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The Operation ES was conducted without the half of the high military commanders without almost none proper preparation in a moment that was the worst in Turkey's recent history. Almost without air power fvcking up US dreams and jamming Russian air defense equipment in the same time. Interesting to hear that from a guy who's country doesn't have proper control over 60% of the country and is relying onto Iranian proxy militias.

The operation was conducted as it was, there will never be a perfect situation and operation. You seem to rely on the concept of perfect leadership, planning, management and strategy and you base your entire belief of outcomes on that in favor of Turkey. It does not work that way, if it did it would count for your enemies as well.

These militia's are locals, our own people and have become state accepted and regulated, similar to your jandarma.

I would talk about operation Olive Branch which demonstrated the usage of technological capabilities like dummy tanks and suicide drones which small entity of the world have the capability to use and also our special forces and commando units which also went viral after foreign SDF fighters expressed their fears publicly. Our losses were also minimal. Our military intelligence part of the Special Forces Command was also a pearl in the ocean which not much was talked about. I can't create another Mosul and also I don't want to create one. Our soldiers first must leave our weapons behind and run so it happens that way.

Conventional war is not easy but you want to compare Turkey to Egypt? What is so special about Egypt? They can't face us not in the air, not in the sea could do resistance in the land tough. There is a reason for that Turkish soldiers everywhere they get under UN or NATO international missions are given tasks about training the local forces. Today's wars are wars of professional soldiers not of conscripts but if needed I am also sure that the conscripts will do whatever they have to do.
That OP was fought by Syrians mainly and that's a small OP, not conventional.

Every NATO member is assigned to train local forces, even Denmark which is the furthest away from wars, even Poland, even Spain. If Egyptian F-16's are armed with AIM-120 then your advantage over them in the air is gone, that factor is entirely based on an American product, not you or anything related to you. Despite that you don't have the military capability to overpower them.

While Turkey is experienced country when it comes both to conventional and guerilla warfare with what is Greece experienced? With what is Egypt experienced?
If Turkey is experienced in conventional warfare then so is Egypt. Which conventional war did Turkey fight, when was the last time. Don't say Cyprus that's ages ago, those soldiers are now old as hell like Egypt's Israel war soldiers.

Tiny Israel managed to beat all Arab countries to the point they yield. We are not talking about invasion like in Lord of the Rings we are talking about technological superiority and patriotism. We have very close capabilities to that of Israel and if they do it we can also do it. Let alone that we are not step back in terms of patriotism.

Tiny Lebanon recently trashed the IDF and their Merkava tanks in 2006, but let's not look at that let's look at 40-50 years ago.

Where in the region you will get more experienced air forces then TuAF? War is not piece of cake but you are talking about Turkey here.
TuAF did not face a conventional air-air enemy other than some dogfighting with Greece, drop this whole experience stuff. Their equipment is good but the experience remains mostly in training.

We are adding more and more technology every day and we are superior to the regional powers equipment in almost every aspect. With every day there is improvement of the training of the professional units within the Turkish Armed Forces. When you talk about courage you can see the night of 15th July. If some people paid 10.000 euro to not serve there were people who went on the streets that night and showed what sacrifice means because nobody went on the streets thinking that everything will be all right tomorrow.
Relatively every Turk in Europe is paying that number to shorten or avoid conscription.

Yeah because no one else in the middle east sacrificed their life's for a cause.


Turkey is a country with deep military tradition. A country which is famous with its nationalist and emotional people. I don't think a lot of nations can compare to the Turkish one in that criteria and I say it again. No military power can face Turkey other than Iran in conventional warfare. Oh lets add Israel to that list. It's not a piece of cake but if needed we can.
Yes **** all that, leave that story for museums. The whole region has been in war for decades, you're over there fighting the PKK in mountains thinking you're the only one. Japan has a savage military tradition that would trash the entire region, today they watch anime. It is irrelevant.
 
Iraqi army during Saddam was the most combat experienced. In conventional and guerrila warfare.
Iraqi units fought Israelis in 73
Iraqis fought bloody 10 year war with Iran.
they invaded Kuwait and fought with us.
Then they uprooted Kurdish and shia rebellion.

