Turkish Aviation Programs

[Luftwaffe]

Have you not researched, Turkey is set to replace all F-4s with F-35s.
There is strong possibility of around 3 squadrons of EF-2000s to be acquired by Turkish Air Force that will replace remaining F-5s.
F-16s will be upgraded by that time to block 60 Standards close to 2020 and it would serve Turkish Air Force beyond 2020+, a good example is the way F-4s life have been dragged.

According to some reports Turkey is set to order 125 F-35s instead of 116.

 

[Rajput Warrior]

@luftawafe... the mlu upgrade = block 50/52 standard not 60 (its only for uae)... the confirmed reports for tuaf getting f-35 ??
Also they might land in turkey 2025 at the minimum.
Heck f-35 aint even ready yet.. usa,israel and then partners with respect to investment will be given priority.

 

[Jigs]

We shouldn't be looking to drag outdated airframes out but completely replace them. The F-5 and F-4s we currently have are useless besides the 2020 terminators which are still effective for a attack role(barley). Look at the European countries. Most already have 4.5 Gen fighters(Eurofighter/Rafale) in service while many other countries are ordering them. While we are ordering 30 more F-16 block 50 CCIPs and waiting till 2016-17 for F-35s.

 

[Luftwaffe]

rajput, You have to read my post again, I said beyond 2020 those F-16s would be upgraded to block 60 standards atleast.

There are even reports of 100 F-35s so lets wait shall we?

Jigs, I guess Turkish Air Force sacrificed budget for F-35. It would have been better to instead of going for more F-16 Block 50/52; EF-2000 should have been ordered.
And upgraded 40%-50% of current F-16 inventory to F-16 block 52 Standards.

 

[cabatli_53]

Heck f-35 aint even ready yet.. usa,israel and then partners with respect to investment will be given priority.

Israel did not pay anything for the development of F-35 so Deliveries will be started for official partners prioritily.

Some delays is expected. According to latest reports, TuAF will start taking delivery of first F-35's in 2015. The amount is kept secret but 100 F-35 is the certain. Additonal 20 or maybe more F-35 option is on table to take more offsets and management rights of aircrafts. I mean If USA accept giving management rights of TuAF F-35's, The amount may be increased more than 120...


According to Murat Bayar (SSM), Turkey will replace F-16 fleet with a new AA Aircraft after 2020 but I do not suppose that All F-16 fleet of Turkey will be retired. Most probably, Some of them (Block-30) will be used as a test-bed platform for Turkish missile programs. To modernizate F-16 Blok-30's, Turkish engineers are developing a new mission computer with source-codes called OZGUR to integrate it into Block-30's. Other Block-40 and 50's have already been modernizated under the name of CCIP but It is for sure that F-5 and F-4 aircrafts will be retired after 2020...

 

[LegionnairE]

F5s are already retired from active service, only the two-seater ones remain for training purposes...

 

[Luftwaffe]

78 F-5s are in service. Reports says 3 squadrons would be replaced perhaps with EF-2000 or we may see more numbers of F-35s.

Highly unlikely that F-16s would be replaced by 2020, yes perhaps from 2027 i would repeat the example of F-4s, we could see Korean Stealth Project participation for the replacement of F-16s but that too would kick-in production by 2025

 

[Jigs]

78 F-5s are in service. Reports says 3 squadrons would be replaced perhaps with EF-2000 or we may see more numbers of F-35s.

Highly unlikely that F-16s would be replaced by 2020, yes perhaps from 2027 i would repeat the example of F-4s, we could see Korean Stealth Project participation for the replacement of F-16s but that too would kick-in production by 2025

They are used as advanced trainers. The KFX will be introduced in 2020 so it is very likely F-16s would start to be phased out in that time frame. We kept aging airframes because we had budget issues. Back before we upgraded F-4s we were looking to replace them with F-15s but did not have enough funds to buy them. This is not the case anymore and like i said we need to start to operate inline with European countries and not hang on to outdated and obsolete stuff.


Read this

Maj. Gen. Choi Cha-kyu, director general of the aircraft program bureau at the Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA), said during a forum here Tuesday that Ankara is seriously considering participating in the KF-X program to replace its 180 older F-16 aircraft by 2020.

“Turkey’s air force operates about 180 F-16 aircraft, and there will be a requirement to replace the older fighters with newer ones by 2020,” the two-star Air Force general said. “Once on board, Turkey is expected to bear the same amount of development costs as Indonesia.”

 

[cabatli_53]

Instead of joining such a technologically/financially dangerous aircraft development program with a country who is trying to develop such a big and stealth aircraft at first attempt, I would prefer being an equal partner of %20 share of EuroFighter program with future variant development, exporting and overall life modernization rights. I think KFX offer will make our hands stronger against Eurofighter consertium to take more rights/shares...etc


Eurofighter along with F-35 JSF with Turkish missiles may be deadly strong against every type enemies/threats locating in ME/Europe...

