Constantinople
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it's a bad result for turkey..
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it's a bad result for turkey..
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I just watched a video on YouTube (can't share links) about ASELSAN's latest laser technology and I started wondering. It says that the laser is currently effective in a 500-metre radius against handmade explosives, drones and certain types of steel. The system uses an array of sensors and cameras to lock on to a target and the "shot" or "ray" is controlled by an operator. So, why can't we develop this system to work in an urban or mountainous environment against terrorists? After all, these things have very advanced cameras with different infrared layers like thermal etc. Today, even a simple iPhone can detect the face of a person simultaneously with the camera. It can also use its software to determine the faces of other people and tag their names accordingly, on the images. It can actually even tell the objects inside an image. Google even has a service that allows you to take a picture of an object to acquire price information about it. So, if we've combined that technology to detect whether a target inside a specific region (like 500 metres or 1000 metres) is armed and dangerous with military equipment, we can let the device calculate the threat level immediately and neutralize that terrorist. He could be either shot in the head with this thing or in the chest as the target lock would determine the way for neutralisation. It is much more cost-effective than a bullet and it is much more precise. A laser beam of one second would probably be enough to either kill, blind or knock-out a human target. The system could then tag the target on a map using distance measurement lasers and alert the personnel so that they can go and check the condition of the target. It could be a great tool for border controls as well. We wouldn't even need to place any soldiers. The system could just take care of it all. It wouldn't only rely on thermal imaging anyway. Perhaps you may say that, it would be dangerous against our own soldiers but, if we gave certain tags to our own soldiers, they could wear them all the time to be excluded from the device's target field. This may be the future of warfare and it is a very cost effective solution. It says that a single beam of 3 seconds costs less than 1 kuruş. Of course, it may be ineffective in bad weather conditions. But still, on days with clear skies, I don't think that anything could perform better than such a system.
Blackwolf12
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We moved up 4 places from last year, not bad at all.
damm1t
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A promising development for AI technology.
Artificial Bee Colony (ABC) Algorithm
Artificial Bee Colony (ABC) is one of the most recently defined algorithms by Dervis Karaboga in 2005, motivated by the intelligent behavior of honey bees. It is as simple as Particle Swarm Optimization (PSO) and Differential Evolution (DE) algorithms, and uses only common control parameters such as colony size and maximum cycle number. ABC as an optimization tool, provides a population-based search procedure in which individuals called foods positions are modified by the artificial bees with time and the bee’s aim is to discover the places of food sources with high nectar amount and finally the one with the highest nectar. In ABC system, artificial bees fly around in a multidimensional search space and some (employed and onlooker bees) choose food sources depending on the experience of themselves and their nest mates, and adjust their positions. Some (scouts) fly and choose the food sources randomly without using experience. If the nectar amount of a new source is higher than that of the previous one in their memory, they memorize the new position and forget the previous one. Thus, ABC system combines local search methods, carried out by employed and onlooker bees, with global search methods, managed by onlookers and scouts, attempting to balance exploration and exploitation process.
Since 2005, some members of the intelligent systems research group, the head of the group isD.Karaboga, have studied on ABC algorithm and its applications to real world-problems.Karaboga and Basturk have studied on the version of ABC algorithm for unconstrained numerical optimization problems and its extended version for the constrained optimization problems.
http://mf.erciyes.edu.tr/abc/
Artificial Bee Colony (ABC) Algorithm
Artificial Bee Colony (ABC) is one of the most recently defined algorithms by Dervis Karaboga in 2005, motivated by the intelligent behavior of honey bees. It is as simple as Particle Swarm Optimization (PSO) and Differential Evolution (DE) algorithms, and uses only common control parameters such as colony size and maximum cycle number. ABC as an optimization tool, provides a population-based search procedure in which individuals called foods positions are modified by the artificial bees with time and the bee’s aim is to discover the places of food sources with high nectar amount and finally the one with the highest nectar. In ABC system, artificial bees fly around in a multidimensional search space and some (employed and onlooker bees) choose food sources depending on the experience of themselves and their nest mates, and adjust their positions. Some (scouts) fly and choose the food sources randomly without using experience. If the nectar amount of a new source is higher than that of the previous one in their memory, they memorize the new position and forget the previous one. Thus, ABC system combines local search methods, carried out by employed and onlooker bees, with global search methods, managed by onlookers and scouts, attempting to balance exploration and exploitation process.