I can not add Iranians to the mix, they fought like idiots with human wave attacks. That’s what happens when you purge professional military men, accuse them of treason and throw in jails(hint hint coup of 2016 maybe that’s why ES was slow tempo op with lots of setbacks)

Turks after Cyprus up until 2016 had not fought in any major engagement.
 
The operation was conducted as it was, there will never be a perfect situation and operation. You seem to rely on the concept of perfect leadership, planning, management and strategy and you base your entire belief of outcomes on that in favor of Turkey. It does not work that way, if it did it would count for your enemies as well.

These militia's are locals, our own people and have become state accepted and regulated, similar to your jandarma.


That OP was fought by Syrians mainly and that's a small OP, not conventional.

Every NATO member is assigned to train local forces, even Denmark which is the furthest away from wars, even Poland, even Spain. If Egyptian F-16's are armed with AIM-120 then your advantage over them in the air is gone, that factor is entirely based on an American product, not you or anything related to you. Despite that you don't have the military capability to overpower them.


If Turkey is experienced in conventional warfare then so is Egypt. Which conventional war did Turkey fight, when was the last time. Don't say Cyprus that's ages ago, those soldiers are now old as hell like Egypt's Israel war soldiers.



Tiny Lebanon recently trashed the IDF and their Merkava tanks in 2006, but let's not look at that let's look at 40-50 years ago.


TuAF did not face a conventional air-air enemy other than some dogfighting with Greece, drop this whole experience stuff. Their equipment is good but the experience remains mostly in training.


Relatively every Turk in Europe is paying that number to shorten or avoid conscription.

Yeah because no one else in the middle east sacrificed their life's for a cause.



Yes **** all that, leave that story for museums. The whole region has been in war for decades, you're over there fighting the PKK in mountains thinking you're the only one. Japan has a savage military tradition that would trash the entire region, today they watch anime. It is irrelevant.
While your countries are failed ones relying on foreign powers Turkey is still pretty good compared to the cancer which is coming from South. If Turkey was easy target to take one now Turkey would not be anymore together with Iran. The moment you started comparing Egypt to Turkey militarily is the funniest.

I am not talking about a perfect conditions. I am talking about the hardest moment of recent Turkish history. Both political and military. The operation was conducted by a crippled armed forces and concluded with success.

We have the navy and airforce capability to overpower Egypt the minute they show both by numbers and technological superiority. Compare Turkey to Egypt in whatever you want. Our aircrafts are superior, our ships and submarines are superior and also our personnel and military NATO standard training is superior.

Turkish and Greek pilots are some of the best pilots not only in NATO but also in the world and that is well known fact. Even if we consider that our pilots are new and not experienced they are bombing every day PKK live targets in Iraqi territory and the last time it intercepted a plane was when Greek fighters abused safety lines in DENIZKURDU 2019 exercise a couple days ago. When was the last time when Egypt Air Forces entered air combat or locked on anything different than a dummy target?

To say that Lebanon is superior to Israel in military power and capabilities is talking enough for you and your understanding for a military combat.

You can talk whatever you want this will not change the facts. While Turkey and Iran are real countries with military tradition I am listening a man who says Turkey's nationalism is in the Museums and talks to PKK like its nothing. For God's sake! PKK is controlling parts of your territory and are attacking from your country. Oh I forgot it's Barzani's fail... Mhm Yeah. Egypt's armed forces are superior to Turkey's, Lebanon's Hizbullah to Israel. What's next? Kuwait is Iraqi? :wacko::wacko::wacko: I have to sleep. Enough fun for tonight.

They will be no Idlib without them...
And all the "refugees must go back program" will be no more...
Without them... you will still got PKK affiliated at your Border... Since ASSad will have been there already;..and therefore no "TR operation"...
Without them... you will get 3 more Millions of refugees in TR...
And so on...

