Turkish gas turbine engines to be the main power source for other Muslim states

[cabatli_53]

Engines as being heart of strategic defence programs are the first thing coming to mind when It is needed to punish a state with restrictions and sanctions. Politicians of the states ruling the core technology of gas turbine engines mostly use them as pressure tool against costumers. Even If countries enjoy with good relations, It is required special permissions to order them. I mean They are export controlled strategic items.
Turkey as a country who is struggling to draw own roadway with relying on the capability of own national sources, Turkish institutes under the coordination of SSB, commenced to develop various type of gas turbine engines which will be the main power sources of Turkish ongoing aircraft and rotorcraft projects. When qualification/certification phase of them are completed, I believe All those programs will certainly open an important gate to all Muslim states to reach unlimited, reliable power sources without meeting any likely restrictions. Engineering difficulties of gas turbine engine technology is known by all. It is the actual reason that World market is dominated by a few suppliers. The destiny of our aircrafts, helicopters and drones are directly tied into the will of those states ruling such technologies so We should succeed to develop those programs to declare our independence in aerial systems.


Turbofan engines

• 17.000lbf class (17k lbf engine to be used in the trainer jet, CAS fighter (HürJet) project
• 27.000lbf class (to be used in the TF-X 5th gen stealth fighter project)

Turboshaft engines

• TS-1400 (to be used in the Atak and T-625 helicopters max. 1660shp)
• TS-2000 (to be used in the 8/10t Atak-II and 10/12t Utility helicopter projects 2000shp)

Turboprop engines

• TP-550 (to be used in the Akinci MALE UAV, 550shp)
• TP-1600 (to be used in the Hürkuş trainer class turboprop plane, 1600shp)

Turbojet engines

• KTJ-3200 (to be used in the SOM cruise missile and Atmaca (harpoon replacement) missile and other variants 3,5kN)
• KTJ family variants (Other turbojet engines to be used on different missile programs such as Gezgin (TomaHawk equivalent) Land attack cruise missile)

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

That only means Joint solutions with multiple-muslim countries involved are on the way; actually, it has already started with some muslim countries years ago dependent on the technological and industrial developments in Turkey and also the parter(s) in the venture(s).

With this critical step, New Muslim countries join in the club next to Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan,Pakistan, Qatar, Indonesia, Malaysia etc. for the sanction-free and modern defensive umbrella of Muslim countries.

 

[T-Rex]

Engines as being heart of strategic defence programs are the first thing coming to mind when It is needed to punish a state with restrictions and sanctions. Politicians of the states ruling the core technology of gas turbine engines mostly use them as pressure tool against costumers. Even If countries enjoy with good relations, It is required special permissions to order them. I mean They are export controlled strategic items.
Turkey as a country who is struggling to draw own roadway with relying on the capability of own national sources, Turkish institutes under the coordination of SSB, commenced to develop various type of gas turbine engines which will be the main power sources of Turkish ongoing aircraft and rotorcraft projects. When qualification/certification phase of them are completed, I believe All those programs will certainly open an important gate to all Muslim states to reach unlimited, reliable power sources without meeting any likely restrictions. Engineering difficulties of gas turbine engine technology is known by all. It is the actual reason that World market is dominated by a few suppliers. The destiny of our aircrafts, helicopters and drones are directly tied into the will of those states ruling such technologies so We should succeed to develop those programs to declare our independence in aerial systems.


Turbofan engines

• 17.000lbf class (17k lbf engine to be used in the trainer jet, CAS fighter (HürJet) project
• 27.000lbf class (to be used in the TF-X 5th gen stealth fighter project)

Turboshaft engines

• TS-1400 (to be used in the Atak and T-625 helicopters)
• TS-2000 (to be used in the 8/10t Atak-II and 10/12t Utility helicopter projects

Turboprop engines

• TP-550 (to be used in the Akinci MALE UAV)
• TP-1600 (to be used in the Hürkuş trainer class turboprop plane)

Turbojet engines

• KTJ-3200 (to be used in the SOM cruise missile and Atmaca (harpoon replacement) missile and other variants)
• KTJ family variants (Other turbojet engines to be used on different missile programs such as Gezgin (TomaHawk equivalent) Land attack cruise missile)

Ten years ago I suggested that Pakistan developed a jet engine on this very forum. I suppose I expected too much from Pakistan. I'm glad that Turkey has accepted the challenge. Inshallah Turkey will succeed.