Since 2005, some members of the intelligent systems research group, the head of the group isD.Karaboga, have studied on ABC algorithm and its applications to real world-problems.Karaboga and Basturk have studied on the version of ABC algorithm for unconstrained numerical optimization problems and its extended version for the constrained optimization problems.
http://mf.erciyes.edu.tr/abc/
I am very surprised that a team at Erciyes University is this good. Prof. Dervis Karaboga has 20k+ citation which is better than pretty much any "successful professor" in Turkey.
https://scholar.google.com.tr/citations?user=aC77_cUAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=sra
https://scholar.google.com.tr/citations?user=aC77_cUAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=sra
I can answer this in depth as much as you want but do you really want technical explaination? If you want in which depth do you want the answer. (It is really really technical.)
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If you really have the technical background on the subject, please explain because I'm genuinely interested in this "laser" concept. It is pretty advanced technology and Turkey is one of the few countries to have that technology right now. So I don't exactly understand why we can't utilize it right now. It isn't too hard to implement. Americans are starting to use it. Why can't we?
I'm really looking forward to your answer, in a both technical and general sense.
It is a complicated subject for 5:30 at the morning. I hope it will be accurate and easy to understand while I am half braindead at this time.
First I have to tell that a laser beam is only a light; but a light ray that is composed in a certain way. (Roughly monophase, mono spectrum)
Light interract with every material in a certain way. You will need different wavelenghts(or frequencies) For example; if you want to cut PVC without burning it you can not use infrared spectrum lasers. They will heat the material, melt or burn it. You will need UV lasers for that; so you can "cut" carbon bonds in these long carbon chain molecules. It will still get heated but most of the energy will be used at cutting itself. If you want to cut steel nearly anything works but IR lasers are the most cost effective. If you want a really quality job; you will need green color. (roughly 540 nm) If you want to wield titanium plates; green is great. At the same time if you want to cut glass green will not work effectively; because glass does not absorb green; it let it pass. But glass absorbs UV pretty good; so you can cut glass with UV.
So you can see you use different laser sources for different materials. This introduction was really important.
If you want to blind an optic sensor completly or for a time it is easier than most applications. Because they are really sensitive to light as expected. Detonating bombs are easy too; they are made of relatively unstable molecules. Heating them up to a degree and/or using the right wavelength(remember?) you can start the reaction.
Other applications might be harder to accomplish; especially when you need a lot of power in great distances. There is a problem called "divergence of light" becomes the problem. This is the problem when you can not focus all the light in one spot. In most laser applications(except applications like lithography) you need to focus the light on a smallest spot as possible to reach the optimum energy deliverance at the target. (especially when you heat, cut, weld something) Because of divergence(dağılma) you can not archive that optimum spot. Think like a really blurred dot; expending the light energy to a greater area.
This divergence is caused of three sources.
1) Laser itself!
This is about laser source's own limitation. Roughly telling; consider yourself building a gas laser that is cylinderical. if you build a laser long enogh(distance between two mirrors) and thin enough this divergance will be lesser. But when you want a high power laser you will need a bigger laser tube.
2) Optics
In lasers optics become a technology and material limitation. In very high energies when you build a extremly high energy laser it is hard to find optical instruments which can endure it. And material limitations; each optical components gives additional divergance.
3) Medium
Best laser applicatio is the one done in vacuum chambers. Even air itself has a additional divergance and dispertion effect on light. (Remember moon photos taken by astronouts? You can see everyting clearly) When light travels a lot of way in a medium it gets more diverged, scattered and absorbed. All those are resulted with loss of energy and focus. This brings a great range limitation.
So; for very high energy needed and very far targets will need so big laser that building it would be unpractical. At the same time you will need much extreme optics and even less or no optics as possible because they will not withstand it.
But; the application is important. If you want to permanently blind an enemy from 500 meters it is relatively easy. Actually even I can do it at home. (with a lot of money
) This does not need a lot of powerand done with face recogition; even with deep learning and neural networking you can make it automaticly find, evaluate, target people at the eye and automate the system. Unfortunately as far as I know this is banned by some conventions. China had a system like that but halted production. (or said we halted it) Burning retinas is fun, I hope wwe can do it in civil life but at war it is not legal! Like I said; optic sensors are very sensitive to light; so they can get demage easily. Eyes are optic sensors. 
BUT! If you want to cut a tank into half at 500 meters this is nearly impossible with current technologies. (May be possible but you will need abnormal lasers for that like a ship) It is a really really really high energy application.