As for the Terro list... Hezbllah and PKK are on it too... And yet... BOth are working HAND in HAND with the same guys that put them on the list...
Why you may ask? Because Countries don't give a f*ck about X or Y...as long as X or Y can fulfill their strategy...
You don't worry for Turkey's border. You better worry for your terrorist friends who doesn't have any place in Syria. Blackmail Turkey as long as you want as a terrorist supporter but in the end the civilians will be safe, the traitors punished and Syria unified under a new government. Saudi's dogs doesn't have any place in that. Suheil together with the left overs of TFSA will teach you good lesson.
 
While your countries are failed ones relying on foreign powers Turkey is still pretty good compared to the cancer which is coming from South. If Turkey was easy target to take one now Turkey would not be anymore together with Iran. The moment you started comparing Egypt to Turkey militarily is the funniest.

Our countries are 'failed' because we have undergone wars with the US. Turkey has not been attacked by the US, do you actually think you would've survived the campaign the US directed against Saddam's Iraq if it was against you. They saved you from the USSR, but you can't be realistic as you're too emotional. Countries rise and collapse, as do economies and militaries. In the 80's Iran and Iraq economically and militarily dominated the middle east, leaving Israel aside.

I am not talking about a perfect conditions. I am talking about the hardest moment of recent Turkish history. Both political and military. The operation was conducted by a crippled armed forces and concluded with success.
Yeah.. and our countries the ones you always bash for every problem never had the hardest moments right? Nah, they just had a few sanctions a few invasions by a superpower. That ain't much compared to some old FETO boy.

We have the navy and airforce capability to overpower Egypt the minute they show both by numbers and technological superiority. Compare Turkey to Egypt in whatever you want. Our aircrafts are superior, our ships and submarines are superior and also our personnel and military NATO standard training is superior.
No you don't, overpower is something that cannot be done unless you wield a force far greater than theirs, yours is not far greater, greater perhaps but not far greater.

Turkish and Greek pilots are some of the best pilots not only in NATO but also in the world and that is well known fact. Even if we consider that our pilots are new and not experienced they are bombing every day PKK live targets in Iraqi territory and the last time it intercepted a plane was when Greek fighters abused safety lines in DENIZKURDU 2019 exercise a couple days ago. When was the last time when Egypt Air Forces entered air combat or locked on anything different than a dummy target?
It's quite easy for a fighter jet to hang in the sky and drop a laser-guided bomb on a target in an area with no air defense systems, near your home base. Don't you see how easy that is? Iran's operation of attacking H3 airbase however was a complex one. Egypt has also attacked targets as you attacked the PKK in Sinai, that makes it exactly the same to that of combating the PKK.

To say that Lebanon is superior to Israel in military power and capabilities is talking enough for you and your understanding for a military combat.
Where did I say Lebanon is superior? I said Lebanon trashed the IDF in 2006 in combat. Did I say overpower or superior anywhere?

You can talk whatever you want this will not change the facts. While Turkey and Iran are real countries with military tradition I am listening a man who says Turkey's nationalism is in the Museums and talks to PKK like its nothing. For God's sake! PKK is controlling parts of your territory and are attacking from your country. Oh I forgot it's Barzani's fail... Mhm Yeah. Egypt's armed forces are superior to Turkey's, Lebanon's Hizbullah to Israel. What's next? Kuwait is Iraqi? :wacko::wacko::wacko: I have to sleep. Enough fun for tonight.
Iraq's gov just doesn't care about the PKK or the entire north that much, it's not that they're unable to.

In every part you do not reply to the point but circumvent it with emotional nationalistic nonsense as always.
 
Turkey also relies and will rely on foreign powers.
Turkish MBT Altay is SK prototype
Self Propelled Firtina is also SK prototype
light heli Atak produced with Italian help
Air defense system along with french Eurosam
Components for F16 come from USA
Turkish UAV industry got major know-how from Israel when ties were deep
Best tanks in Turkish mil upgrades by Israel(m60 Sabra)
s400- again from Russia

Every major Turkish military industry company has deep ties to western companies. So, if this not a reliance then what is it?
 
Iraqi army during Saddam was the most combat experienced. In conventional and guerrila warfare.
Iraqi units fought Israelis in 73
Iraqis fought bloody 10 year war with Iran.
they invaded Kuwait and fought with us.
Then they uprooted Kurdish and shia rebellion.