 

[Nike]

Engines as being heart of strategic defence programs are the first thing coming to mind when It is needed to punish a state with restrictions and sanctions. Politicians of the states ruling the core technology of gas turbine engines mostly use them as pressure tool against costumers. Even If countries enjoy with good relations, It is required special permissions to order them. I mean They are export controlled strategic items.
Turkey as a country who is struggling to draw own roadway with relying on the capability of own national sources, Turkish institutes under the coordination of SSB, commenced to develop various type of gas turbine engines which will be the main power sources of Turkish ongoing aircraft and rotorcraft projects. When qualification/certification phase of them are completed, I believe All those programs will certainly open an important gate to all Muslim states to reach unlimited, reliable power sources without meeting any likely restrictions. Engineering difficulties of gas turbine engine technology is known by all. It is the actual reason that World market is dominated by a few suppliers. The destiny of our aircrafts, helicopters and drones are directly tied into the will of those states ruling such technologies so We should succeed to develop those programs to declare our independence in aerial systems.


Turbofan engines

• 17.000lbf class (17k lbf engine to be used in the trainer jet, CAS fighter (HürJet) project
• 27.000lbf class (to be used in the TF-X 5th gen stealth fighter project)

Turboshaft engines

• TS-1400 (to be used in the Atak and T-625 helicopters)
• TS-2000 (to be used in the 8/10t Atak-II and 10/12t Utility helicopter projects

Turboprop engines

• TP-550 (to be used in the Akinci MALE UAV)
• TP-1600 (to be used in the Hürkuş trainer class turboprop plane)

Turbojet engines

• KTJ-3200 (to be used in the SOM cruise missile and Atmaca (harpoon replacement) missile and other variants)
• KTJ family variants (Other turbojet engines to be used on different missile programs such as Gezgin (TomaHawk equivalent) Land attack cruise missile)

Indonesia ink several deals for development and joint production for several type of engines with South Korea (SK, along with japan and China is strategic partner for science and engineering technology development for Indonesia).

As example

https://m.pulsenews.co.kr/view.php?year=2018&no=537616

 

[Hack-Hook]

Turbofan engines

• 17.000lbf class (17k lbf engine to be used in the trainer jet, CAS fighter (HürJet) project
• 27.000lbf class (to be used in the TF-X 5th gen stealth fighter project)

well those engines are far more powerful than what china produce (China engine is 21.600lbf) and are nearly on par with F-35 engine it's even more powerful than F22 or SU57 engine , are you sure those are not what is planned to reach in 10 to 15 years ?

also don't you think that 17.000lbf will be the most powerful engine ever used in trainer or CAS fighter? Su-25 engine is a 9,921 lbf engine A-10 engine is a 9,065 lbf engine that engine is even more powerful than 14,590 lbf engine that's used in F-15 ? it's very strange it is actually as powerful as F-16 engine and easily can be used in a Fighter jet , why use it on a trainer while an engine less than half powerful and probably with 1/3rd of price tag and a lot easier to maintain can do the same job without even reducing the efficiency for 1%

 

[MMM-E]

 

[cabatli_53]

Indonesia ink several deals for development and joint production for several type of engines with South Korea (SK, along with japan and China is strategic partner for science and engineering technology development for Indonesia).

As example

https://m.pulsenews.co.kr/view.php?year=2018&no=537616

I hope Indonesia succeeds to develop the best engine technologies which will be benefical for own armed forces and other Muslim states but Diesel engines are a different ground compared to gas turbine engines. In Turkey, Turbo-Diesel engine projects have been transfered to an institute called BMC Power. This institute is developing a range of diesel engines from 400hp to 5000hp. 1500hp and 905hp engines have priority in development stages and Goverment released funds for those two programs initially.

well those engines are far more powerful than what china produce (China engine is 21.600lbf) and are nearly on par with F-35 engine it's even more powerful than F22 or SU57 engine , are you sure those are not what is planned to reach in 10 to 15 years ?