Buring people from distance is hard too. They flee! They move! This is why I hate people. (kidding) If you want to kill a person you will need a relatively small laser o carry on a vehicle; that vehicle need a lot of electrical batteries, that laser will need a very good cooling system(lasers get heated), you will need a lot of energy to kill and you have to apply that energy in a very very short time to prevent aim and focus loss. (you need to focus on same point on body) and you will need less divergence. This is too hard, extremly costly, too much effort for a terorist. Even electromagnetic guns on vehicles are much practical for human target use and even they are not practical for todays tech when you compare them with firearms. (armor piercing and sea surface targets are excluded)
At the same time smoke, dust on air(suspended solid particles), rain, fog etc causes absorbtion and scattering before light reaches target. This is a very very serious energy loss and battlefields have a lot of those.
Lasers are costly gadgets. They are themselves are costly and the systems they rely on are costly too. Maintanance? It depends on system and laser source but tis is costly too when you compare it to a 7.52 or 12.7 turret.
You need to cool lasers! That is certain. This needs extra equipment, electronic control and energy cost. (fuel consumption) Lasers are a little bit fragile; when they get damaged you lose a lot of money. Oh; lasers are expensive too. Especially considering that you will be possibly using solidstate lasers.(posisbly NDYAG)
So; lasers are cost effective, beneficial against high value targets. Especially tactically important targets like missiles, surveliance tools like UAVs etc. Even sometimes they might be the only solution against some targets. But against human targets depending on application they are not effective, cost effective or legal to some degree.
At least for today!
note: If there are some problems in this post please excuse me. I am really sleep deprived. It is a complicated subject; so I couldn't go for more in 1 hour. (I am writing for an hour! Oh, just realised! ) If you have any technical question or if there is anything that is not told clearly please feel free. I will get back here but after some sleep.
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Saithan
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Great explanation, I couldn't only come up with moving targets and smoke screen as way to decrease the Lasers effectiveness 
On a second note, that Aselsan video, 0:25 very impressive lift on that vehicle, I would have thought it wouldn't be able to lift that box with those antenna-legs....
On a second note, that Aselsan video, 0:25 very impressive lift on that vehicle, I would have thought it wouldn't be able to lift that box with those antenna-legs....
Constant and stable movement like missiles and drones have is not a big problem, you just move the laser beam constantly with it. But burning people do chaotic and unpredictable moves. That chaotic movement in unpredicable and reduces the effectiveness. So it is not just movement; it is how the target moves.Great explanation, I couldn't only come up with moving targets and smoke screen as way to decrease the Lasers effectiveness
On a second note, that Aselsan video, 0:25 very impressive lift on that vehicle, I would have thought it wouldn't be able to lift that box with those antenna-legs....
A well designed mechanical system is exciting to watch; like an artistic performance.
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FirstClass
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It is a complicated subject for 5:30 at the morning. I hope it will be accurate and easy to understand while I am half braindead at this time.
First I have to tell that a laser beam is only a light; but a light ray that is composed in a certain way. (Roughly monophase, mono spectrum)
Light interract with every material in a certain way. You will need different wavelenghts(or frequencies) For example; if you want to cut PVC without burning it you can not use infrared spectrum lasers. They will heat the material, melt or burn it. You will need UV lasers for that; so you can "cut" carbon bonds in these long carbon chain molecules. It will still get heated but most of the energy will be used at cutting itself. If you want to cut steel nearly anything works but IR lasers are the most cost effective. If you want a really quality job; you will need green color. (roughly 540 nm) If you want to wield titanium plates; green is great. At the same time if you want to cut glass green will not work effectively; because glass does not absorb green; it let it pass. But glass absorbs UV pretty good; so you can cut glass with UV.
So you can see you use different laser sources for different materials. This introduction was really important.
If you want to blind an optic sensor completly or for a time it is easier than most applications. Because they are really sensitive to light as expected. Detonating bombs are easy too; they are made of relatively unstable molecules. Heating them up to a degree and/or using the right wavelength(remember?) you can start the reaction.
Other applications might be harder to accomplish; especially when you need a lot of power in great distances. There is a problem called "divergence of light" becomes the problem. This is the problem when you can not focus all the light in one spot. In most laser applications(except applications like lithography) you need to focus the light on a smallest spot as possible to reach the optimum energy deliverance at the target. (especially when you heat, cut, weld something) Because of divergence(dağılma) you can not archive that optimum spot. Think like a really blurred dot; expending the light energy to a greater area.
This divergence is caused of three sources.
1) Laser itself!
This is about laser source's own limitation. Roughly telling; consider yourself building a gas laser that is cylinderical. if you build a laser long enogh(distance between two mirrors) and thin enough this divergance will be lesser. But when you want a high power laser you will need a bigger laser tube.
