Irag had thousans of Tanks, what happened to them without air cover? You need s400 or couple hundred ground forces upgraded to 40mm? thats not gonna save your country.. But, on the other Hand, Turkey produced thousands of army vehicles... just to remind you, Ejder Yalchin can carry 3T payload, which means you can put anything you want on it...

LMAO you just made my point. Iraq had outdated as **** tanks in the thousands that couldn't see or shoot further than 5km while the Americans with their new Abrams were able to pick them off one by one because they had way longer range, same with their IFVs. Thats literally the positions Turkey is in right now, undergunned and outranged by everyone around them other than the shitty *** ME countries, if Russia decided to invade Turkey wouldn't be able to do shit with its current equipment, the same goes for the EU and the US.

You literally are talking against yourself, the only argument you bring is "We have to many of those old things to replace" and come and say Iraq had thousands of tanks and they lost. Thanks for proving my point.

I argue that the army needs to be modernized in small batched 100-200 AFV and IFVs every year or two, and you say we can't we have thousand of 25mm and M113s and ACV-15s.

And what has the S-400 to do with this discussion? Did you have a stroke while writing this?

Turkey spends 19 billions dollars on its military but we should spends 500 million of those to replace 40 year old M113 and ACV-15 with modern system that actually perform in the new battlefields that are being created around us. And you say S-400 and prove my point with Iraq and their outdated tanks in the thousands.

Also seriously Yalcin? Are you serious? Yalcin is made for patrols not for conventional warfare. Holy shit I have no words for this.

Why don't we put Tank turrets on Kirpi and send them off against T-14, T-90s and Abrams, according to your logic that makes more sense then buying Altays. To be fair we will never see Altay in active duty but that is another topic.

He really said we don't need those vehicles because the police has a couple Yalcin LMAO.

 

[Kamil_baku]

LMAO you just made my point. Iraq had outdated as **** tanks in the thousands that couldn't see or shoot further than 5km while the Americans with their new Abrams were able to pick them off one by one because they had way longer range, same with their IFVs. Thats literally the positions Turkey is in right now, undergunned and outranged by everyone around them other than the shitty *** ME countries, if Russia decided to invade Turkey wouldn't be able to do shit with its current equipment, the same goes for the EU and the US.

You literally are talking against yourself, the only argument you bring is "We have to many of those old things to replace" and come and say Iraq had thousands of tanks and they lost. Thanks for proving my point.

I argue that the army needs to be modernized in small batched 100-200 AFV and IFVs every year or two, and you say we can't we have thousand of 25mm and M113s and ACV-15s.

And what has the S-400 to do with this discussion? Did you have a stroke while writing this?

Turkey spends 19 billions dollars on its military but we should spends 500 million of those to replace 40 year old M113 and ACV-15 with modern system that actually perform in the new battlefields that are being created around us. And you say S-400 and prove my point with Iraq and their outdated tanks in the thousands.

Also seriously Yalcin? Are you serious? Yalcin is made for patrols not for conventional warfare. Holy shit I have no words for this.

Why don't we put Tank turrets on Kirpi and send them off against T-14, T-90s and Abrams, according to your logic that makes more sense then buying Altays. To be fair we will never see Altay in active duty but that is another topic.

He really said we don't need those vehicles because the police has a couple Yalcin LMAO.

seems like you understand my words based on your limited knowledge...
couple people with antitank missiles, like omtas, could stop all those modern Tanks.
The problem is in Irag, they only thought numerical, but not technological... If they would have thousands of self made antitank kornet missiles, nobody will really dear to attack them. Just search some youtube videos taken in Syria for your enjoyment...
3T is not enough for a tank barrel and its ammunition. Saying it tells me everything about your knowledge..
I was talking about 30mm or little more as you mentioned if really needed.. You probably have seen how they fitted 105 mm on 8 wheel arma or others..

everybody would love to upgrade their technology, but you dont have unlimited money. that where you need to use your brain and just be a little bit honest with you..

 

[Hexciter]

 

[BordoEnes]

20, 25 doesnt matter, they couldn't even penetrate house walls in syria with those turrets and had to use tanks and ATGM to destroy cover. The new scout vehicles by FNSS all have 25mm AGAIN in 2019.

French upgunned to 40, Germans to 40, Russians to 50-57, Americans are upgunning old strykers to 35mm, NGIFV of the americans will have 50mm, the English Ajax 'Scouts have all 40mm cannons. Boxers has 30mms. FNSS has their own 30/35mm cannon which underwent trials just this year named TEBER why not put it on the PARS?

Everbody buying new equipment or modernizing old ones are upgunning and our people still drool over 25mm, stuck in the cold war.

Can't even be bothered to ask for Turrets with ATGM capabilites no we need to waste millions on seperate vehicles which will divert men power to them and money, instead of buying new IFVs and AFVs and equiping most of them with Turrets that can fire Turkish missiles. I haven't seen one Turkish Turret with 30mm and ATGMS, not one, but you expect export success in a industry where everyone offers what you won't and the costumers all select your competitors because of that.

Why work smart if you can be incompetent am I right? You are just sabotaging the national security and sovereignity of your country with it for the future but who cares.

There comes a time when you have to say goodbye to old equipment, doesn't matter if there are warehouses filled with thousand of these turrets. What use have they other than to look comically small while not even being able to fulfill basic needs like penetrating stone walls in syria.

Same shit with other equipment in the Turkish Army, be it M113, be it ACV-15 or Unimogs.

If some small *** state in eastern europe can buy a hundered overpriced Boxers for 400 millions coupled with overpriced Israeli weapon systems so can Turkey find money to buy 100-200 Pars/Arma and 25-50 Kaplans/Tulpar every year to slowly modernized the Army.

Guess we will see M113 and ACV-15 be in use in the 2030s while people will still make excuses for this shit. Countries not even 10% of Turkey have more modern mechanised Infantry divisions.

Or guess we are awating BMC to come out with an render of an IFV and and 8x8 AFV so the Army can buy hundereds of them while there isn't even a prototype.

Wanna see some modern 8x8s IFV?
Stryker(Old AF by the way and still more lethal than PARS can ever hope to be)
View attachment 579017
Boxer
View attachment 579018
VBCI
View attachment 579019
Patria
View attachment 579021

Bumerang
View attachment 579022

Thats your competition and you wanna win against these guys? Nice dreams.

Pretty sure most turret systems are third party. They can probably be implemented on existing Pars platforms just as easy if the need is there. But yeah its a fair criticism to say we are seriously lacking in the area of advanced turret systems, which is kinda obvious considering we used a third party turret for the Kaplan MT.

 

[tornadoss]

Pretty sure most turret systems are third party. They can probably be implemented on existing Pars platforms just as easy if the need is there. But yeah its a fair criticism to say we are seriously lacking in the area of advanced turret systems, which is kinda obvious considering we used a third party turret for the Kaplan MT.

No, the 25mm turret is produced by FNSS it's Saber-25
https://www.fnss.com.tr/urun/saber-25

However, FNSS also has Teber 30/35 turrets. They can use that turret on Pars.
https://www.fnss.com.tr/urun/teber-30

 

[SoftKill]

1000 pcs???????????

https://twitter.com/x/status/1175009238923534336

 

[Silahtar]

Digitest Defence remote controlled unmanned minesweeper

(Possible) Hidromek off-road vehicle concept design
It looks like a very similar vehicle to the Polaris off-road vehicle

(Possible) Hidromek bulldozer concept design