I can not add Iranians to the mix, they fought like idiots with human wave attacks. That’s what happens when you purge professional military men, accuse them of treason and throw in jails(hint hint coup of 2016 maybe that’s why ES was slow tempo op with lots of setbacks)

Turks after Cyprus up until 2016 had not fought in any major engagement.

Yeah but see, I am arguing with someone here who is living off of nationalism, waving flags like most populists unable to view military situations without pride, they cannot eradicate pride from their thought process for even a minute.

And below me is someone that speaks the level of English I spoke at age 14, I say **** this forum.
 
Turkey also relies and will rely on foreign powers.
Turkish MBT Altay is SK prototype
Self Propelled Firtina is also SK prototype
light heli Atak produced with Italian help
Air defense system along with french Eurosam
Components for F16 come from USA
Turkish UAV industry got major know-how from Israel when ties were deep
Best tanks in Turkish mil upgrades by Israel(m60 Sabra)
s400- again from Russia

Every major Turkish military industry company has deep ties to western companies. So, if this not a reliance then what is it?


Go sleep boy....:-)

You have no cleu what you are talking about.
 
Our countries are 'failed' because we have undergone wars with the US. Turkey has not been attacked by the US, do you actually think you would've survived the campaign the US directed against Saddam's Iraq if it was against you. They saved you from the USSR, but you can't be realistic as you're too emotional. Countries rise and collapse, as do economies and militaries. In the 80's Iran and Iraq economically and militarily dominated the middle east, leaving Israel aside.


Yeah.. and our countries the ones you always bash for every problem never had the hardest moments right? Nah, they just had a few sanctions a few invasions by a superpower. That ain't much compared to some old FETO boy.


No you don't, overpower is something that cannot be done unless you wield a force far greater than theirs, yours is not far greater, greater perhaps but not far greater.


It's quite easy for a fighter jet to hang in the sky and drop a laser-guided bomb on a target in an area with no air defense systems, near your home base. Don't you see how easy that is? Iran's operation of attacking H3 airbase however was a complex one. Egypt has also attacked targets as you attacked the PKK in Sinai, that makes it exactly the same to that of combating the PKK.


Where did I say Lebanon is superior? I said Lebanon trashed the IDF in 2006 in combat. Did I say overpower or superior anywhere?


Iraq's gov just doesn't care about the PKK or the entire north that much, it's not that they're unable to.

In every part you do not reply to the point but circumvent it with emotional nationalistic nonsense as always.
The only nonsense information here is yours. You are comparing a pretty stable country for the standards of the Middle East with some sh!tholes. That is nonsense.
 
Learn English kiddo. It’s clue not cleu


Good for you, still you are talking bs. So go sleep and stop talking bs. Ther are several topics about Turkish defence projects and you are coming talking with zero knowledge. Go check the topics first before you wasting data.
 
Yeah but see, I am arguing with someone here who is living off of nationalism, waving flags like most populists unable to view military situations without pride, they cannot eradicate pride from their thought process for even a minute.

And below me is someone that speaks the level of English I spoke at age 14, I say **** this forum.
As economic situation in Turkey deteriorates you’ll see more and more angry and unrealistic responses from Turkish users. and if you keep it real they will appeal to a mod to ban you. so pick your poison.
Now as for Turkish military training. I trained with Turks in Germany and in some other nato exercises. They have great officer corps, perhaps the best among Muslim countries(i wonder if that’s not a reliance on west) but their regular soldiers are not very well trained and NCOs not that good either. Why? Military is very costly only few countries can afford it and if you have conscription system coupled with weak education in primary schools overall military won’t be on the level. Numerically vast and strong quality wise not so good
 
The only nonsense information here is yours. You are comparing a pretty stable country for the standards of the Middle East with some sh!tholes. That is nonsense.

Stability is temporary as is war.
Syria used to be stable, I have visited Damascus in 2002. Iraq used to be stable and rich.

DOES THAT MATTER IN THIS TOPIC OF MILITARISM? NO.