2) Optics
In lasers optics become a technology and material limitation. In very high energies when you build a extremly high energy laser it is hard to find optical instruments which can endure it. And material limitations; each optical components gives additional divergance.
3) Medium
Best laser applicatio is the one done in vacuum chambers. Even air itself has a additional divergance and dispertion effect on light. (Remember moon photos taken by astronouts? You can see everyting clearly) When light travels a lot of way in a medium it gets more diverged, scattered and absorbed. All those are resulted with loss of energy and focus. This brings a great range limitation.
So; for very high energy needed and very far targets will need so big laser that building it would be unpractical. At the same time you will need much extreme optics and even less or no optics as possible because they will not withstand it.
But; the application is important. If you want to permanently blind an enemy from 500 meters it is relatively easy. Actually even I can do it at home. (with a lot of money
BUT! If you want to cut a tank into half at 500 meters this is nearly impossible with current technologies. (May be possible but you will need abnormal lasers for that like a ship) It is a really really really high energy application.
Buring people from distance is hard too. They flee! They move! This is why I hate people. (kidding) If you want to kill a person you will need a relatively small laser o carry on a vehicle; that vehicle need a lot of electrical batteries, that laser will need a very good cooling system(lasers get heated), you will need a lot of energy to kill and you have to apply that energy in a very very short time to prevent aim and focus loss. (you need to focus on same point on body) and you will need less divergence. This is too hard, extremly costly, too much effort for a terorist. Even electromagnetic guns on vehicles are much practical for human target use and even they are not practical for todays tech when you compare them with firearms. (armor piercing and sea surface targets are excluded)
At the same time smoke, dust on air(suspended solid particles), rain, fog etc causes absorbtion and scattering before light reaches target. This is a very very serious energy loss and battlefields have a lot of those.
Lasers are costly gadgets. They are themselves are costly and the systems they rely on are costly too. Maintanance? It depends on system and laser source but tis is costly too when you compare it to a 7.52 or 12.7 turret.
You need to cool lasers! That is certain. This needs extra equipment, electronic control and energy cost. (fuel consumption) Lasers are a little bit fragile; when they get damaged you lose a lot of money. Oh; lasers are expensive too. Especially considering that you will be possibly using solidstate lasers.(posisbly NDYAG)
So; lasers are cost effective, beneficial against high value targets. Especially tactically important targets like missiles, surveliance tools like UAVs etc. Even sometimes they might be the only solution against some targets. But against human targets depending on application they are not effective, cost effective or legal to some degree.
At least for today!
note: If there are some problems in this post please excuse me. I am really sleep deprived. It is a complicated subject; so I couldn't go for more in 1 hour. (I am writing for an hour! Oh, just realised! ) If you have any technical question or if there is anything that is not told clearly please feel free. I will get back here but after some sleep.
This may be the best explanation from someone I've received in my life.
Thanks for the simple and really engaging explanation Mete! Cidden çok teşekkür ederim Mete Bey. Her şeyiyle basit ve anlaşılır bir anlatımla açıklamışsınız. Valla sorulacak soru kalmamış bile. Benim sorum belki forum standartlarına göre biraz fantastikti ama ciddiye alıp bir o kadar da ciddi bir cevap verdiğiniz için teşekkürler.As someone who has recently applied to Aselsan (not as an engineer tho); for a moment, I felt like I'm back in college
. I guess that your explanation is the reason why Aselsan's new laser will be used solely on drones, and probably especially on civilian drones, for now.This may be the best explanation from someone I've received in my life.
As someone who has recently applied to Aselsan (not as an engineer tho); for a moment, I felt like I'm back in college
Ah! College days!
I hope your application gets an approval.
Rica ederim. Fantastik olmayan fikir genelde işe yaramaz fikirdir. Büyük fikirler ilk başta herkese uçuk gelir.
Kamil_baku
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This message deserve positive feedback. Why he didnt get it yet?It is a complicated subject for 5:30 at the morning. I hope it will be accurate and easy to understand while I am half braindead at this time.
First I have to tell that a laser beam is only a light; but a light ray that is composed in a certain way. (Roughly monophase, mono spectrum)
Light interract with every material in a certain way. You will need different wavelenghts(or frequencies) For example; if you want to cut PVC without burning it you can not use infrared spectrum lasers. They will heat the material, melt or burn it. You will need UV lasers for that; so you can "cut" carbon bonds in these long carbon chain molecules. It will still get heated but most of the energy will be used at cutting itself. If you want to cut steel nearly anything works but IR lasers are the most cost effective. If you want a really quality job; you will need green color. (roughly 540 nm) If you want to wield titanium plates; green is great. At the same time if you want to cut glass green will not work effectively; because glass does not absorb green; it let it pass. But glass absorbs UV pretty good; so you can cut glass with UV.