 

[Luftwaffe]

There is no confirm reports of Turkey joining KFX project this is our speculations with much technologies coming from us of a into KFX project.

So again things are back to F-16s till 2025 limited in numbers to be phased out by 2027 by that time with either more numbers of F-35s and more improved Eurofighters. As i said EF-2000 is the only and best option available.

Question is why and when will Turkish Air Force go for EF-2000s.
Secondly why were more F-16s procured why were the current ones not upgraded to Block 52 Standards and a route to EF-2000 not taken which is the best time.

 

[Jigs]

There is no confirm reports of Turkey joining KFX project this is our speculations with much technologies coming from us of a into KFX project.

So again things are back to F-16s till 2025 limited in numbers to be phased out by 2027 by that time with either more numbers of F-35s and more improved Eurofighters. As i said EF-2000 is the only and best option available.

Question is why and when will Turkish Air Force go for EF-2000s.
Secondly why were more F-16s procured why were the current ones not upgraded to Block 52 Standards and a route to EF-2000 not taken which is the best time.

There are a couple things wrong in the post. First where did you get the dates from ? Second our F-16 fleet is currently as we speak undergoing the CCIP upgrade program which will bring them to F-16 Block 50 + standard (with addition of AIM-9X integration). As far as the 30 new F-16s i am critical of this move as we should have gone with Eurofighter or F-15SE or F/A-18E/F or F-16 BLOCK 60 (btw there is no upgrade program to 60 for older F-16s)



The issue i have is us once again dragging out our aircraft for decades before replacement. Our F-16 procurement spanned from 87 to 99 then we put in new orders for 2011 that was a mistake what we should have done was place orders for our next gen aircraft that were already in service and also not update our F-16 fleet instead use that money to replace them. If we wait till your date of 2027 that would mean 30-35+ years for most of the F-16 fleet in service. That is ridiculous.

 

[Luftwaffe]

Thankyou for the updates on F-16s.

The dates I didn't get it from no where I've have assumed just like F-4s life span has been dragged with all those upgrades, with Turkish Air Force going for 100+ F-35s and hands full, and rumors of around 60-70 unknown Fighter Jets requirement beside F-35s, there is a strong possibility number of F-16s remaining till 2025 before being replaced completely. That is 15 Years. We might see a number of F-4s being retired before 2020 bringing those F-16s to take over those squadrons.

The issue i have is us once again dragging out our aircraft for decades before replacement. Our F-16 procurement spanned from 87 to 99 then we put in new orders for 2011 that was a mistake what we should have done was place orders for our next gen aircraft that were already in service and also not update our F-16 fleet instead use that money to replace them. If we wait till your date of 2027 that would mean 30-35+ years for most of the F-16 fleet in service. That is ridiculous.

Agreed..EF-2000 was a perfect replacement or addition by 2011 and on..
I'm afraid that is what it looks like it is going to happen dragging old horses life.

Those extra F-16s should not have been ordered, instead EF-2000 should have been ordered as priority for the Next Gen requirement.
Half of the F-16s fleet upgrades was sufficient.
Number of F-4s should have been replaced with EF-2000, there are 198 F-4s hell lot of them its the best time to replace atleast 80 or 4 squadrons against waiting till 2020.
Who is to blame I don't know..

 

[cabatli_53]

No Eurofighters soon

Turkey's potential decision to raise the number of F-35s to 120 means that it will not buy the rival Eurofighter Typhoon in the near future. "We may consider buying some Eurofighters after 2020," Bayar said. "We don't rule out that option after that year." The Typhoon is being manufactured by the Eurofighter consortium whose members are Britain, Italy, Germany and Spain. The consortium has been seeking to sell at least one squadron of 20 Typhoons to the Turkish Air Force since 2005. Tusas Aerospace Industries, or TAI, and several other Turkish companies have secured contracts to produce F-35 parts worth more than $4 billion, procurement officials say.

Turkey to possibly buy 20 more F-35 fighters - Hurriyet Daily News and Economic Review

2020 and Eurofighter option to replace some obsolete F-16's...

 

[Cerian]

Those extra F-16s should not have been ordered, instead EF-2000 should have been ordered as priority for the Next Gen requirement.
Half of the F-16s fleet upgrades was sufficient.
Number of F-4s should have been replaced with EF-2000, there are 198 F-4s hell lot of them its the best time to replace atleast 80 or 4 squadrons against waiting till 2020.
Who is to blame I don't know..

Probably what everyone misses is the cost of maintenance for a totally new aircraft and lack of flight and maintenance personnel experience comes with it.

 

[Luftwaffe]

That is the translational period one must go though it sooner or later.

Like I said instead of those 30 F-16s, EF-2000s would have been a suitable choice with crews, pilots and associated group getting acquainted with this new limited in number fighter jets slowly close to 2020 increasing the number having enough known how and experience.