That's the issue with you, I might as well tell you what chocolate I like to jump to another topic. Instability and war can lead to a war economy which is favorable in wartime even so even that does not prove that stability favors militarism. But what can I do with you, you're too emotional and defense of that pride. And here you speak of Syrians that they should go and die, I suggest you you fight the PKK and die so that the other soldier does not have to die, die for him. If you don't don't tell others to do so.

That counts for this entire forum of nationalists whom let others die so that they can take pride in military operations here, don't tell me you did your service as a conscript cleaning a rifle, patrolling an empty mountain and shooting at a firing range.
 
Stability is temporary as is war.
Syria used to be stable, I have visited Damascus in 2002. Iraq used to be stable and rich.

DOES THAT MATTER IN THIS TOPIC OF MILITARISM? NO.

That's the issue with you, I might as well tell you what chocolate I like to jump to another topic. Instability and war can lead to a war economy which is favorable in wartime even so even that does not prove that stability favors militarism. But what can I do with you, you're too emotional and defense of that pride. And here you speak of Syrians that they should go and die, I suggest you you fight the PKK and die so that the other soldier does not have to die, die for him. If you don't don't tell others to do so.

That counts for this entire forum of nationalists whom let others die so that they can take pride in military operations here, don't tell me you did your service as a conscript cleaning a rifle, patrolling an empty mountain and shooting at a firing range.
I am approaching and working for my professional military career everyday even if I have the chance to run away. When my time and place comes and the TAF calls me I will be there and I can assure you. If I have to die I would because I know what I am fighting for and the level I would be in the eyes of Allah. To good that our country didn't fall to the level of Syria and Iraq. Don't try to compare me to the 10.000 euro ones. I can tell you that I am trying to enter some of the biggest sh!t our security forces have to offer on my own choice. I can't make a major war in Turkey so I could prove you wrong. You are talking from assumptions while I saw it in reality. Mobilization plans and structures is one of the most important things which is part of the Turkish defense mechanism which includes a non conventional warfare which is worked over with experiences of four wars mainly with the participation of the
Special Warfare Department and experiences of the CIA's Gladio network based on mobilization of the civilian society into paramilitary organizations. Turkey have experience in that and not small. Turkey is not the next country you could fvck up. I want you to understand that.
 
It's quite easy for a fighter jet to hang in the sky and drop a laser-guided bomb on a target in an area with no air defense systems, near your home base. Don't you see how easy that is?
interesting. I didn't know you were a war pilot.
:o:
 
I am approaching and working for my professional military career everyday even if I have the chance to run away. When my time and place comes and the TAF calls me I will be there and I can assure you. If I have to die I would because I know what I am fighting for and the level I would be in the eyes of Allah. To good that our country didn't fall to the level of Syria and Iraq. Don't try to compare me to the 10.000 euro ones. I can tell you that I am trying to enter some of the biggest sh!t our security forces have to offer on my own choice. I can't make a major war in Turkey so I could prove you wrong. You are talking from assumptions while I saw it in reality. Mobilization plans and structures is one of the most important things which is part of the Turkish defense mechanism which includes an conventional warfare which is worked over with experiences of four wars mainly with the participation of the
Special Warfare Department and experiences of the CIA's Gladio network based on mobilization of the civilian society into paramilitary organizations. Turkey have experience in that and not small. Turkey is not the next country you could fvck up. I want you to understand that.


When TAF calls you you will be considered a number to be used to contain the expected unfavorable growth of the PKK due to Turkish foreign policy, you will pay with life to contain something your government facilitated and deemed it acceptable to solve it with military means later on. However this is the case with nearly every government in the world given those old rulers are rich, comfortable and do not care about you.

You are 21? You were an early teen at the start of the Syrian civil war, you were 17 when the ISIS shit occurred in the middle east. It is not like i'm that much older than you (25) but that makes me question how long you've been following this region's stuff.

interesting. I didn't know you were a war pilot.
:o:

Locating them in the mountains is probably far more difficult than flying a jet and dropping a laser-guided bomb, if a pilot is taught how to do it it's not difficult. Also that doesn't even work, it's been ongoing since the 80s, you're better of Turkifying Hakkari, works better.
 

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