I think you are mixing the thrust rates since China is developing a mew engine which will have a thrust around 35000lbf. F-35 uses F135 engine that has a thrust ratio around 43000lbf. Here is thrust informations of wellknown engines converted to lbf.

EJ200: 2.180 lbs, 20.250 lbf, 9,17:1
M88-2: 1.977,5 lbs, 16.620 lbf, 8,40:1
RM-12: 2.326 lbs, 18.100 lbf, 7,78:1
F-135 (CTOL): 6.444 lbs, 43.000 lbf, 6,67:1
F-135 (STOL): 10.342 lbs, 41.000 lbf, 3.96:1
F-119: 3.900 lbs, 37.000 lbf, 9,49:1
F404-GE-402: 2.282 lbs, 17.700 lbf, 7,76:1
F414-400: 2.445 lbs, 21.890 lbf, 8,95:1
AL-31F: 3.460 lbs, 27.560 lbf, 7,97:1
AL-41F: 1.850 kg, 17.845 kgf, 9,65:1

don't you think that 17.000lbf will be the most powerful engine ever used in trainer or CAS fighter? Su-25 engine is a 9,921 lbf engine A-10 engine is a 9,065 lbf engine that engine is even more powerful than 14,590 lbf engine that's used in F-15 ? it's very strange it is actually as powerful as F-16 engine and easily can be used in a Fighter jet , why use it on a trainer while an engine less than half powerful and probably with 1/3rd of price tag and a lot easier to maintain can do the same job without even reducing the efficiency for 1%

Hürjet aircraft will have different variants from CAS fighter to advanced trainer. Airforce wants armed variant called Hürjet-C to be able to climb around 45000ft altitude with a max payload of 3000kg. Max speed to be reached will be 1,2 Mach. The size of Hürjet will be almost equal to S.Korean F-50 fighters, a few meter smaller than an F-16. To reach the aimed performance datas, HürJet will be powered up with an engine having a thrust rate around 17000lbf. F404GE102 engine will be used at first phase bıt It is expected that the number of Hürjet to be produced will reach more than 80 units for only internal market so National engines will replace GE engines in serial production phase.

Hürjet and F-16 side by side

 

[Indos]

Indonesia ink several deals for development and joint production for several type of engines with South Korea (SK, along with japan and China is strategic partner for science and engineering technology development for Indonesia).

As example

https://m.pulsenews.co.kr/view.php?year=2018&no=537616

For turbine engine, Indonesian company who has the ability to build one is PT Nusantara Turbine, a subsidiary company of PT Dirgantara Indonesia. It has a joint cooperation with Siement. http://www.siemens.asia/id/en/press...turbine_manufacturing_plant_in_Indonesia.aspx

For turbojet or turbofan engine Indonesia is still in early step

 

[Nike]

I hope Indonesia succeeds to develop the best engine technologies which will be benefical for own armed forces and other Muslim states but Diesel engines are a different ground compared to gas turbine engines. In Turkey, Turbo-Diesel engine projects have been transfered to an institute called BMC Power. This institute is developing a range of diesel engines from 400hp to 5000hp. 1500hp and 905hp engines have priority in development stages and Goverment released funds for those two programs initially.



I think you are mixing the thrust rates since China is developing a mew engine which will have a thrust around 35000lbf. F-35 uses F135 engine that has a thrust ratio around 43000lbf. Here is thrust informations of wellknown engines converted to lbf.

