Turkish Aviation Programs

[Deliorman]

Bender, while the F35 is flying and operational and deliveries of the plane already started in the US, Israel, Japan, Italy, Norway, Australia and the Netherlands the TFX project is only found on photos, articles and toy planes.

F35 was developed by Lockheed Martin and other companies from around the world. It was develod by the United States (which is the country with the best aviation technologies and experience in the world) and other countries with huge traditions and know how plus Turkey.

The TFX will eventually be developed by TAI with the help in of BAE Systems but Turkey have never built such a huge and sophisticated project. It is one thing to build something under license, to build a UAV or Hurkus and a totally different thing to build a 5th generation stealth fighter jet from scratch and to produce it in big numbers.

 

[kartal1]

Bender, while the F35 is flying and operational and deliveries of the plane already started in the US, Israel, Japan, Italy, Norway, Australia and the Netherlands the TFX project is only found on photos, articles and toy planes.

F35 was developed by Lockheed Martin and other companies from around the world. It was develod by the United States (which is the country with the best aviation technologies and experience in the world) and other countries with huge traditions and know how plus Turkey.

The TFX will eventually be developed by TAI with the help in of BAE Systems but Turkey have never built such a huge and sophisticated project. It is one thing to build something under license, to build a UAV or Hurkus and a totally different thing to build a 5th generation stealth fighter jet from scratch and to produce it in big numbers.

The thing is that the Brits have a need for a new fighters to and I see TFX project like a good opportunity for them also. We can call TFX joint UK-Turkey project. Maybe other version that is around their requirements can be designed with their technology and sub systems. I dont think the Brits will be going only with multirole 5th generation F35s while TFX is a good opportunity and also the potential is very high.

 

[Deliorman]

I know that.
I understand that you are trying to say the F-35 is better than TFX, so that is the point that I am going to respond to.
You see, even the best swiss knife in the world that is produced by the most prestigious knife manufacturer in the world is not better than a combination of a good old fashioned turkish dull knife of a village butcher for cutting cattle and a very simple turkish screwdriver for screwing screws. Especially considering the price (the swiss knife will cost thousands of dollars, and those dollars will go to Switzerland, not to a blacksmith in Turkey).

Similarly even the best multirole fighter in the world (read F35) that is produced by the most prestigious fighter manufacturer in the world is not better than a combination of a good old fashioned turkish dull air superiority fighter (read TFX) for air superiority and a very simple Turkish UCAV for screwing hevals. Especially considering the price (the multirole fighter will cost 100m dollars, and those dollars will go to USA, not to TAI in Turkey).

I understand what you want to say (you prefer a lower quality but made in Turkey rather than best quality made in the US. Self sufficient no matter what...) but you don’t realize two thing:

1. We are talking about high tech 5th generation fighter jets and not about knives or similar pieces of metal.

2. The F35 is here, operating and entering service in more and more air forces around the world (also soon in Turkey) while the TFX is still just a vision, 3-4 digitally made pictures and a few signatures on a piece of paper- nothing more nothing less.

Also the jets will be used for different things and have different roles anyway. The F35 and the future TFX will complement each other on the field as the one is planned as an air superiority fighter while the other has an air to ground role.

 

[kartal1]

I understand what you want to say (you prefer a lower quality but made in Turkey rather than best quality made in the US. Self sufficient no matter what...) but you don’t realize two thing:

1. We are talking about high tech 5th generation fighter jets and not about knives or similar pieces of metal.

2. The F35 is here, operating and entering service in more and more air forces around the world (also soon in Turkey) while the TFX is still just a vision, 3-4 digitally made pictures and a few signatures on a piece of paper- nothing more nothing less.

Also the jets will be used for different things and have different roles anyway. The F35 and the future TFX will complement each other on the field as the one is planned as an air superiority fighter while the other has an air to ground role.

I am sure that we can do it. Turkey have gained experience in aviation. As we know TAI is manufacturing different parts for different serious platforms like F16 and F35 and also civil platforms. The development of high technology sub systems and sophisticated high technology weapons is going perfect. The engine technology is being developed and every day we are getting more and more news about our fast progress on these matters. Also two of the biggest and most respected companies involved in so much programs are taking part in the project and willing to support us in our way. The political will from the two countries is present. Everything is showing us that TFX is going good. I am not sure why is the so pessimistic behavior.

 

[Deliorman]

I am sure that we can do it. Turkey have gained experience in aviation. As we know TAI is manufacturing different parts for different serious platforms like F16 and F35 and also civil platforms. The development of high technology sub systems and sophisticated high technology weapons is going perfect. The engine technology is being developed and every day we are getting more and more news about our fast progress on these matters. Also two of the biggest and most respected companies involved in so much programs are taking part in the project and willing to support us in our way. The political will from the two countries is present. Everything is showing us that TFX is going good. I am not sure why is the so pessimistic behavior.