So you can see you use different laser sources for different materials. This introduction was really important.
If you want to blind an optic sensor completly or for a time it is easier than most applications. Because they are really sensitive to light as expected. Detonating bombs are easy too; they are made of relatively unstable molecules. Heating them up to a degree and/or using the right wavelength(remember?) you can start the reaction.
Other applications might be harder to accomplish; especially when you need a lot of power in great distances. There is a problem called "divergence of light" becomes the problem. This is the problem when you can not focus all the light in one spot. In most laser applications(except applications like lithography) you need to focus the light on a smallest spot as possible to reach the optimum energy deliverance at the target. (especially when you heat, cut, weld something) Because of divergence(dağılma) you can not archive that optimum spot. Think like a really blurred dot; expending the light energy to a greater area.
This divergence is caused of three sources.
1) Laser itself!
This is about laser source's own limitation. Roughly telling; consider yourself building a gas laser that is cylinderical. if you build a laser long enogh(distance between two mirrors) and thin enough this divergance will be lesser. But when you want a high power laser you will need a bigger laser tube.
2) Optics
In lasers optics become a technology and material limitation. In very high energies when you build a extremly high energy laser it is hard to find optical instruments which can endure it. And material limitations; each optical components gives additional divergance.
3) Medium
Best laser applicatio is the one done in vacuum chambers. Even air itself has a additional divergance and dispertion effect on light. (Remember moon photos taken by astronouts? You can see everyting clearly) When light travels a lot of way in a medium it gets more diverged, scattered and absorbed. All those are resulted with loss of energy and focus. This brings a great range limitation.
So; for very high energy needed and very far targets will need so big laser that building it would be unpractical. At the same time you will need much extreme optics and even less or no optics as possible because they will not withstand it.
But; the application is important. If you want to permanently blind an enemy from 500 meters it is relatively easy. Actually even I can do it at home. (with a lot of money
BUT! If you want to cut a tank into half at 500 meters this is nearly impossible with current technologies. (May be possible but you will need abnormal lasers for that like a ship) It is a really really really high energy application.
Buring people from distance is hard too. They flee! They move! This is why I hate people. (kidding) If you want to kill a person you will need a relatively small laser o carry on a vehicle; that vehicle need a lot of electrical batteries, that laser will need a very good cooling system(lasers get heated), you will need a lot of energy to kill and you have to apply that energy in a very very short time to prevent aim and focus loss. (you need to focus on same point on body) and you will need less divergence. This is too hard, extremly costly, too much effort for a terorist. Even electromagnetic guns on vehicles are much practical for human target use and even they are not practical for todays tech when you compare them with firearms. (armor piercing and sea surface targets are excluded)
At the same time smoke, dust on air(suspended solid particles), rain, fog etc causes absorbtion and scattering before light reaches target. This is a very very serious energy loss and battlefields have a lot of those.
Lasers are costly gadgets. They are themselves are costly and the systems they rely on are costly too. Maintanance? It depends on system and laser source but tis is costly too when you compare it to a 7.52 or 12.7 turret.
You need to cool lasers! That is certain. This needs extra equipment, electronic control and energy cost. (fuel consumption) Lasers are a little bit fragile; when they get damaged you lose a lot of money. Oh; lasers are expensive too. Especially considering that you will be possibly using solidstate lasers.(posisbly NDYAG)
So; lasers are cost effective, beneficial against high value targets. Especially tactically important targets like missiles, surveliance tools like UAVs etc. Even sometimes they might be the only solution against some targets. But against human targets depending on application they are not effective, cost effective or legal to some degree.
At least for today!
note: If there are some problems in this post please excuse me. I am really sleep deprived. It is a complicated subject; so I couldn't go for more in 1 hour. (I am writing for an hour! Oh, just realised! ) If you have any technical question or if there is anything that is not told clearly please feel free. I will get back here but after some sleep.
My question is can we shoot down nuclear missiles with laser weapon stationed like a satellite in the future? because, missiles are so slow especially when they just fired and climbing up to the sky..
damm1t
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A sun powered laser weapon may be possible in the future but there is an agreement about no weapon systems in the space, if I am not wrong
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