EJ200: 2.180 lbs, 20.250 lbf, 9,17:1
M88-2: 1.977,5 lbs, 16.620 lbf, 8,40:1
RM-12: 2.326 lbs, 18.100 lbf, 7,78:1
F-135 (CTOL): 6.444 lbs, 43.000 lbf, 6,67:1
F-135 (STOL): 10.342 lbs, 41.000 lbf, 3.96:1
F-119: 3.900 lbs, 37.000 lbf, 9,49:1
F404-GE-402: 2.282 lbs, 17.700 lbf, 7,76:1
F414-400: 2.445 lbs, 21.890 lbf, 8,95:1
AL-31F: 3.460 lbs, 27.560 lbf, 7,97:1
AL-41F: 1.850 kg, 17.845 kgf, 9,65:1



Hürjet aircraft will have different variants from CAS fighter to advanced trainer. Airforce wants armed variant called Hürjet-C to be able to climb around 45000ft altitude with a max payload of 3000kg. Max speed to be reached will be 1,2 Mach. The size of Hürjet will be almost equal to S.Korean F-50 fighters, a few meter smaller than an F-16. To reach the aimed performance datas, HürJet will be powered up with an engine having a thrust rate around 17000lbf. F404GE102 engine will be used at first phase bıt It is expected that the number of Hürjet to be produced will reach more than 80 units for only internal market so National engines will replace GE engines in serial production phase.

Hürjet and F-16 side by side

Since long we are made efforts to attract investment and cooperation to developing and assembly gas turbine engine. This news is from 1997,


https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...tn-wants-gas-turbine-engine-capability-30024/

Since then IPTN creating PT NTP with Rolls Royce cooperation , as preliminary steps to knowing how turbine engines work. NTP work is in maintaining, overhaul, and heavy repairing much of turbine engines working in Indonesia.

https://www.rolls-royce.com/country-sites/sea/our-locations/indonesia.aspx

There is plan in near future to build gas turbine engines in Indonesia as there is large market here

https://m.liputan6.com/bisnis/read/...rolls-royce-untuk-bangun-pabrik-mesin-pesawat

 

[Hassan Guy]

Ten years ago I suggested that Pakistan developed a jet engine on this very forum. I suppose I expected too much from Pakistan. I'm glad that Turkey has accepted the challenge. Inshallah Turkey will succeed.

Pakistan has a developing aviation and defence industry, do you think you're the first guy to come up with building a jet engine locally, is it that simple? It didn't work for India who had good funding and licence built many foreign engines previously. It took even China a long time with a TON of investment in R&D.

And on behalf of all people of Pakistan I sincerely apologize that we didn't meet your expectations of building a modern fighter engine in 10 years, oh person of apparently some level of high significance in Pakistan's military development. Oh wait, no one gives a f*ck about what your suggest or expect.

 

[nahtanbob]

there are tons of things short of jet engines countries can develop to improve their security and prosperity

 

[T-Rex]

Pakistan has a developing aviation and defence industry, do you think you're the first guy to come up with building a jet engine locally, is it that simple? It didn't work for India who had good funding and licence built many foreign engines previously. It took even China a long time with a TON of investment in R&D.

And on behalf of all people of Pakistan I sincerely apologize that we didn't meet your expectations of building a modern fighter engine in 10 years, oh person of apparently some level of high significance in Pakistan's military development. Oh wait, no one gives a f*ck about what your suggest or expect.

Is that so? You are clearly one of those over sensitive fat headed patriots. My posts are not for those who don't give a fvck, they are for sensible people.

 

[Hassan Guy]

Is that so? You are clearly one of those over sensitive fat headed patriots. My posts are not for those who don't give a fvck, they are for sensible people.

Do you think its "sensible" that any country can successfully put together and implement a modern jet engine in 10 years with no prior experience? Don't worry about us, we aren't concerned with your expectations.
This thread is about Turkish defence industry, there was no reason for you to bring up Pakistan.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Sure show cases who is the Top Nation in Islamic World !!!
Well done Turkey !!!

You are indeed #1

 

[T-Rex]

Do you think its "sensible" that any country can successfully put together and implement a modern jet engine in 10 years with no prior experience? Don't worry about us, we aren't concerned with your expectations.
This thread is about Turkish defence industry, there was no reason for you to bring up Pakistan.

Turkey and Pakistan are among those few Muslim nations with significant military industrial complex that's why Pakistan's name came up. Apart from that when it comes to assessing the progress of a nation comparing the performance against other nations is a common method. There's no need to get all hyped up about it. I expected something and it didn't happen in Pakistan but it happened where I didn't expect it to happen, now what's so wrong about expressing it?