You are right about Turkey’s increasing capabilities but why do you think I’m pessimistic? I am a realist.

Like in every big project there can always be delays or need of more funding. Look at ANKA and the Altay tank for example which are much smaller and easier projects than the TFX. How many years it took for the one to enter service while the other is not even in serial production yet.

With how many years the F35 project was delayed and how many billions is it over the budget by now? What about the PAK-FA of Russia and India?
Even countries with much bigger resources, economic power and technical and aviational know how like France, Germany (and probably other EU countries are about to join them) have intentions to join forces and develop fighter jets together because it is an expensive and hard work to do. Such projects have delays in 99% of the cases and Turkey is not any different.

Economy in Turkey and things in it’s neighborhood are not going good too and nobody knows if this is not the begging of a huge crash... If that happens everyone can forget about developing such a project, especially combined with all the big military projects that are going on now or planned. Even if it doesn’t stop it forever problems with funding can delay it for many years. By that time 6th gen fighters will be knocking on the door.

Pojivyom- uvidim.

 

[Mr.Department]

the F35 project was delayed

I believe you missed my post. Almost 70% of communal budget for construction was shortened
(zaten yandaslarin cebine giriyordu). This are 18 Billion Türk Lira they will flow only 2018 in TF fighter and its engine. There is no way back.
Believe me there is a secret "mobilization", it can happen also as General Mobilization soon; who knows ?

 

[ozi2000]

 

[-------]

Hurkus-C would be perfect for Janadarma

https://twitter.com/x/status/925315864743817221

 

[kartal1]

Guys I am so amazed from the recent developments that I just cant express my happiness to all of you. Thank you for keeping us in tact with the developments.

 

[Seyfullah]

I hope we can do it as well before they will be retired!

https://twitter.com/x/status/925361721325207553

 

[Pax Ottomana]

Turkey expresses interest in buying F-35B STOVL variant
Kerry Herschelman - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly

Turkey recently expressed to the United States its interest in purchasing the F-35B short take-off/vertical landing (STOVL) version of the Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter, Jane’s has learned from Turkish and Western defence industry sources. This is in addition to the 100 F-35As it already plans to buy from Lockheed Martin.

A senior Turkish Defence Industries undersecretariat official expressed his country’s interest in buying F-35 STOVL variants to Vice Admiral Mathias Winter, head of the US Defense Department’s F-35 programme office, during a meeting held in Ankara in mid-October.

It is unclear how many F-35B STOVL variants Turkey intends to buy.

http://www.janes.com/article/75300/turkey-expresses-interest-in-buying-f-35b-stovl-variant

 

[monitor]

Turkey expresses interest in buying F-35B STOVL variant
Kerry Herschelman - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly

Turkey recently expressed to the United States its interest in purchasing the F-35B short take-off/vertical landing (STOVL) version of the Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter, Jane’s has learned from Turkish and Western defence industry sources. This is in addition to the 100 F-35As it already plans to buy from Lockheed Martin.

A senior Turkish Defence Industries undersecretariat official expressed his country’s interest in buying F-35 STOVL variants to Vice Admiral Mathias Winter, head of the US Defense Department’s F-35 programme office, during a meeting held in Ankara in mid-October.

It is unclear how many F-35B STOVL variants Turkey intends to buy.

http://www.janes.com/article/75300/turkey-expresses-interest-in-buying-f-35b-stovl-variant

Upcoming Turkish LPD have the capacity to carry not less than 18 fighter so I think the number will be around 20~25 .

 

[Pax Ottomana]

Upcoming Turkish LPD have the capacity to carry not less than 18 fighter so I think the number will be around 20~25 .

I believe it can only accommodate 8 maximum but they're more likely to use the flight deck/hangars for a combination of 4-5 fighters and some helicopters/drones. So I doubt they're looking at ordering more than 12 unless they have a second LHD in mind. But given the current cold relations between the US & Turkey I don't think an actual order would be placed before 2019, which would push the delivery to 2022/2023. Still, I for one, am keeping my fingers crossed that it happens.

 

[monitor]

I believe it can only accommodate 8 maximum but they're more likely to use the flight deck/hangars for a combination of 4-5 fighters and some helicopters/drones. So I doubt they're looking at ordering more than 12 unless they have a second LHD in mind. But given the current cold relations between the US & Turkey I don't think an actual order would be placed before 2019, which would push the delivery to 2022/2023. Still, I for one, am keeping my fingers crossed that it happens.

After completion of first I think there are possibility they will go for another platform As Turkish regional competitors are all upgrading their fleet.

 

[OguzSenturk]

I think 12 of them will be stationed on 2 LHDs (6+6), and 4 of them will be stationed in airbase in İzmir for training purpose, and there would be 16 at total.